Sorry Marce . I did it to enliven the debate . I do think it very logical to use solid core and the transformer version at that . I keep an open mind about the cables . The burn in time I take as distinctly possible . I use that in a way which might be helpful to others . If I reinstall a system of aged components I always say I will live with it for some time before passing judgement . For reasons I feel not to be psychological the system does seem to improve and soften . I can not say for sure it is cables . I use the example of used equipment as I feel that says not the equipment breaking in . Often the speaker location has not been changed .
I often use WD40 to clean switches . I am sure some would be very alarmed . It seems to work and dare I say sounds good ? Usually before that the switch was just about functional . Not done for Audiophile reasons . Quad told me they used it . They discovered it by accident and preferred it to Servisol the usual cleaner .
I do believe the correct grade of solid core can give a small bonus at very low cost . Bass might be 1 to 2.5 mm . Mid 0.6 mm . Top 0.25 mm . Universal 0.6 mm . As I said previously I feel the HF to be altered by solid core . It works when added to multi core so is a nice defect of the solid core if you like ( some say the multi changes it irreversibly , I don't think that is true ) . Naim cable was a multi made of about 0.5 mm strands . It works well .
Nordost is a flattened solid core in something like PTFE . I think I was told it is aircraft high temperature cable ? The OFC being useful to resist cracking ( work hardening ) .
BTW . I was told scientists try to disprove everything new . It is an obsession or hobby to some . Sometimes good science is lost for long periods of time due to this . The person who said it , said it is the duty of a scientist to disprove new ideas ( Peer Review ) . The idea is that science is a sort of a school playground where your toughness is tested . That is understandable . It does make some look a bit daft when the truth is uncovered . There is now a debate about Steady State and Big Bang . Steady State was perhaps too quickly rejected ? Perhaps not enough bullying of Big Bang ? Quasars are the stumbling block . Their red shift not correct for where they seem to be . Doubtless a quirk ? Inconvenient quirk .
Speaker cables is not big science . I feel we can be a bit imaginative and perhaps save money ?
I often use WD40 to clean switches . I am sure some would be very alarmed . It seems to work and dare I say sounds good ? Usually before that the switch was just about functional . Not done for Audiophile reasons . Quad told me they used it . They discovered it by accident and preferred it to Servisol the usual cleaner .
I do believe the correct grade of solid core can give a small bonus at very low cost . Bass might be 1 to 2.5 mm . Mid 0.6 mm . Top 0.25 mm . Universal 0.6 mm . As I said previously I feel the HF to be altered by solid core . It works when added to multi core so is a nice defect of the solid core if you like ( some say the multi changes it irreversibly , I don't think that is true ) . Naim cable was a multi made of about 0.5 mm strands . It works well .
Nordost is a flattened solid core in something like PTFE . I think I was told it is aircraft high temperature cable ? The OFC being useful to resist cracking ( work hardening ) .
BTW . I was told scientists try to disprove everything new . It is an obsession or hobby to some . Sometimes good science is lost for long periods of time due to this . The person who said it , said it is the duty of a scientist to disprove new ideas ( Peer Review ) . The idea is that science is a sort of a school playground where your toughness is tested . That is understandable . It does make some look a bit daft when the truth is uncovered . There is now a debate about Steady State and Big Bang . Steady State was perhaps too quickly rejected ? Perhaps not enough bullying of Big Bang ? Quasars are the stumbling block . Their red shift not correct for where they seem to be . Doubtless a quirk ? Inconvenient quirk .
Speaker cables is not big science . I feel we can be a bit imaginative and perhaps save money ?
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I agree with that . However in cooking we trust our senses . Cooking can be made into a science . My friend Dr Roger Trowbridge was responsible for Mars ice cream . There it has to be a science as it must be repeatable . Also very little of the ice cream is the same as the Mars bar . It was getting the taste at low temperature that was difficult . Roger looks after the British harmonica society , former member Larry Adler . Roger is happy listening to things , his wife a musician .
Gave Roger a plug as no one knows he did that . He didn't think it a big deal .
WD-40 is a Water Displacement formula. Leaves a film so it helps exclude air. I actually hate it for some things as the residue gets gummy over time. I can see it would be a reasonable treatment. I use Boeing T9.
If a theory can't be disproved, it is not proven, but it does lend a lot of weight to the theory. A lot of modern science is based on non-disproved theory. Take dark matter for example. Can't show it is not there, but not really sure it is either. Just a good way to explain what we see. BTW, I am not aware of anyone taking steady state seriously right now. Is their a layman discussion of this somewhere?
If a theory can't be disproved, it is not proven, but it does lend a lot of weight to the theory. A lot of modern science is based on non-disproved theory. Take dark matter for example. Can't show it is not there, but not really sure it is either. Just a good way to explain what we see. BTW, I am not aware of anyone taking steady state seriously right now. Is their a layman discussion of this somewhere?
The steady state supporters look to Quasars . This NASA statement seems to me to say they understand the doubt . As I said a quirk most likely . I was just surprised how quickly Fred Hoyle was deposed in science . It is rare . You can imagine others are far more adamant that Quasars disprove the Big Bang . Thinking carefully , Steady State makes more sense ( infinity needs no explanation ) . However some expansion of the universe seems reasonable . I always say and I hope people will fill in the gap , things are not black and white they are shades of colour .
The strangest part of this is the disprovers seem to be Bible bashers . They should read more carefully . I always got the impression BB was just page 1 retold ( how lazy is that ) . Therefore I do believe BB as it seems to be endorsed by thinkers of the past .
Quasar redshifts and distance
Quasar redshifts and distance
Forgive double link .
The strangest part of this is the disprovers seem to be Bible bashers . They should read more carefully . I always got the impression BB was just page 1 retold ( how lazy is that ) . Therefore I do believe BB as it seems to be endorsed by thinkers of the past .
Quasar redshifts and distance
Quasar redshifts and distance
Forgive double link .
I found a reasonable version on the debate of Quasars .
Could Quasars Disprove Time Dilation?
To remind others . Cables might need time to settle and our science may not say why . It costs nothing to think they might . If big science is in doubt why not ours ?
Could Quasars Disprove Time Dilation?
To remind others . Cables might need time to settle and our science may not say why . It costs nothing to think they might . If big science is in doubt why not ours ?
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Nigel, you've been warned repeatedly about religious discussion. Cut it out. Period.Back to cable break-in, what does it do? in simple scientific terms, because as I have said before there is ONLY the esoteric audio community that promote and use cable break in or burn in.
Fact is its a load of hog wash, re-read this thread from the begining and assess the factual evidence (all aginst) and the pseudo physics (for).
Fact is its a load of hog wash, re-read this thread from the begining and assess the factual evidence (all aginst) and the pseudo physics (for).
I am at a loss to understand why something that costs nothing is controversial ? It might be imagination , I don't know .
When I mega tested my mains cables in my house and discharged them I was very surprised to find a voyage there some days later ( my new cabling before inspection ) . My brother joked and said I had done a good job as the resistance to Earth was high ( 12 Meg in new plaster ) . He asked me if I did not know of dielectric absorbion ? I did yet thought it only about electrolytic's . Not so and I had proven it . I think someone did say about this so sorry to repeat it . However when discovering it for myself I was surprised ! Polypropylene capacitors are said to be more effected by this than paper ( memory ) . Perhaps why paper still has it's fans . I am told cotton is a dielectric of choice if compatible with use .
Not science as I have not invested money to find out . I doubt anyone else has ?
When I mega tested my mains cables in my house and discharged them I was very surprised to find a voyage there some days later ( my new cabling before inspection ) . My brother joked and said I had done a good job as the resistance to Earth was high ( 12 Meg in new plaster ) . He asked me if I did not know of dielectric absorbion ? I did yet thought it only about electrolytic's . Not so and I had proven it . I think someone did say about this so sorry to repeat it . However when discovering it for myself I was surprised ! Polypropylene capacitors are said to be more effected by this than paper ( memory ) . Perhaps why paper still has it's fans . I am told cotton is a dielectric of choice if compatible with use .
Not science as I have not invested money to find out . I doubt anyone else has ?
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How do I give you the science that says why I like Ravel mostly more than Beethoven ? And the science that you perhaps you don't ? I must say my choice is a close run thing between the two and perhaps daft to even say I have a preference , Apples and Aardvarks come to mind .
Someone told me Ravel is dreadful music . I said that's why no one ever plays it especially Radio 3 where I was listening . I will accept it is not everyones cup of tea . Someone might say the science of music says Beethoven is better . If so I will stick to cooking . I might have a listen if no one is around to the String Quartets ( 1966 Quartetto Italiano Philips ) . I would hate to be wrong or unfashionable .
Best I could find of now . Not easy music . I would like to think cables well used before playing this . I think it was rejected by Ravel's teacher when a gift for being " music at ones nerves ends " . In all seriousness little things being wrong can narrow your window of loving music . Why disapprove of something at no cost which might just be true ? Surely an open mind is not the worst quality you could have ? I have one , I am glad to think I might imagine it . I don't imagine I love music .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhN0RRlLhDg&feature=related
Someone told me Ravel is dreadful music . I said that's why no one ever plays it especially Radio 3 where I was listening . I will accept it is not everyones cup of tea . Someone might say the science of music says Beethoven is better . If so I will stick to cooking . I might have a listen if no one is around to the String Quartets ( 1966 Quartetto Italiano Philips ) . I would hate to be wrong or unfashionable .
Best I could find of now . Not easy music . I would like to think cables well used before playing this . I think it was rejected by Ravel's teacher when a gift for being " music at ones nerves ends " . In all seriousness little things being wrong can narrow your window of loving music . Why disapprove of something at no cost which might just be true ? Surely an open mind is not the worst quality you could have ? I have one , I am glad to think I might imagine it . I don't imagine I love music .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhN0RRlLhDg&feature=related
No its not.
Placebo, expectation bias, conformation bias etc are all well known in science.
Remember that we can measure the spin of a single electron without "burn in".
Funny you should say about him . He was accused of being a bit slapdash in his time . Alan Blumlein was a great cable designer . It is said talking in Switzerland only possible by his work ( telephone cables next to electric trains and electrical noise ) . For all that was known at the time Blumlein made it work . He couldn't write very well so perhaps would never have used our forum if still alive .
We who disliked CD were called Flat Earther's . I felt proud to be that and the World is flat in ways we depend upon . Gradually those who said digital to be perfect were laughed at by scientists also . Much better digital followed albeit then pushed back by MP3 . Never assume the person who will not use science is unacquainted with it .
Pasteur was known to be wrong . He needed a very excellent proof to be believed ( swan neck flask open to the air ) . The Bordeaux wine industry gambled on him being right and never looked back . How many died who might have been saved ?
Heaviside was slapdash with his maths, but his physics was fine. This is, of course, an irrelevant side-issue, as is DA in wire insulators. Why do people always bring up irrelevant side-issues when asked for evidence of cable burn-in?
(DA is a linear low frequency phenomenon. The worst it can do is feed back the average DC voltage back into a high impedance circuit. A speaker cable is a low impedance circuit with zero average DC level, so DA can do nothing.)
(DA is a linear low frequency phenomenon. The worst it can do is feed back the average DC voltage back into a high impedance circuit. A speaker cable is a low impedance circuit with zero average DC level, so DA can do nothing.)
As I said it is so harmless to think it might be true . Spend money ? Me neither .
Homeopathic medicine is a more difficulty subject . I am glad we never tried too hard to justify these things . I do sincerely think my 0.6 mm solid core a good thing to use . I would imagine OFC not too extravagant . It is said all cable made after 1930 is close to OFC . It made cable production faster . If it makes no difference then it will do you no harm and will save you money . If it has too much resistance ( which I doubt ) choose differently .
I meant no disrespect to Heaviside , the reverse in fact . I like slapdash in maths . My brother invented an easy way to design RIAA circuits which are +/-0.1 dB correct . It took me a few days to get the bumps out without using the usual formulea to be better . I then reused his method for the other EQ's ( 78's ) . Like a fool I never wrote it down properly . Basically what he said was say a capacitor is open circuit at frequency X and 0 ohms when frequency Y . He then had a fiddle factor to get it mostly right . He dreamed it up on the spot to get me started . It was so good as not to need fixing . He knew the correct maths . He is now gone .
This was a similar debate . I saved much money reading this . COG ceramics can be used in RIAA circuits , I wouldn't dare before . Please read it as it is useful ( a series ) .
http://www.waynekirkwood.com/Images/pdf/Cyril_Bateman/Bateman_Notes_Cap_Sound_1.pdf
Homeopathic medicine is a more difficulty subject . I am glad we never tried too hard to justify these things . I do sincerely think my 0.6 mm solid core a good thing to use . I would imagine OFC not too extravagant . It is said all cable made after 1930 is close to OFC . It made cable production faster . If it makes no difference then it will do you no harm and will save you money . If it has too much resistance ( which I doubt ) choose differently .
I meant no disrespect to Heaviside , the reverse in fact . I like slapdash in maths . My brother invented an easy way to design RIAA circuits which are +/-0.1 dB correct . It took me a few days to get the bumps out without using the usual formulea to be better . I then reused his method for the other EQ's ( 78's ) . Like a fool I never wrote it down properly . Basically what he said was say a capacitor is open circuit at frequency X and 0 ohms when frequency Y . He then had a fiddle factor to get it mostly right . He dreamed it up on the spot to get me started . It was so good as not to need fixing . He knew the correct maths . He is now gone .
This was a similar debate . I saved much money reading this . COG ceramics can be used in RIAA circuits , I wouldn't dare before . Please read it as it is useful ( a series ) .
http://www.waynekirkwood.com/Images/pdf/Cyril_Bateman/Bateman_Notes_Cap_Sound_1.pdf
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So why can't this thread die? People want something for nothing that's why. Thinking is too much work.
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