This is my first time messing with active components, and as such, I find myself needing an amplifier. (and thereby, suggestions for which ones might suit my needs) I don't need an integrated amplifier - although I'd not turn it away, if it was a good way to do the job.
Basically, I need between 4 (for now) and 8 (for later) channels. I'm about half-way through a build of the Zaph ZRT 2-way kit, which I have now decided that I'll build active. So I have put off buying the drivers until I find a suitable strategy.
I'm sure lots of people have been down this road. My search yielded mostly low wattage amps that won't do me any good. So I'm here for suggestions.
4-8 channels on a budget. If the amp had DSP, I'd consider that, since it would offset the cost of a DSP for each speaker.
Thank you.
Basically, I need between 4 (for now) and 8 (for later) channels. I'm about half-way through a build of the Zaph ZRT 2-way kit, which I have now decided that I'll build active. So I have put off buying the drivers until I find a suitable strategy.
I'm sure lots of people have been down this road. My search yielded mostly low wattage amps that won't do me any good. So I'm here for suggestions.
4-8 channels on a budget. If the amp had DSP, I'd consider that, since it would offset the cost of a DSP for each speaker.
Thank you.
as 'diy' kits, an audiophile design, with a dedicated power supply and pre amp.
You will find the 3 projects: I personally like those designs, I wouldn't hesitate to buy their kits:
Novotone - 13 Amplificateur a tubes 6L6GC - SACD et Home Cinema - PP UL - 5x24 Weff
You will find the 3 projects: I personally like those designs, I wouldn't hesitate to buy their kits:
Novotone - 13 Amplificateur a tubes 6L6GC - SACD et Home Cinema - PP UL - 5x24 Weff
As I'm currently part way through a project of a pair of mono-block ACA1.1 ( or whatever Nelson and crew decide to silkscreen on the next batches of PCB 
) that'd be my first suggestion.
But as the modest putative power output might still dissuade some, the next thing that comes to mind for a modest budget and almost brain-dead simple build - hey, if I couldn't mess it up, it must be - might be along the lines of some of the multi-channel class D boards offered by Parts Express. In my own case, it was a Sure TK2050 4x100W - well, OK, that's at 4 ohms, with a stiff tail breeze, etc - but with a total cost of just under $100 US with the Meanwell NES 350SMPS, it was more than sufficient for my application. Hell, a decent chassis and the requisite inputs / speaker terminals could easily cost more. Anyways, something to think about.
For DSP for crossover / EQ , I think miniDSP would be the way to go - they do of course offer a series of ICE powered amps with full DSP, and up to 16 channels, but how deep is your wallet?
) that'd be my first suggestion. But as the modest putative power output might still dissuade some, the next thing that comes to mind for a modest budget and almost brain-dead simple build - hey, if I couldn't mess it up, it must be - might be along the lines of some of the multi-channel class D boards offered by Parts Express. In my own case, it was a Sure TK2050 4x100W - well, OK, that's at 4 ohms, with a stiff tail breeze, etc - but with a total cost of just under $100 US with the Meanwell NES 350SMPS, it was more than sufficient for my application. Hell, a decent chassis and the requisite inputs / speaker terminals could easily cost more. Anyways, something to think about.
For DSP for crossover / EQ , I think miniDSP would be the way to go - they do of course offer a series of ICE powered amps with full DSP, and up to 16 channels, but how deep is your wallet?
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I'm still a little confused by "integrated" amp. What's the difference between an "integrated" and "non-integrated"? Is it just that you have a choice of inputs?
I wish I had some electronics building skill. I would love to patch together a cheap amp. Got any links to newb amp building resources? Help me avoid the pains of learning what's already known... LOL
I'm seeing that I can get Onkyo M-5010 for $245 at Amazon. I'm tempted to get 2 of these, and call it a day. But I mustn't. Not yet.
I wish I had some electronics building skill. I would love to patch together a cheap amp. Got any links to newb amp building resources? Help me avoid the pains of learning what's already known... LOL
I'm seeing that I can get Onkyo M-5010 for $245 at Amazon. I'm tempted to get 2 of these, and call it a day. But I mustn't. Not yet.
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I guess the definition of a(ny?) term depends on whom you speak to. In my over 50yrs of addiction to this hobby, "integrated" referred to an amplifier with not only multiple inputs, but the EQ and additional gain stages necessary to equalize sources such as various phonograph sources ( there were quite a few before RIAA became the default standard), tape head, microphone - etc. to a standard line level, then perhaps tone controls, loudness compensation, and finally system master volume . Of course, throw in switching for multiple pairs of speakers, and the raw power amplification stage might well be the simplest part of all to do well.
The question you need to ask yourself is just exactly how many channels of amplification, and how much flexibility of signal processing over each does your particular application require. That's not necessarily as easy a question to answer as to pose.
The cited Onkyo looks to be a nice enough piece - I'm quite pleased with my current HT receiver with that name on the front, but you'd still need some degree of front end control / signal processing.
The question you need to ask yourself is just exactly how many channels of amplification, and how much flexibility of signal processing over each does your particular application require. That's not necessarily as easy a question to answer as to pose.
The cited Onkyo looks to be a nice enough piece - I'm quite pleased with my current HT receiver with that name on the front, but you'd still need some degree of front end control / signal processing.
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Rather than edit my above post, I'll note that in the current Onkyo line-up, that based on simple power output alone, the closest integrated equivalent to the 9010 would be the A9050 - for approx twice the cost of the basic amp stage you get a complete pre-amp - with stereo pre and mono sub-woofer out, a probably not at all hurtful Wolfson DAC in one box - and a remote control.
Well, assuming again the mantle of crusty old fart, for me a receiver always meant stereo - i.e. 2 channel - integrated amp, with the addition of an AM/FM tuner stage. Many had pre-amp out / main-in loops that would allow insertion of signal processing black boxes - crossovers, dynamic range compander, etc and the ability to drive signal to external power amps. But until the advent of HT / multi-channel receivers with DSP, most did not provide for the type of crossover filtering I think you have in mind - and even among the last decade's or so crop of models, there's not a lot that provide for external inputs to the onboard multiple amp stages. For a short period of time before Atmos became the latest best thing, there were some select models of multi-channel (HT) receivers that used some of the processing power of their DSP chips to allow for full digital XO and bi-amping of the front main L&R speakers - at the slight sacrifice of losing one pair of the front surround effects channels. I happen to own one, an Onkyo TX NR818, and that feature works like a charm, and is fully auto calibrating.
I'll go back to the question of how much signal processing does your particular application require. If you've not settled on your final system design, that'll be hard to nail down.
Assuming you've determined that you definitely require something like DSP - or other method of crossover / EQ, your good ol' Denon might be able to serve as the tuner / pre-amp, and perhaps one pair of amp channels, but you'll need not only the DSP, or other XO/EQ soluiton, but at least 2 more channels of power. The 9010 would be as good a candidate for that as any.
As Shell Busey would say - "It's just that easy"
I'll go back to the question of how much signal processing does your particular application require. If you've not settled on your final system design, that'll be hard to nail down.
Assuming you've determined that you definitely require something like DSP - or other method of crossover / EQ, your good ol' Denon might be able to serve as the tuner / pre-amp, and perhaps one pair of amp channels, but you'll need not only the DSP, or other XO/EQ soluiton, but at least 2 more channels of power. The 9010 would be as good a candidate for that as any.
As Shell Busey would say - "It's just that easy"
Instead of getting two integrateds, look at the multi-channel options out there:
- Emotiva makes the XPA series expandable amps (you can buy additional channel modules up to 11 channels in a single chassis): Amps – Page 2 – Emotiva Audio Corporation
- 2x Class D Audio 4ch amps: 4 Channel Amplifiers: Class D Audio
- Roll your own using pre-made modules. Takes only enough electronics skill to solder pre-made wiring harnesses into PCBs: Hypex Electronics webshop (check the UcD series)
- same as above with Anaview modules Six channel DIY Anaview AMS0100 amplifier (available through Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components )
If that’s too expensive, the Sure modules from PartsExpress or even their “Class T” amps like https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dta-120-class-t-mini-amplifier-60-wpc--300-3800 or https://www.parts-express.com/toppi...2-50wpc-(80wpc-4-ohm)-mini-amplifier--310-326 should do.
- Emotiva makes the XPA series expandable amps (you can buy additional channel modules up to 11 channels in a single chassis): Amps – Page 2 – Emotiva Audio Corporation
- 2x Class D Audio 4ch amps: 4 Channel Amplifiers: Class D Audio
- Roll your own using pre-made modules. Takes only enough electronics skill to solder pre-made wiring harnesses into PCBs: Hypex Electronics webshop (check the UcD series)
- same as above with Anaview modules Six channel DIY Anaview AMS0100 amplifier (available through Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components )
If that’s too expensive, the Sure modules from PartsExpress or even their “Class T” amps like https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dta-120-class-t-mini-amplifier-60-wpc--300-3800 or https://www.parts-express.com/toppi...2-50wpc-(80wpc-4-ohm)-mini-amplifier--310-326 should do.
what do you mean by DSP?
I would check Marantz NR1608 , got everything you can think about. Just add your 5 speakers and sub.
If you want to control the source with dsp you can do this with a computer with a software and stream in audio via wifi pc /blutooth if mac.
Personally I don't find DSP hifi at all but can be ok for watching tv and movies with great sound effects.
I would check Marantz NR1608 , got everything you can think about. Just add your 5 speakers and sub.
If you want to control the source with dsp you can do this with a computer with a software and stream in audio via wifi pc /blutooth if mac.
Personally I don't find DSP hifi at all but can be ok for watching tv and movies with great sound effects.
I agree with chrisb - I have used the Sure TK2050 4-channel with $100 mini-DSP for a 2-way build. Worked really well - surpassed my expectations really. With the newer miniDSP models - you can add a remote and have "integrated volume" built in to your design.
I would buy 2 of the amp boards - a good 350-500w power supply and 2-2x4 miniDSP (couple models to choose from - your choice what best suits your needs and price range) a chassis and bits and pieces to wire it up... You're Done!
Sounds like a great project!
That amp might sound good but
a. that isn't a class D amp, it's A/B (minor flaw probably) but the small U-profile is a bad excuse for a heatsink, even for the LM3886s and at medium-high levels it's too small.
b. he needs crossover and equalizing, not sub/sat crossover. That kit does not have any flexibility regarding the crossover frequency, it needs to be changed via a module and there is no explanation on how to do it yourself, and each module costs 5$ extra. And not only does that increase that the costs very quickly (especally since every change in the XO results in 4-8x 5$, which means 20-40 bucks just for a try), there is also no way to equalize the f-response and no, the EQ of a AVR isn't enough, it has to be per channel.
c. the crossover is for active crossing over a sat pretty much useless since there are only 2 vaiable options which are multiples (= a whole octave) of 100Hz or 500Hz which is WAY too crude for developing speakers.
You want to go active, that means, you need one channel per driver, as in DSP and in amplifier. That in turn means, for 4 sat you'd need 8 of each or 16 of each for your extended planning. If you are considering 30$ per amp (without power supply), that's already 240$, plus the power supplies, plus the enclosures which comes to about 500 even more. And you'll need the DSP, cables, plugs, fuses, screws, switches and other small parts etc on top of that. I don't know if that's 'budget' for you anymore.
If you want to go on a real budget, I'd suggest you go for the cheap TDA8932 boards (they were even a lot cheaper a while ago though) or TPA3116/TPA3118 boards. Both have their threads here in the forums, I personally prefer the TDA8932 (on 8 Ohm). You have still the option to swap them out later on.
And for a PS the cheap SMPSs, I've used these myself and they work nicely, you can use them for bigger amp boards too. But if that's too expensive, use these. Both can support two modules each, the bigger one even two (or a stereo) bigger amp.
BUT that's all only an option if you are able to develop speakers yourself! That means, you have to use measurement tools and mic, measurement experience, read, understand, compare response-, phase- and angle measurements and recognize the flaws. Just pointing the mic and pressing a button isn't enough by a far cry. If you did not confidently said loudly 'YES!' on each point, go passive for the speakers, active will not sound better, rather the opposite, 80% (or more) of the sound depends on the crossover (passive) or setting (active).
Yes, it would probably be a VERY good idea to increase the heatsink size. Most inexpensive dual power amps don't even include ANY heat-sinking, so....
Obviously you did not bother to read the on-line available manual to see that a crossover calculator is provided; it's VERY easy to figure values for any crossover frequency and you can change 10¢ resistors as much as you want; there's NO need to buy additional modules.
You mean, that's like just a BIT pregnant?
Don't indirectly lie to your customers and keep silent about the heatsinks! You'll need others anyway, why not be honest and tell in advance? This way the customer is unsatisfied or even angry, the production was more expensive than needed, there is likely no real use for a that big and bad heatsink anymore and the package is bigger than needed. Why not save the drama?I've looked onto the page, the page of the crossover and the page of the modules. Then I looked onto the schematics. No, I did not spend even more time reading. Okay, you are right, you do not need to spend that much on the modules but at that point it was already clear they aren't suitable for developing speakers anyway since you don't have any flexibility in the crossover slope or even use asynchron electrical slopes and especally no chance to do a quick A/B comparison or EQ them or do a phase align/delay. And you'll waste even more time re-soldering the modules once you realize you want to change more.
They might be nice for an existing sub/sat system which got a linear sat though.
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Personally had a huge problems with those guys because must replace bad AMS0100 amplifier, even lowers ware involved.. I would stay a way from Anaview products looks like they have internal problems as well.
It happens do own Hypex UcD3xMP module as well,sweetest and quite amp in the word . They not power houses by any means but...sound reproduction precise and natural ,no colouration any kind .
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