This thread might be of an interest in a current discussion: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17641&highlight=
Wheat and Chaff
I participate in these forums for two reasons:
1) To lend a hand when I can, especially regarding areas where I have specialized experience (such as FETs and zero feedback).
2) To be stimulated with new ideas. I have been designing solid-state amplifiers full-time for 14 years now, but there are definitely nuggets to be found here from time-to-time.
One example of a nugget has been from CarlosFM's numerous "snubber" threads. While this was largely dismissed by the "science-minded" on these forums, that turned out to be a great point of departure for me. I ended up not using the snubbers, but in exploring their obvious sonic effects I ended up learning a *lot* about power supplies and bypass capacitors.
Reading Bobken's two most recent posts on this thread, I must say that this has *far* more useful information condensed into one spot than anything else I have ever read at diyAudio. This is a true treasure trove, and one would be wise to avail oneself of it.
In the meanwhile, nearly burying this treasure are scores of useless comments. These comments are essentially immature boasts of "I know more than you". Of course the irony is that these posts merely demonstrate the ignorance of the poster.
The sad thing is that these immature, boastful posts are severely damaging the value of diyAudio. As the signal-to-noise ratio continues to deteriorate, fewer people will partcipate in a meaningful way.
rec.audio.high-end, anyone?
I participate in these forums for two reasons:
1) To lend a hand when I can, especially regarding areas where I have specialized experience (such as FETs and zero feedback).
2) To be stimulated with new ideas. I have been designing solid-state amplifiers full-time for 14 years now, but there are definitely nuggets to be found here from time-to-time.
One example of a nugget has been from CarlosFM's numerous "snubber" threads. While this was largely dismissed by the "science-minded" on these forums, that turned out to be a great point of departure for me. I ended up not using the snubbers, but in exploring their obvious sonic effects I ended up learning a *lot* about power supplies and bypass capacitors.
Reading Bobken's two most recent posts on this thread, I must say that this has *far* more useful information condensed into one spot than anything else I have ever read at diyAudio. This is a true treasure trove, and one would be wise to avail oneself of it.
In the meanwhile, nearly burying this treasure are scores of useless comments. These comments are essentially immature boasts of "I know more than you". Of course the irony is that these posts merely demonstrate the ignorance of the poster.
The sad thing is that these immature, boastful posts are severely damaging the value of diyAudio. As the signal-to-noise ratio continues to deteriorate, fewer people will partcipate in a meaningful way.
rec.audio.high-end, anyone?
Banned
Joined 2002
Re: Wheat and Chaff
I can see it more and more less people coming here because people are posting rudly and causing people to not be happy. Move to another forum you say.. Definaly going look into it . It's bs how much of this slander and put downs i see in here all over. This place used to be a such a good place but now people are just ruening it.
Just my 2 cent's.
Jase
Charles Hansen said:
I can see it more and more less people coming here because people are posting rudly and causing people to not be happy. Move to another forum you say.. Definaly going look into it . It's bs how much of this slander and put downs i see in here all over. This place used to be a such a good place but now people are just ruening it.
Just my 2 cent's.
Jase
ENOUGH!
OK, enough!
Time to do a simple experiment. Bringing my amplifier into vibration and listening to a piece of critical music. Frescobaldi Keyboard Works, Robert Woolley, EMI CDC7477352
I simply laid a 135W drilling machine on the top of the heatsink of my GAS Ampzilla amplifier. I could feel the whole amp vibrate with my hand.
I did not hear any difference. (BTW the amp is in a closet)
Now that I don't hear not any difference could be due to: (take your pick)
1) I have defective or poor hearing
2) My stereo is too primitive
3) The experiment is set up poorly!
4) I don't want to hear any difference!
5) My Ampzilla is not a chip-amp
6) Music fragment is chosen wrong
I invite anyone to perform similar experiments.
OK, enough!
Time to do a simple experiment. Bringing my amplifier into vibration and listening to a piece of critical music. Frescobaldi Keyboard Works, Robert Woolley, EMI CDC7477352
I simply laid a 135W drilling machine on the top of the heatsink of my GAS Ampzilla amplifier. I could feel the whole amp vibrate with my hand.
I did not hear any difference. (BTW the amp is in a closet)
Now that I don't hear not any difference could be due to: (take your pick)
1) I have defective or poor hearing
2) My stereo is too primitive
3) The experiment is set up poorly!
4) I don't want to hear any difference!
5) My Ampzilla is not a chip-amp
6) Music fragment is chosen wrong
I invite anyone to perform similar experiments.
Banned
Joined 2002
Re: ENOUGH!
Thanks for posting that.
good job..
WHat i dont believe is that a different colored heat sink will cause the sound to be better Boo hiss on that..
If that is the case then my red car is faster than your yellow car even tho they are the exact same car same model and only one digit off on the s/n number..
Like come on. the color of your heat sink has somethnig to do with sound.
Fastening the caps down and the parts that i can see having a effect, having better cables has a effect.. but not the color of the heat sink's.
Elso Kwak said:OK, enough!
Time to do a simple experiment. Bringing my amplifier into vibration and listening to a piece of critical music. Frescobaldi Keyboard Works, Robert Woolley, EMI CDC7477352
I simply laid a 135W drilling machine on the top of the heatsink of my GAS Ampzilla amplifier. I could feel the whole amp vibrate with my hand.
I did not hear any difference. (BTW the amp is in a closet)
Now that I don't hear not any difference could be due to: (take your pick)
1) I have defective or poor hearing
2) My stereo is too primitive
3) The experiment is set up poorly!
4) I don't want to hear any difference!
5) My Ampzilla is not a chip-amp
6) Music fragment is chosen wrong
I invite anyone to perform similar experiments.
Thanks for posting that.
good job..WHat i dont believe is that a different colored heat sink will cause the sound to be better Boo hiss on that..
If that is the case then my red car is faster than your yellow car even tho they are the exact same car same model and only one digit off on the s/n number..
Like come on. the color of your heat sink has somethnig to do with sound.
Fastening the caps down and the parts that i can see having a effect, having better cables has a effect.. but not the color of the heat sink's.
Speak for yourself..pneuma said:
It's the unique ones that are the most fun..
That is of course, a healthy position to take. And I personally have no problem with it. Nor, with the position which is taken by others like Bobken. He believes he hears differences, which is fine..pneuma said:
I would take exception to several displays I've seen here. Calling or inferring others as being stupid or imagining, or whatever. It is of no value to do so.
I also take exception to explanations which fail to meet any scientific rigor. To me, spouting made up nonsense is a digression to the stone age, and must be identified as nonsense, and corrected.
But during that waiting period, perhaps it is best not ridiculing others. His observations may be suspect, brought on by wishful thinking, or they may indeed be valid.pneuma said:
I pointed out the proximity based error is indeed something that was noticed back in the 70's. And yet some still think it's hogwash..
Obviously, some topics will never resolve, so does that require hostility?
Cheers, John
Though I am in the camp of not thinking there is a sonic heat sink effect, with the level to which Peter has refined his amps, I would be hard pressed to say that Peter hasn't done his homework. If, however, Peter said that he changed the geometry of the chips in the case, used a different shielding material for the case, and ran the chips at a different temperature, how many people would say outright that the changes couldn't have an audible effect? We may still be skeptical, or question the magnitude of the effect. . . .jneutron said:
I liken the effects observed by Peter to the geometric and electronic effects that could be caused by merely changing Peter's typical geometry and case. I have been pretty vocal in the gainclone speakercable thread advocating objctive testing to verify perceived sonic effects, and would like to advocate the same thing here, but admittedly I have not tried out a range of enclosures or heatsinks (like I have speaker cables) to see for myself if I can see an effect. I remain skeptical, and I would advocate more testing both by those saying the effect is real and those who say it isn't!
That being said, what is the point of NOT using brass/bronze for case or heatsink material? The most straighrforward argument against silly
speaker cables is that the cost detracts from money you could be spending on other, more important aspects of your system. Brass bar stock, on the other hand, is relatively cheap and can be incorporated into an existing case with minimal time and effort. Why NOT try it??? I'm going to when I get a chance! Do I expect to HEAR an effect? Not at all! I expect my brass and lexan case to sound exactly like my aluminum and copper case. But it will sure be fun and then I can see if there is an effect for myself. Give me a few months to finish everything and I will chime back in with some more objective observations.
Until then, I have only heard from a handfull of people who HAVE used different materials for heatsinks. Conversely, I haven't heard from ANYONE who can quantify the perceived effect. As such, I think that leaves us needing more data, not more insults.
SO, how should we go about testing this??
(any ideas, John?
)
As a Midshipman with a keen sense of hearing...I asked my OC to fire a few rounds with the 76mm Oto Melara
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/fly/fly4.html
ofcourse he obliged.
(He wanted nothing less than to waste the tax payers's money with gay abandon. And to please the new dashing and young Midshipman, moi) I wanted to check if the internal communication system still sounded good with the guns firing. The boat was a Reshef class (Saar IV) Strike Craft, pretty small craft... (hence the term boat) so the whole boat shook like when you drive a Renault car over a pebble the size of a marble. (In other words...the whole boat shuddered rather violently)
The sound quality was very bad when a shot was fired...in fact every system on board (all solid state..but with silver wiring and teflon coated mil spec wiring) shorted for a brief second..
Aah those were the days my friend.
Banned
Joined 2002
Re: Re: Re: Re: ENOUGH!
Even new, many are way more microphonic than the most neglected Ampzilla. For that reason I work at not mounting them on the same chassis as the always-vibrating PS transformer. The tubes in my latest project have acceptance stamps from when the Americans were just entering the Pacific theatre of war. GAS was still a generation in the future.
Elso Kwak said:
Hi rdf,
Actually your beloved vacuum tubes are microphonic but when extreme it's a sign of a bad tube.
Even new, many are way more microphonic than the most neglected Ampzilla. For that reason I work at not mounting them on the same chassis as the always-vibrating PS transformer. The tubes in my latest project have acceptance stamps from when the Americans were just entering the Pacific theatre of war. GAS was still a generation in the future.
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