Quite contrary, these ideas are constructive you.
Wild guessing has never made much progress, but established documented rigorous tests, on the contrary makes progress possible.
So if the intention is to advance, establishing documented proof, is a major step, which in return will allow for narrowing down the reason for the effect, and get the maximum from it.
To make a DBT is fairly easy for cap testing. The result of such would then let us make progress, by either facing that we can't hear, what we thought we could, or letting us know to what degree the effect is there, and act accordingly.
Once we have established documentation of the effect, it should be fairly easy to narrow down, which type of construction of teflon caps offers the most, and what the reason for the effect is.
Magura
I find your test very interesting. This would establish a reasonable base, to either go on, or move on.
Would there be any chance I could send you a cap to add to the pot?
What I have in mind, is a Russian mil teflon film foil cap. Those are made to the highest standards, and cost were no object.
The reason to suggest this cap, is that I have made experiments, that shows a difference between housed caps, and those just rolled and wrapped.
Your test caps (V-caps, right?) are AFAIK wrapped?
The Russian type is housed in a very rigid steel housing, which I so far, have been unable to influence enough mechanically, to be able to measure it electrically.
Magura
The relevancy of my claim is that aardvarkash10 says that it's possible to use digital electronic analysis to determine differences in how a system may sound. I was merely proposing a couple of instances where such analyses aren't always reliable.
Maybe I should rephrase that: I don't know of any proper double blind (or even just blind) capacitor comparison tests that have ever been done. You're so touchy, Glen.
John
Well, I said of course you don't because any BDT or BT that doesn't vindicate the audiophile stance isn't proper.
Amazing isn't it? All these glowing reports of miraculous sound quality transformations that are so obviously heard…. With just some care in testing methodology the audiophile stance on so many issues could be so easily scientifically demonstrated and vindicated once and for all..........
I wonder why the manufacturer wouldn't just break them in themselves and sell them as not requiring breakin, that would get around that problem.. Might add a few more dollars to the cost but from what I understand the prices are already stratospheric so a few extra dollars wouldn't make that much of a difference.
I'd be interested to hear theories on what the physical change is in the cap due to breakin, I assume that something must (permanently) change in the properties of the dielectric after it has had electrical charges applied to it for a certain amount of time. Anyone got an electron microsocope that they could examine dialectric from a non-broken in cap and a broken in one?
It is common knowledge that electrolitics change with age, so do teflon change but only to a point, or do they keep on changing indefinitely?
Note I have never used any teflon caps, or heard any (to my knowledge) I have upgraded caps in my amp to "better" ones, I've never considered breaking in components...
Tony.
I'm still waiting for that test to take place. SY may think he has a definitive test in the works, but I'm not sure if he is going to any great lengths to make sure that it is going to be nothing more than another casual demonstration.
Here is probably the main reason so few (if any relevant) test results don't really exist. The scope jockeys who are so adamant about demanding such test results believe they are a moot point, so why bother?
John
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LOL! Why can't the knowledgable audiophiles formulate a proper test and get the results published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal?
This remark is not reasonable.
As I know SY, he would not waste time on something, if not for getting to the bottom of it. He also sports the knowledge to offer proper documentation.
So far, SY's project, is the closest I have seen, to actually get some evidence on the table.
That the subjective camp has a tendency to dismiss any scientific result, that does not fit their POV, does not render his results moot, rather the opposite actually.
Magura
The true reason is that life is to short. No sane scientist will spent his entire life checking extraordinary claims, without any basic connections to the physics as we know it. The onus for checking and providing evidence for such extraordinary claims is on those making them.
Would you think patent offices across the world, not accepting applications regarding perpetuum mobile inventions, are unreasonable ?
And who has decided this? Shouldn't the debunker be doing the debunking? We've already had one famous debunker making a claim to the tune of a million-dollar prize get cold feet.
There are no physics because no one has made a detailed study. No one has made a detailed study because there are no physics. And 'round and 'round she goes...
John
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By reading the documentation.
Nobody ever said that the meeting in France was the source.
Read whats written.
How about upping the bar a bit, regarding manners in this thread?
It would be a lot more productive, if name calling, assumptions of what other people thinks, putting words in the mouth of others, and personal attacks, were put to rest.
Magura
Those of you that spent any time as a grad student or researcher will know it. It's all about "publish or perish." You don't get grants unless you publish, you don't publish, unless it's something that the community in your field thinks it's worthwhile pursuing.
Check the current research, I doubt you'll find much that deals with the such subtle nuances. Hey, the majority of people listen to music on their phones and youtube, you can't blame skientists for going to where the money is, they have family (or ego) to feed. Imperfect real world, eh?
Check the current research, I doubt you'll find much that deals with the such subtle nuances. Hey, the majority of people listen to music on their phones and youtube, you can't blame skientists for going to where the money is, they have family (or ego) to feed. Imperfect real world, eh?
so is there a difference with breaking in teflon caps using a sig. gen pattern vs. playing music through it for a few days?
thought I would give those FT-3 russian caps a try for curiosity sake. initial post stirred up my interest with these teflons. I gave those k42's a try
and like the sound, great bang for the buck.
thought I would give those FT-3 russian caps a try for curiosity sake. initial post stirred up my interest with these teflons. I gave those k42's a try
and like the sound, great bang for the buck.
If one expects to be taken serious, backing claims with evidence is required.
The decision is not whether or not it is so, but rather to decide if one wants to be taken serious.
Magura
EDIT: Actually the same goes for any claim, extraordinary or not.
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