2) I think I can help you out with this one. I would guess that it is something that has grown from the forming of electrolytic capacitors. This effect could be considered "burn in", but happens relatively fast, and is well documented.
Magura
correct - but what of wire, poly caps resistors etc all with claims of sonic improvements following "burn-in" enhancement processes?
Why do the manufacturers not do this pre-sale to save us the effort and to enhance their own rep and bottom line?'
The only logical answers to this that I can see is that burn-in is a psychological process, not an electro-chemical one and so requires change in the listener, not the component.
Why do the manufacturers not do this pre-sale to save us the effort and to enhance their own rep and bottom line?'
The only logical answers to this that I can see is that burn-in is a psychological process, not an electro-chemical one and so requires change in the listener, not the component.
lol - yeah... in an industry where premiums are paid for matched items and some deluded types routinely send their cables for expensive cryo treatment, the "effort" of burning in a component as a matter of course must be staggering and the opportunity for cost recovery remote...
Can't find a tongue in cheek smiley, so this line will have to suffice.
Can't find a tongue in cheek smiley, so this line will have to suffice.
Ahem,some do! See the manufacturers description for the Audience AuraT teflon caps
"pre cooked to reduce burn in time"
http://www.audience-av.com/capacitors/t_description.php
aard: Burning it in before sale reduces the perceived value. Variable cost of burning in is negligible, it's entirely market-driven.
One has to understand the motivation of someone who will lay out hundreds of dollars for a luxury cap which is sold without any evidence of efficacy. Clearly, V-Cap does.
One has to understand the motivation of someone who will lay out hundreds of dollars for a luxury cap which is sold without any evidence of efficacy. Clearly, V-Cap does.
For someone that thinks that those of us that listen intently are delusional, you seem to have used this fact to promote your amplifier design!
http://www.synaesthesia.ca/listening.html
Talking out of both sides of your face here are you
Thanks for reading along and quoting that. The page you are quoting could hopefully be a good example on how to present subjective results/preferences. You would of course note that I do not promote/offer anything but the web site content itself. Life is for me to short to start collecting and shipping PCBs and/or kits orders.
1. They do. Please read my previous post (long explanation of the process, hard to repeat shortly), 2 - not always, but percentage is higher than 50% since people practicing such things to improve quality are already believers, so it is not representational at all for strict lady Statistics.
I hope your other science is to a higher standard. Yes, the base design is admirable but having dismantled a few of them I can assure you the quality of assembly meets every criterion expected of bored state workers. And there in lies the paradox, you're willing to believe they're made to the 'highest standards' why? Because they're scientifically designed?
so, still no coherent
How many caps. a day do you imagine a large facility produces? Can you conceive of the amount of space, extra equipment required, man-hours etc. involved and over a long time-period which would be required?? IF you can, then you have answered your own question. I would expect the end user price to increase five-fold.
Edit: Seen SY's post above....he may be right re cost...but I doubt it if we are taking of the equivalent of 100++ hours of 'normal use' burn-in. Accelerated burn-in technique may not produce the same benefit or character change as 'in use' technique. Just look at the various forms of cooking food in an oven..quick high temperature cooking may well suit roasting red meats but may well ruin other meats.
Audio fetish use absorbs a tiny fraction of total market production. Burn-in may well affect sound quality but probably has no noticeable effect for all the many other end-use purposes!
IF you used your own natural mental resources you would not have pushed the question.
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Thanks SY,
Was on my green edit above when yours (above) was posted! I have to agree with the (probable) cost:saleprice ratio implication. I take it that these 'specialist' producers are outsourcing production or are relabeling OEM parts?
Mind you, the marketing costs paid, they are probably not making more than beer money anyway.
Interesting- I don't really know how much the cap guys make, but Monster sure did well enough with fancy wire. My guess is somewhere in between astonishing lucre and pizza money.
Production is generally outsourced, yes- that's why I'm pretty familiar with it, I spent some years dealing with dielectric films and spent far too much time on production floors. Amortizing equipment cost (even the low tech equipment used to make caps) and dealing with regulatory issues demands high volume production.
Production is generally outsourced, yes- that's why I'm pretty familiar with it, I spent some years dealing with dielectric films and spent far too much time on production floors. Amortizing equipment cost (even the low tech equipment used to make caps) and dealing with regulatory issues demands high volume production.
I can't really understand this religious war...
Do you really want to prove that burn-in is fake?
Take a CD Player with an opamp-based output stage and elcos as opamp's PSU decoupling.
Pull-off the elcos.
Solder some sockets instead of elcos.
Fit the sockets with two brand new Elna Silmics.
Let the player on with some music in repeat mode for 40 hours.
Listen carefully.
Shut down, replace the two used Silmics with two brand new Silmics.
Listen again.
Do you hear something different?
Do you really want to prove that burn-in is fake?
Take a CD Player with an opamp-based output stage and elcos as opamp's PSU decoupling.
Pull-off the elcos.
Solder some sockets instead of elcos.
Fit the sockets with two brand new Elna Silmics.
Let the player on with some music in repeat mode for 40 hours.
Listen carefully.
Shut down, replace the two used Silmics with two brand new Silmics.
Listen again.
Do you hear something different?
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