But Courage,
Why would John want to give his circuits away? Even a good chef only does it in a saleable form - a TV program, or a cookbook! Does a Doctor reveal precisely how he arrives at a treatment regime? A gifted architect his plans? A photographer his technical tips?
What obligation does anyone earning a living from this game have to share the innermost secrets? Why is DIY so different in its expectation to say the building trade, where expertise is routinely paid for? Just because so many like Pavel and Nelson are prepared to give away their valuable insights, what right have we to expect this from all audio designers?
John sells his expertise and attempts to maximise the return, that's his survival. We are lucky to have a few hints from him, not that I necessarily put him on a pedestal. Selling for no money is absurd in this context....... the fact that Nelson, for example, does this is often because his principle IP is patented, and he has the resources to enforce the patents by litigation. For non-commercial purposes, and that's a personal love of his, he is prepared to share. We are lucky; this is a bonus, but it should never be an expectation.
Could it be that you are behaving like a guest at a cocktail party who finds a Doctor and attempts to wheedle a diagnosis of his ailments at no cost?
Cheers,
Hugh
Why would John want to give his circuits away? Even a good chef only does it in a saleable form - a TV program, or a cookbook! Does a Doctor reveal precisely how he arrives at a treatment regime? A gifted architect his plans? A photographer his technical tips?
What obligation does anyone earning a living from this game have to share the innermost secrets? Why is DIY so different in its expectation to say the building trade, where expertise is routinely paid for? Just because so many like Pavel and Nelson are prepared to give away their valuable insights, what right have we to expect this from all audio designers?
John sells his expertise and attempts to maximise the return, that's his survival. We are lucky to have a few hints from him, not that I necessarily put him on a pedestal. Selling for no money is absurd in this context....... the fact that Nelson, for example, does this is often because his principle IP is patented, and he has the resources to enforce the patents by litigation. For non-commercial purposes, and that's a personal love of his, he is prepared to share. We are lucky; this is a bonus, but it should never be an expectation.
Could it be that you are behaving like a guest at a cocktail party who finds a Doctor and attempts to wheedle a diagnosis of his ailments at no cost?
Cheers,
Hugh
Doctors only make more money because they control a government sanctified monopoly.
Most of them are less than smart... 200 years ago engineers were working on steam engines... doctors were still "bleeding" people.
Every damn thing they do is based on empirical evidence... chicken guano.
It's BS, and it will continue, and be subsidized, as long as we chose to quash Darwin at every turn.
Most of them are less than smart... 200 years ago engineers were working on steam engines... doctors were still "bleeding" people.
Every damn thing they do is based on empirical evidence... chicken guano.
It's BS, and it will continue, and be subsidized, as long as we chose to quash Darwin at every turn.
I'm astonished by the level of understanding as to what my point is, especially by those who have English as their native language.
I see we have fallen into a doctor debate, which btw is completely OT!
I and many others participate or have participated in this thread to learn something about building better designs for ourselves and thus enjoy our hobby and the music we listen to even more.
Surely John has given useful answers on various questions, but gradually it became a riddle game that is being played over and over again. "Show me a schematic; show me a simulation; show me this, show me that..." When these are presented they are dealt with as "half-baked", "second-guessing", "what is your point?", etc.... Frankly I don't see of what use this is to anyone nor to the forum. This is not a gentlemen's club where we try to impress each other with intellectual snobbish remarks and statements to make others look like fools.
A real master is someone who creates masters. Not by giving away his secrets that earn him a living, but by guiding the seriously seeking to find the secrets themselves. Such a process is only fruitful when there is a serious exchange of knowledge and insights. Not by responding in a patronizing way to questions posed by those who want to learn.
I see we have fallen into a doctor debate, which btw is completely OT!
I and many others participate or have participated in this thread to learn something about building better designs for ourselves and thus enjoy our hobby and the music we listen to even more.
Surely John has given useful answers on various questions, but gradually it became a riddle game that is being played over and over again. "Show me a schematic; show me a simulation; show me this, show me that..." When these are presented they are dealt with as "half-baked", "second-guessing", "what is your point?", etc.... Frankly I don't see of what use this is to anyone nor to the forum. This is not a gentlemen's club where we try to impress each other with intellectual snobbish remarks and statements to make others look like fools.
A real master is someone who creates masters. Not by giving away his secrets that earn him a living, but by guiding the seriously seeking to find the secrets themselves. Such a process is only fruitful when there is a serious exchange of knowledge and insights. Not by responding in a patronizing way to questions posed by those who want to learn.
as one who has english as a native language, my view is another way to interpret the alleged "patronizing"comments is to view them as john's style of pushing one to think harder. maybe to try to come up with something that perhaps hasn't been seen or tried before.
do you really mean "... a real master is someone who creates masters ..." ?
that seems rather limiting
i could also imagine the true "masters" around here may have some comments about what it means for someone to actually have "master" potential
nuff said. back to the circuits discussion ...
mlloyd1
do you really mean "... a real master is someone who creates masters ..." ?
that seems rather limiting
i could also imagine the true "masters" around here may have some comments about what it means for someone to actually have "master" potential
nuff said. back to the circuits discussion ...
mlloyd1
AKSA said:
Hello Hugh,
I like your analogy, but you should also have made it clear that this forum is a party of doctors who come together with the specific purpose to learn from each other. If you go to such a party the others expect you to give as well as to take.
I think Courage's point is that this is a two way street, and I agree with him there.
Jan Didden
poobah said:Doctors only make more money because they control a government sanctified monopoly.
Most of them are less than smart... 200 years ago engineers were working on steam engines... doctors were still "bleeding" people.
Every damn thing they do is based on empirical evidence... chicken guano.
It's BS, and it will continue, and be subsidized, as long as we chose to quash Darwin at every turn.
Doctors make more money because one can live without music/car/etc. but can hardly live with pain.
Also, you can easily burn some transistors and buy new ones but it's not so easy to find new kidney.
And, yes, every damn thing doctors do is based on emprical evidence because theory sometimes doesn't work in practice - just ask John Curl
PMA said:
Who is the one to assess who gives and who takes?
Let's stay in technical level, no moralizing
OK, no desire to moralise, just to set the analogy from Hugh straight, which I thought was not right.
I think we are all assessing it to our own impressions and expectations. Reactions from forum members clearly show
when they think the balance is skewed.
Stay technical? Not always easy. Life is more than Ohm's law...
Jan Didden
To me, John Curl is conducting this conversation much in the same way as college professors I have had. He isn't here to give us all the answers to the problem sets. Instead, he pushes us in directions that are supposed to make us think, so that we will understand the problems and the solutions to the problems. Hopefully in that way, we will understand the subject matter better and more completely.
If you don't think he is qualified to offer these kinds of insights, then certainly you are entitled to that opinion. But, that is a separate issue.
Expecting him, or anybody else, to just supply the answers is foolish. It's just as foolish as expecting him, or anybody else, to send you a working product just because you want one. Some people are willing to do that, but that is like an unexpected bonus or winning the lottery.
Let me ask this: If John had provided a complete schematic with values plus a circuit board layout, would you be happy? Or, would you be disappointed that he didn't offer a detailed explanation? Would you be asking him about substitutions for various parts? How about custom design changes just for you? Would you be asking him to select and match semiconductors for you? How about trouble shooting advice if the unit didn't work? Or, what if you didn't like the way it sounded - what then?
If you don't think he is qualified to offer these kinds of insights, then certainly you are entitled to that opinion. But, that is a separate issue.
Expecting him, or anybody else, to just supply the answers is foolish. It's just as foolish as expecting him, or anybody else, to send you a working product just because you want one. Some people are willing to do that, but that is like an unexpected bonus or winning the lottery.
Let me ask this: If John had provided a complete schematic with values plus a circuit board layout, would you be happy? Or, would you be disappointed that he didn't offer a detailed explanation? Would you be asking him about substitutions for various parts? How about custom design changes just for you? Would you be asking him to select and match semiconductors for you? How about trouble shooting advice if the unit didn't work? Or, what if you didn't like the way it sounded - what then?
CG said:
I think nobody expects anybody to drop his throusers on this forum, but there is a LOT of usefull advise you can give without giving the crown jewels away.
Look at Nelson Pass or Hugh Dean. They are in the game for the money, yet they are extremely helpfull, and in the several years on this forum I haven't notice anybody complaining about them or using the term 'predator'. Why would that be, you think?
Jan Didden
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