Actually I do.
I buy cables the old fashioned way, by common sense. In my twisted little brain, I still beleive that it's the electrical properties of the cable that are important, I've tried to hear differences in cables in the past, and the only time I heard anything different was when I stretched them real tight and plucked them, I found that bare single strand steel sounded the nicest, but I didn't like the electrical properties as much as my zip chord.
I guess I'm a slave to physics, oh well
Chris
I buy cables the old fashioned way, by common sense. In my twisted little brain, I still beleive that it's the electrical properties of the cable that are important, I've tried to hear differences in cables in the past, and the only time I heard anything different was when I stretched them real tight and plucked them, I found that bare single strand steel sounded the nicest, but I didn't like the electrical properties as much as my zip chord.
I guess I'm a slave to physics, oh well
Chris
carlosfm said:
What???!
Ricardo, put that the other way around please!
I get vomits listening to FM Stereo stations these days...
I worked as a technitian on a local radio, in the end of the 80s, before dynamic compression, and at that time FM sounded much better to me.
And I have some CDs where I can detect dynamic compression.
It sounds horrible.
Compressor exist well before the 80's
Too much compression can sound that way... worst is the overall compression made in the mastering studios...
um, well not exactly
This comes back to my thoughts on picking a speaker match by specs. The high impedance of the ESL does not kill the power in an OTL the way it would with SS. I never really gave it much thought before but yeah, it makes perfect sense. Furthermore, since most of the energy in the music is in the bass, and that's where the ESL impedance gets quite high, you still have most of your power, where you need it most while a SS amp is going the other way(voltage clipping). You also get as a side benefit a higher damping factor where it's most desired. Seems like a match made in heaven. But...
What Ricardo has said though is not power related (I think) but more that the OTL acts as a compressor. I just don't follow. I'd love to hear more on that.
Chris
This comes back to my thoughts on picking a speaker match by specs. The high impedance of the ESL does not kill the power in an OTL the way it would with SS. I never really gave it much thought before but yeah, it makes perfect sense. Furthermore, since most of the energy in the music is in the bass, and that's where the ESL impedance gets quite high, you still have most of your power, where you need it most while a SS amp is going the other way(voltage clipping). You also get as a side benefit a higher damping factor where it's most desired. Seems like a match made in heaven. But...
What Ricardo has said though is not power related (I think) but more that the OTL acts as a compressor. I just don't follow. I'd love to hear more on that.
Chris
nonsense
This doesn't make sense to me.
Valve amps measure poorly if you compare it to transistors.
But you guys prefer it.
I wouldn't be surprised if you guys that prefer them wouldn't be
the same guys that think they can explain everything by numbers.
Is it the more "euphonic" distortion?
We're entering black magic here by the hand of the same people that measure everything and explain everything by the laws of physics and maths.
Deam it, just hear the amp with your speakers.
If you like it, keep it.
So simple...
This doesn't make sense to me.
Valve amps measure poorly if you compare it to transistors.
But you guys prefer it.
I wouldn't be surprised if you guys that prefer them wouldn't be
the same guys that think they can explain everything by numbers.
Is it the more "euphonic" distortion?
We're entering black magic here by the hand of the same people that measure everything and explain everything by the laws of physics and maths.
Deam it, just hear the amp with your speakers.
If you like it, keep it.
So simple...
zip chord, that's a joke see
It was a joke Carlos, I stretched them real tight and plucked them see? Like a guitar. That was the only way I could hear a difference. You may have missed the pun, I spelled zip cord wrong on purpose. In english a chord is a bunch of notes played at once. Like a C chord or a G chord.
I'm sorry, but there simply cannot be a difference in cables, once resistance, capacitance, and inductance are of low enough order to be swamped by higher order effects. I mean for god's sake, look at all that reactance the output runs into when it hits the crossovers. I don't see how a pF here or there in the cable will have much impact. And yes I know about skin effect and maxwell effect and all that, and theoretcially[i/] it alters the signal, but if you're going to use that argument you should show by how much. And furthermore, why does no one measure cables to compare one to another? Well actually I measure cables to make sure they are long enough. I just can't figure out how to replace that measurement with any kind of listening test.
Show me that voodoo that you do so well.
Chris
It was a joke Carlos, I stretched them real tight and plucked them see? Like a guitar. That was the only way I could hear a difference. You may have missed the pun, I spelled zip cord wrong on purpose. In english a chord is a bunch of notes played at once. Like a C chord or a G chord.
I'm sorry, but there simply cannot be a difference in cables, once resistance, capacitance, and inductance are of low enough order to be swamped by higher order effects. I mean for god's sake, look at all that reactance the output runs into when it hits the crossovers. I don't see how a pF here or there in the cable will have much impact. And yes I know about skin effect and maxwell effect and all that, and theoretcially[i/] it alters the signal, but if you're going to use that argument you should show by how much. And furthermore, why does no one measure cables to compare one to another? Well actually I measure cables to make sure they are long enough. I just can't figure out how to replace that measurement with any kind of listening test.
Show me that voodoo that you do so well.
Chris
"I'm sorry, but there simply cannot be a difference in cables, once resistance, capacitance, and inductance are of low enough order to be swamped by higher order effects. I mean for god's sake, look at all that reactance the output runs into when it hits the crossovers."
Sorry but I have to jump in here. You have a lot to learn if what you write is what you believe. Even as short lengths as 1 meter is clearly audible ( the difference that is) with speaker cables, and yes I am talking about sane designs with low enough R C and L to be of no significance on their own.
/Peter
Sorry but I have to jump in here. You have a lot to learn if what you write is what you believe. Even as short lengths as 1 meter is clearly audible ( the difference that is
) with speaker cables, and yes I am talking about sane designs with low enough R C and L to be of no significance on their own./Peter
Hi,
Make that an inch or even the size of a solder joint, and not just for speaker cable but for all kind of wiring.
And there's a lot more to cables than just electrical parameters too.
Cheers,
Even as short lengths as 1 meter is clearly audible ( the difference that is
Make that an inch or even the size of a solder joint, and not just for speaker cable but for all kind of wiring.
And there's a lot more to cables than just electrical parameters too.
Cheers,
Hi,
Yep.
And than there is the cristalyne structure of the metal, crystal length and orientation...metal purity, etc.
Noble metals such as gold and silver tend to have better properties...oh, lest I forget there's metal to dielectric transition as well.
As I said, paying attention to detail really helps...
I'll be the last to pay a small fortune for wires and this is where people like Mr. Venhaus can be a big leg up.
As for industry secrets, while I can lift a few veils...I doubt it would be appreciated though...
You guys would, but I hate to get paranoid...
Cheers,
Yep.
And than there is the cristalyne structure of the metal, crystal length and orientation...metal purity, etc.
Noble metals such as gold and silver tend to have better properties...oh, lest I forget there's metal to dielectric transition as well.
As I said, paying attention to detail really helps...
I'll be the last to pay a small fortune for wires and this is where people like Mr. Venhaus can be a big leg up.
As for industry secrets, while I can lift a few veils...I doubt it would be appreciated though...
You guys would, but I hate to get paranoid...
Cheers,
Re: Re: Re: It's So Easy A Kid Could Do It...
Thanks - this is a useful insight.
I think the central issue on this topic is the credibility of various claims that are made about components, amplifier topologies, and all the rest.
I'm sure, at one end of the scale, people post what they know on the basis of many years of diligent research, and at the other people write out of sheer prejudice. Unless there's some background information available, it may be impossible to tell them apart.
So I'd like to see people with opinions about differences in components explain how they tested to reach their conclusions. And I'd like people who claim no difference in components to explain how they were testing.
Scientific "truth" is only achieved when an experiment produces consistent results no matter whether a "skeptic" or a "believer" performs it. Until we have such an experiment, we should steer clear of slinging mud at the opposition.
Cheers
IH
mrfeedback said:
Thanks - this is a useful insight.
I think the central issue on this topic is the credibility of various claims that are made about components, amplifier topologies, and all the rest.
I'm sure, at one end of the scale, people post what they know on the basis of many years of diligent research, and at the other people write out of sheer prejudice. Unless there's some background information available, it may be impossible to tell them apart.
So I'd like to see people with opinions about differences in components explain how they tested to reach their conclusions. And I'd like people who claim no difference in components to explain how they were testing.
Scientific "truth" is only achieved when an experiment produces consistent results no matter whether a "skeptic" or a "believer" performs it. Until we have such an experiment, we should steer clear of slinging mud at the opposition.
Cheers
IH
planet10 said:
quote:
Originally posted by Pan
there simply cannot be a difference in cables, once resistance, capacitance, and inductance
Hi, just wanna clarify that Christopher was the one that wrote that.
I know of Hawksford and Duncans work, that and my listening tests has made me understand that there is more to it than RCL
.Some people live in the audio-stoneage though
./Peter
BROWNIE POINTS...
Hi,
Ian, that's a very valid point.
I keep on noticing young dads claiming their baby is the prettiest around...
Short of testing and listening to everything yourself, why not rely on old rats like some members here, Eric being one of them but no doubt many others...we all realise it's easier to hold on to the schoolbooks but once you let go you'll discover a fascinating new world.
Look around though, read whatever interests you here and you'll be able to fill you're life with worthwhile experiments.
OTOH, stick to dogmatic shool knowledge and stop the search...
It's all about music,
Hi,
Ian, that's a very valid point.
I keep on noticing young dads claiming their baby is the prettiest around...
Short of testing and listening to everything yourself, why not rely on old rats like some members here, Eric being one of them but no doubt many others...we all realise it's easier to hold on to the schoolbooks but once you let go you'll discover a fascinating new world.
Look around though, read whatever interests you here and you'll be able to fill you're life with worthwhile experiments.
OTOH, stick to dogmatic shool knowledge and stop the search...
It's all about music,
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