Yeah give me at least a week.
But can say I had a TPL-150H last year when living in Oz, had it in a passive 2-way (+subs) with a sealed AE TD15M bellow, xo 2nd order 1.2k. Really liked that one. I found the TPL a bit lacking in airiness though, especially above axis when standing. Ended up using a Raal above it, both forward and upward firing. Sold that TPL to Tuyen who was of the same opinion I think, though we seem to be the only ones running supertweeters (?)
Could try passive between the Liberty and TPL, and will try digital 1st order at a higher XO point, but I think I need to keep the nanodigi (feeding four Audio-GD dacs) as the limited excursion of the Liberty-8 might need steeper slopes for party levels...and I'm anticipating the ripoles needing 4th order LP due to cavity resonances...
But can say I had a TPL-150H last year when living in Oz, had it in a passive 2-way (+subs) with a sealed AE TD15M bellow, xo 2nd order 1.2k. Really liked that one. I found the TPL a bit lacking in airiness though, especially above axis when standing. Ended up using a Raal above it, both forward and upward firing. Sold that TPL to Tuyen who was of the same opinion I think, though we seem to be the only ones running supertweeters (?)
Could try passive between the Liberty and TPL, and will try digital 1st order at a higher XO point, but I think I need to keep the nanodigi (feeding four Audio-GD dacs) as the limited excursion of the Liberty-8 might need steeper slopes for party levels...and I'm anticipating the ripoles needing 4th order LP due to cavity resonances...
I think supertweeters are needed for all compression driver tweeters, and the TPL-150. I will get RAAL transformers for my Transmission Audio true ribbons soon. I have always wondered how original RAAL drivers sound like between 2 to 3kHz compared to the TPL. My TA true ribbons are really wimpy at that area.
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bvan,
It's been more than a week now and I am sooo curious to hear your impressions, especially of the Liberty8.
Very very pleased mate, have written a bit more here
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/56089-ob-4-way/
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/56089-ob-4-way/
About the Liberty8 specifically, I find it hard to say anything without something to compare it to, and because it integrates seamlessly and seems to make no mistakes at all. I struggle to imagine a better driver for the task, but how it compares to the next-best option (12p80nd ?) I cant say.
Who's heard both in the same system and could say, I'd be interested?
Who's heard both in the same system and could say, I'd be interested?
I tried it with green cones instead of a E120 with 2204H recone which should be very similar to a liberty 8. I think you sacrifice some fine detail but gain muscle going this route.
The TPL 150 is very versatile and so smooth, but I will not use it with the horn system. It is too dead and clinical.
Girlfriend has the greencone + TPL 150 at her place. I got my horns.
The TPL 150 is very versatile and so smooth, but I will not use it with the horn system. It is too dead and clinical.
Girlfriend has the greencone + TPL 150 at her place. I got my horns.
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Not sure I quite understand your feeling for the TPL from your description Rewind, I'd take 'clinical' to be the opposite of 'smooth'. (also not sure what 'clinical' by itself means, other than appearing anorexic and revealing/detailed due to breakup, distortion or rising FR)
I'd call the TPL smooth/non-fatiguing sounding certainly, due possibly to low distortion, being fairly linear, and having bags of dynamic headroom. Its detailed too within its range (can never have too much of that). I'd also call it 'polite'('dead'?), as it's a bit rolled off in the top octave off-axis, which is why I run a supertweeter above. In dipole mode it also has a bit 1-2k dip if I remember, which might also leave it a bit polite sounding.
Cheers
B
The TPL compared to horn drivers sound "clinical" to me. Horns are incredibly dynamic and ALIVE. The TPL becomes clinical and boring, even in a horn.
I prefer my music "alive" with hints of distortion rather than clinical, as I called it.
Compression drivers have an even worse top end, so a supertweeter is needed here also.
Thanks for the clarification.
Seems by clinical you mean lacking dynamics. Language can be confusing sometimes, I bet if we took a vote on the least clinical sounding speaker, based on reputation Harbeth would probably win, but dynamics wise they wouldn't hold a candle to the TPL.
I've got a Radian 850PB in 400hz tractrix horn in the attic, might dust it off for a comparo.
Seems by clinical you mean lacking dynamics. Language can be confusing sometimes, I bet if we took a vote on the least clinical sounding speaker, based on reputation Harbeth would probably win, but dynamics wise they wouldn't hold a candle to the TPL.
I've got a Radian 850PB in 400hz tractrix horn in the attic, might dust it off for a comparo.
I have the RADIAN 750-8 (760PB). You would be comparing two different ranges. The TPL would be better at the highs in comparison with the Radian in that horn. Radian is by the way one of the smoothest compression drivers I have heard. Not in the top but close.
Try a smaller horn. But you need horn loading all the way. Dont make an avantgarde duo. That just doesn't work.
Try a smaller horn. But you need horn loading all the way. Dont make an avantgarde duo. That just doesn't work.
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I honestly didn't know about this extended thread covering the 12P80Nd with the TP150H...
see my post in the other thread:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/197558-best-midrange-pair-beyma-tpl-150-a-20.html
Tangen's inConcert Miles is what has been on my mind for months now for use as LCR and Surround in my HT. The Miles uses two 15P80Nd with one TPL150H. Then I start reading all those posts (many on scandinavian forums) that the TPL150H needs a dedicated midrange, making things more complicated than I'd like. After comparing the data-sheets of both 15P80Nd and 12P80Nd, it struck me that the 12P80Nd has to be a more appropriate match to the TPL150H for a pure two-way design, especially in a 5.1 set-up. I have two very large subs ready, tuned to 13 Hz. Glad that you like the pairing between 12P80Nd and TPL150H!
What are the thoughts about using two 12P80Nd in MTM architecture instead of one? I see you used a 90 liter sealed cabinet, which is 50% more than what Beyma states in their datasheet [20-60 liter]. I can deal with 2x90 = 180 liters (the room is 60 m2) if that is the best option. Any thoughts on that, please? What about a vented box?
I honestly didn't know about this extended thread covering the 12P80Nd with the TP150H...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/197558-best-midrange-pair-beyma-tpl-150-a-20.html
Tangen's inConcert Miles is what has been on my mind for months now for use as LCR and Surround in my HT. The Miles uses two 15P80Nd with one TPL150H. Then I start reading all those posts (many on scandinavian forums) that the TPL150H needs a dedicated midrange, making things more complicated than I'd like. After comparing the data-sheets of both 15P80Nd and 12P80Nd, it struck me that the 12P80Nd has to be a more appropriate match to the TPL150H for a pure two-way design, especially in a 5.1 set-up. I have two very large subs ready, tuned to 13 Hz. Glad that you like the pairing between 12P80Nd and TPL150H!
What are the thoughts about using two 12P80Nd in MTM architecture instead of one? I see you used a 90 liter sealed cabinet, which is 50% more than what Beyma states in their datasheet [20-60 liter]. I can deal with 2x90 = 180 liters (the room is 60 m2) if that is the best option. Any thoughts on that, please? What about a vented box?
Hi Erwin
a MTM combo using 12p80nd and TPL150 will be a great choice. I use just one 12p80nd, and efficiency matches well. with mini dsp you have a lot of flexibility to tweak until you get the best results. I did use a 90 liter cab that i had already here , if i would start from scratch, i'd go upon Beyma recomendation, and use a smaller cab. But 90 liter is ok as well.
Angelo
I've tested 12p80nd and IMO it's among the world's top 10 best midrangers ever built. I'm anxious to get my TPL-150Hs but no lock yet. you said 90l is enough, what is low frequency response you get from 12p80nd in 90l? I noticed using it as midbass/midrange combined to a 15 or 18 incher woof would be a better-sounding sepaker
In my 90l cabinet, the 12p80nd has usable output down to ~50hz. But if you can raise below that frequency 6 or 12db with a plate amp or electronic crossover, you won't need a sub. The best in my view is what i am doing : a sub bass array crossed at 40hz / 24db.
The only midrange i would be curious to compare to the 12p80nd is the PHL Audio 2460.
Yeah the audiophile gods would not be pleased with me. But I need to simplify and free up funds and shrink the system too as we'll be on the move quite a bit the next year. Took it away over NY and it took me two car trips and 4 hours to set up at the new place, vowed never again. Wife not fond of the mountain of cables and boxes either, so no more 4-way actives in my near future, back to dinky passives for a while Been through this cycle of complexity to simplicity a few times over the years, bit like the seasons for me
Been through this cycle of complexity to simplicity a few times over the years, bit like the seasons for me
How are the 12P80ND in the area 80-200Hz and also at 1000-1500Hz?
Used as dipoles, do you get any proper output down to 80Hz from the 12P80ND?
I doubt it. If I get them I would probably use them in a sealed box with ~40-50 litres.
Tried the JBL 2202H recone in a E-120 magnet, but it is not very useful below 200Hz. Not even when sealed. I tried the 2202H as a dipole and it sounded better but lost all midbass. And it is not very detailed in the midrange.
Rewind
Used as dipoles, do you get any proper output down to 80Hz from the 12P80ND?
I doubt it. If I get them I would probably use them in a sealed box with ~40-50 litres.
Tried the JBL 2202H recone in a E-120 magnet, but it is not very useful below 200Hz. Not even when sealed. I tried the 2202H as a dipole and it sounded better but lost all midbass. And it is not very detailed in the midrange.
Rewind
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