How much does the FR change when doing this.?
I'm Using the TPL with a PHL E25-3020 in a 2 way.
Very satisfied with this combo
There will be a fairly broad and large (5 dB if I remember correctly) peak around 9k. Easy to fix with EQ, either active or with a simple passive notch filter.
It sounds more transparent, dynamic and clean.
An other thing is its very wide bandwidth (150 Hz ->). It extends a decade lower than the TPL.
I would love to hear the Radia RD75. Some time ago, i contacted the manufacturer. They would give me even distribution here in brazil. But shipping was so expensive, that i aborted the venture. They appear from time to time at ebay, more so, the smaller RD50. Who knows, one day i might try out a pair.
This driver has Fs 300hz. The WE555 is used down to 150hz in the WE15a horn. WE afficionados prefere it without crossover at all, fullrange. I heard it twice, but it sounded aweful. I did not atribute it to the driver, but to the horn. Surprisingly, the LM555 is flat down to 150hz in my 38" horn, has however a buck at ~ 180hz.
At this frequency curve, it shows a buck at ~500hz :
i don't know if that has some correlation.
I am not giving up hope, that i might get a result which satisfied me, and make it worth keep the driver. When i heard the LM555 / WE22a, driven by WE91a - 300b amp, at Guangzhou show, i was impressed. Dynamics and vividness, and the sense of " you are there ". They were using it between 300hz, and 6khz. The music they played, was however bad for evaluation: some chinese cimbal. That did not aloud to observe tone and naturalness, as with voices.
I am however limited with passive crossover, to try out things. Getting a MiniDSP i will have to multi amp, that means, buy more amplifiers. That is a investment, that i might make later, not now.
I think so, too. Its premature to give up the driver. Specially, as it took me some time to make the adapter, and power supply etc to arrive.
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Stig Erik,
I find this hard to believe as this is supposed to be the TPL's forté! Also the difference is sensitivity is huge, and not in favour of the RD-75.
I would love to try these out too but have so far shied away because of some reports of their lack of transients and limited SPL capability.
I know you do not typically listen very loudly (and very near-field) but does the RD-75 maintain its dynamic capabilities also when played a bit louder (90-100dB average). And would you say they are as good as the TPL also for HT use? At what point do they start to compress and sound stressed?
I was wrong in my guess that RD75 would be anything like my big true ribbon.
According to ThomasW on DIYaudio "The larger B&G planar RD series have a sonic signature very similar to that of Magnepans. This isn't unexpected given their construction
The little Neo 8's are fun but don't have a lot of output, so they work best in a line array. Unfortunately an array of them is almost the cost of the RD series model of equal height."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/21499-bohlender-graebener-ribbons.html
So, the RD75 sound better than the TPL, and the RD75 sound like Magnepans? Vintage magnepans are not that expensive on ebay and they have a cult following it seems, from people who have trouble letting them go.
The RD75 have a sensitivity of 88db and the TPL has 99dB. Not sure what this means in the real world. I thought low efficiency speakers was what we were trying to get away from.
In one of the reviews at partsexpress someone used the RD75 between 300-4000 and used a RAAL ribbon above 4000Hz to avoid the bump. Someone EQd it with a Behringer DEQX. As with the the LM 555 W the rated 150Hz seem too low.
Could the RD75 be the "midbass AMT" Angelo is looking for?
People seem to be very divided about the Magnepans. Here is BillBauman describing Magnepans and Dynaudio speakers:
"I love speaker listening. To be up front, I don't care for Paradigms or Magnepans (any electrostat, actually), I love Dynaudios.
What you experienced is no surprise to me. I was also recently in a shop with the Maggies set up. Here's the thing, the two old men that were there listening to them absolutely loved them. They thought they were brilliantly wonderful. I, at the exact same time, was trying to figure out what was wrong with the room, or the source, or the speakers, or if I was just in an alternate universe. It's nice that your dealer actually recognized the same thing you did. This is why all these different brands exist, I guess. Some people just hear it all differently than others. If you saw my ad, I was selling a pair of Dyanaudio Audience 42W bookshelves that I acquired, since I had no use for them. I just decided to keep them. They're just too good, and these are only $899/pair list. Dynaudio makes a speaker with presence, and that's what I love. I don't feel any electrostat has presence. Paradigms, to me, are always a bit muddy, and never have that incredibly huge soundstage I love. I did recently hear the very latest, highest end Signatures, and I had to concede to that dealer, they were acceptable. But, for the price? Not for me.
Now, all that said, I also recently listened to the Mk I of the Focus 220's, and I thought they sounded gimicky. What I mean is, they seem to have used cheaper parts and over accentuated parts of the sound to try to compensate for it. I guess that's why they brought out a Mk II of that speaker. So, all Dyn's aren't great, but if you've found a pair you love, well, it's no surprise. "
http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=speakers&action=display&thread=18495
This is becoming very confusing. How can something that is beaten by a boring Dynaudio be superior to TPL?
According to ThomasW on DIYaudio "The larger B&G planar RD series have a sonic signature very similar to that of Magnepans. This isn't unexpected given their construction
The little Neo 8's are fun but don't have a lot of output, so they work best in a line array. Unfortunately an array of them is almost the cost of the RD series model of equal height."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/21499-bohlender-graebener-ribbons.html
So, the RD75 sound better than the TPL, and the RD75 sound like Magnepans? Vintage magnepans are not that expensive on ebay and they have a cult following it seems, from people who have trouble letting them go.
The RD75 have a sensitivity of 88db and the TPL has 99dB. Not sure what this means in the real world. I thought low efficiency speakers was what we were trying to get away from.
In one of the reviews at partsexpress someone used the RD75 between 300-4000 and used a RAAL ribbon above 4000Hz to avoid the bump. Someone EQd it with a Behringer DEQX. As with the the LM 555 W the rated 150Hz seem too low.
Could the RD75 be the "midbass AMT" Angelo is looking for?
People seem to be very divided about the Magnepans. Here is BillBauman describing Magnepans and Dynaudio speakers:
"I love speaker listening. To be up front, I don't care for Paradigms or Magnepans (any electrostat, actually), I love Dynaudios.
What you experienced is no surprise to me. I was also recently in a shop with the Maggies set up. Here's the thing, the two old men that were there listening to them absolutely loved them. They thought they were brilliantly wonderful. I, at the exact same time, was trying to figure out what was wrong with the room, or the source, or the speakers, or if I was just in an alternate universe. It's nice that your dealer actually recognized the same thing you did.
This is why all these different brands exist, I guess. Some people just hear it all differently than others. If you saw my ad, I was selling a pair of Dyanaudio Audience 42W bookshelves that I acquired, since I had no use for them. I just decided to keep them. They're just too good, and these are only $899/pair list. Dynaudio makes a speaker with presence, and that's what I love. I don't feel any electrostat has presence. Paradigms, to me, are always a bit muddy, and never have that incredibly huge soundstage I love. I did recently hear the very latest, highest end Signatures, and I had to concede to that dealer, they were acceptable. But, for the price? Not for me.Now, all that said, I also recently listened to the Mk I of the Focus 220's, and I thought they sounded gimicky. What I mean is, they seem to have used cheaper parts and over accentuated parts of the sound to try to compensate for it. I guess that's why they brought out a Mk II of that speaker.
So, all Dyn's aren't great, but if you've found a pair you love, well, it's no surprise. "http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=speakers&action=display&thread=18495
This is becoming very confusing. How can something that is beaten by a boring Dynaudio be superior to TPL?
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Then you should try the TPL without the "H" horn in the nude
The TPL150-H uses a shallow wave guide, not a horn . I made comparison of bouth, the difference is not much. At least not to care for.
I could never get compression drivers to sound right to my ears either, but it's not like I tried a ton of them.
I've used the RD75 a long time ago and the TPL-150 and Raal 140-15 currently. Raal wins if you can cross near 3KHz or above. The TPL-150 is great for our studio monitors, but there's something so right and effortless and true sounding about the Raal drivers. Actually, the OEM 70-20 is even better than the 140-15, but honestly they are both fantastic and the best high frequency reproduction I've heard aside from plasma. We're using the 70-20 in a new smaller, studio monitor that ought to be finished soon.
Greg
I've used the RD75 a long time ago and the TPL-150 and Raal 140-15 currently. Raal wins if you can cross near 3KHz or above. The TPL-150 is great for our studio monitors, but there's something so right and effortless and true sounding about the Raal drivers. Actually, the OEM 70-20 is even better than the 140-15, but honestly they are both fantastic and the best high frequency reproduction I've heard aside from plasma. We're using the 70-20 in a new smaller, studio monitor that ought to be finished soon.
Greg
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Stig Erik,
I find this hard to believe as this is supposed to be the TPL's forté! Also the difference is sensitivity is huge, and not in favour of the RD-75.
I would love to try these out too but have so far shied away because of some reports of their lack of transients and limited SPL capability.
I know you do not typically listen very loudly (and very near-field) but does the RD-75 maintain its dynamic capabilities also when played a bit louder (90-100dB average). And would you say they are as good as the TPL also for HT use? At what point do they start to compress and sound stressed?
The TPL is very dynamic, but I find the RD75 even better. Sensitivity is far lower, but given enough amplifier power that is really not a problem.
How loud you can go with the RD75 depends more on XO frequency, baffle loading and listening distance than power handling and sensitivity, but in any case they should be loud enough for domestic listening without starting to compress. 95-100 dB average is not a problem in my room at least.
The TPL is in a totally different league SPL-wise though, especially with the horn.
I've heard Magnepan 1.7's, and to my ears at least they sound like midrange and little else. Very odd tonal balance, and very different from my own RD-75 setup.
Why did you switch to the TPL from the RD75? Is your opinion also that the RD75 sound better?
RD75 was 10+ years ago. Not the same system or level of hearing expertise at that point. TPL was only cross auditioned with compression drivers, the Fountek Neopro5 and the Raal. In that comparo, Raal wins, but TPL was chosen for higher native SPL and durability for commercial studio use. If it were for private studio or home hi-fi as in my system, Raal is the king.
I prefer the RD series drivers as wide-range/mid drivers. They do not sound as airy and effortless up top as true ribbon tweeters to my ears.
Greg
Greg,
You use Neo10 now, does that mean you rate them higher than the RD for mids?
I know you've played around a lot with the Neo10 before you settled on your design, so let me ask you this in relation to this particular thread: Since pairing the TPL with the 12P80Nd has directivity issues, while the Neo10 doesn't, what potential problems do you see with using two Neo10 next to each other to simulate sort of a square 10" mid driver? in other words, what GR Research is doing in their Super 7 but minus the MTM config:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Will the two drivers behave like one or are the radiating surfaces too far away from each other to blend in nicely in the 300-2000 Hz pass band and you get lobing and all sorts of issues? When would two drivers together like that start to beam?
Raytech, I was wondering the same as InOtIn and waited for your answer.
I found this on Bohlender-Graebener:
"Makes planar magnetic and ribbon drivers and sells them to OEM customers and they have started to pop up for sale in a few specialist shops as well. They also supply at the least one sub-bass woofer designed to mate with their ribbon designs, but that can be a bit misleading, while their ribbon drivers have a wider usable range than most others and it would be a disservice to call the tweeters, they are not quite wide ranging enough to need only a sub to form a complete loudspeaker, they loose strength pretty fast under 2k."
Loudspeaker Drivers - audiotools.com.
I wonder how they would compare to the LM 555. My guess is that with that little ribbon, they would start sounding pretty thin at 300-800Hz in comparison, but maybe not distort in the same way with different music genres.
I found this on Bohlender-Graebener:
"Makes planar magnetic and ribbon drivers and sells them to OEM customers and they have started to pop up for sale in a few specialist shops as well. They also supply at the least one sub-bass woofer designed to mate with their ribbon designs, but that can be a bit misleading, while their ribbon drivers have a wider usable range than most others and it would be a disservice to call the tweeters, they are not quite wide ranging enough to need only a sub to form a complete loudspeaker, they loose strength pretty fast under 2k."
Loudspeaker Drivers - audiotools.com.
I wonder how they would compare to the LM 555. My guess is that with that little ribbon, they would start sounding pretty thin at 300-800Hz in comparison, but maybe not distort in the same way with different music genres.
RD-75
For me - lock of dynamic just take away of my interest for RD-75. It's sound none-compress, but - dynamic's? Zero. None. Same with Peerlesss subwoofers. They are sub's with good touching tone. Nothing else. And not suppose to be. No kick, no details, and no dynamics. 20-80hz -good choise. No more.
Just my 2c
For me - lock of dynamic just take away of my interest for RD-75. It's sound none-compress, but - dynamic's? Zero. None. Same with Peerlesss subwoofers. They are sub's with good touching tone. Nothing else. And not suppose to be. No kick, no details, and no dynamics. 20-80hz -good choise. No more.
Just my 2c