Wonderful. THAT's it.
I need now to switch to a amplifier, which combines better, specially with TPL, and voilá. I am very close to audio nirwana.
Then you no longer need the bass AMTs
Then you no longer need the bass AMTs
12p80nd is very close to audio nirvana
bass amt WILL BE audio nirvana
150hz first order, 1,2khz second order.
The volume of the box continues the same ~ 110 liters. ( 86cm x 36cm 36cm inside ) I just closed the back exist with speaker dampening pad.
i am unable to make direct a/b comparisons, since i sold the 950pb a couple of years ago. But the general characteristic is similar. That means : very defined and fast impulse response in the frequencies between ~ 500hz and 1,5khz, no cone driver is capable of. But below, not good. Even if the LM555 measures flat down to ~ 150hz in the 38" horn, it does not perform well. It sounds truncated, flat, unnatural, typical horn coloration. Same with the Radian 950pb.
Western Electric 15a / 555, which i heard twice - a nightmare ( i don't know how people can like it ).
With the 12p80nd it seems the full frequency spectrum of voices is nicely and naturally reproduced, there is still a lot of information in the 100 - 200hz range. With the LM555 this information is not reproduced well, its like something is cut away. Its reproduced separately with the bass line array. But somehow in a muddy and undefined way. There is a clear advantage of the same driver reproducing a wide frequency range, lower midrange , a part of bass, while split these frequencies between the 555, and the bass array, provides no good synergy.
So i have compared 3 different lower midrange solutions :
- 38" horn with Fane Studio 8m
- 38" horn with LM555 , and Radian 950pb
- 12" Beyma 12p80nd.
The 12p80nd is the clear winner, performing extraordinarly well:
wide dispersion / directivity matching with the TPL, capable of reproducing a wide frequency range , 60hz to 1,2khz no problem, very natural, good tone colors , very defined in the " beat " and " punch " region ( 80 to 120hz ), and adding soundstage and depth.
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Impulse response is good. But the whole picture has to be evaluated. I don't like it as is now. And i am unsure, if its worth to keep tweak more, or if i sell the LM555's right away. Moving crossover up to 300hz might not bring too much. And change to 300b, who knows.......
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12p80nd is very close to audio nirvana
bass amt WILL BE audio nirvana
150hz first order, 1,2khz second order.
The volume of the box continues the same ~ 110 liters. ( 86cm x 36cm 36cm inside ) I just closed the back exist with speaker dampening pad.
i am unable to make direct a/b comparisons, since i sold the 950pb a couple of years ago. But the general characteristic is similar. That means : very defined and fast impulse response in the frequencies between ~ 500hz and 1,5khz, no cone driver is capable of. But below, not good. Even if the LM555 measures flat down to ~ 150hz in the 38" horn, it does not perform well. It sounds truncated, flat, unnatural, typical horn coloration. Same with the Radian 950pb.
Western Electric 15a / 555, which i heard twice - a nightmare ( i don't know how people can like it ).
With the 12p80nd it seems the full frequency spectrum of voices is nicely and naturally reproduced, there is still a lot of information in the 100 - 200hz range. With the LM555 this information is not reproduced well, its like something is cut away. Its reproduced separately with the bass line array. But somehow in a muddy and undefined way. There is a clear advantage of the same driver reproducing a wide frequency range, lower midrange , a part of bass, while split these frequencies between the 555, and the bass array, provides no good synergy.
So i have compared 3 different lower midrange solutions :
- 38" horn with Fane Studio 8m
- 38" horn with LM555 , and Radian 950pb
- 12" Beyma 12p80nd.
The 12p80nd is the clear winner, performing extraordinarly well:
wide dispersion / directivity matching with the TPL, capable of reproducing a wide frequency range , 60hz to 1,2khz no problem, very natural, good tone colors , very defined in the " beat " and " punch " region ( 80 to 120hz ), and adding soundstage and depth.
I wonder if you ran them higher, say 300Hz with a steeper crossover you would get less of the horn negative characteristics you mention..
The TPL seem to share too much with the HEIL. I think it was Romy who described the HEIL as a driver which sound pleasant but it sound pleasant in everything. In the end, he said, everything just sounded like HEIL!
As much as I love the TPL I feel it is way to forgiving. If you, readers, own a TPL, try to listen to this song. As the title suggest, this should not be easy listening. But with my TPL, it is! YouTube
As much as I love the TPL I feel it is way to forgiving. If you, readers, own a TPL, try to listen to this song. As the title suggest, this should not be easy listening. But with my TPL, it is! YouTube
yeah,
remember that comment from Limono :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/197558-best-midrange-pair-beyma-tpl-150-a-2.html
The major difference of the TPL to ALL compression drivers i used previously ,
that includes Altec 802, Altec 288-16G, BMS 4592nd, Radian 950pb, Radian 475pb, Vitavox S2, and drivers which i heard in systems from others, specially TAD 4001, most in tractrix and LeCleac'h horns are :
I have never come up to find a compression driver, that was not sounding hard, and make me become tired after some time of listening, a sort of agressiveness, which made hurt my ear. Some where more forgiving, like Radian 950pb, but the characteristic is generally the same. That might not be the case with some drivers that use more modern composite diaphragms. Also JBL 2482 with phenolic diaphragm, which i heard at my friend Mario's home near Milan, sounded wonderful, not agressive at all, but very lively, with great color and dynamic contrast. Also TAD 4003, in Magico Ultimo, sounded very nice and enjoyable.
Furthermore, i prefere wide dispersion, over reduced through horns. And something, which was a great " aha ", when i compared directly the TPL to S2/LeCleach : horn coloration. Specially voices were a true revelation through the TPL: wonderfully natural timbre and tone. While through the horns, it sounds as if someone speaks through a megafone. When making direct A/B comparison, that becomes evident. In my view, no smoothness inside the horn, no curved horn mouth to avoid diffraction, simply nothing can overcome physics : Tone will always be altered negatively to fidedlity, reproduced through a horn. Modern direct radiating pro drivers with 100db/wm retain the advantage of horns: vividness, dinamics, while sound natural. Maibe i change opinion over time, experimenting and hearing different drivers/horns....... i always learn.
Furthermore : The TPL is extremely revealing. I does show right away the character of a amplifier, or a bad recording, which makes it tricky to find a amp, which combines well. I heard the original ESS Heil in Hong Kong. I liked it a lot as well. I had not the feeling, that it was sounding pleasant with everything...... but very fast, and revealing, almost bright.
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I don't know. I heard the ESS Heil in a different environment. Different room in size, furniture, speaker combination etc.
Room for improvement, i see only in extending the amt principle to full range operation.
Here is my summary.
Beyma 1" CDs
Pros:
Slightly lower extension.
The sense of having a powerful sound.
Higher sensitivity means a different experience.
Its ability to produce wanted distortion.
Cons:
It's ability to produce unwanted distortion.
More EQ needed to produce the last 16-20KHz
Annoying S and T sounds.
Membrane can't keep up with changes in the song (?).
TPL-150
Pros:
Smooth and natural above 2KHz. Best I have heard so far.
Cons:
It is unstable above 10KHz, according to some charts.
Cymbals sound strained.
Smoothens everything slightly, including songs that are supposed to be harsh and aggressive, but not as bad as a dome tweeter. Usually a good thing, but not always.
Now I will go and wave to the king of Norway at the castle! We are celebrating the national day here.
Beyma 1" CDs
Pros:
Slightly lower extension.
The sense of having a powerful sound.
Higher sensitivity means a different experience.
Its ability to produce wanted distortion.
Cons:
It's ability to produce unwanted distortion.
More EQ needed to produce the last 16-20KHz
Annoying S and T sounds.
Membrane can't keep up with changes in the song (?).
TPL-150
Pros:
Smooth and natural above 2KHz. Best I have heard so far.
Cons:
It is unstable above 10KHz, according to some charts.
Cymbals sound strained.
Smoothens everything slightly, including songs that are supposed to be harsh and aggressive, but not as bad as a dome tweeter. Usually a good thing, but not always.
Now I will go and wave to the king of Norway at the castle! We are celebrating the national day here.
I just wanted to mention that I know of ZERO compression drivers that are able to handle 150 cycles, let alone with a 1. order high pass filter.
Don't think the LM-555 is cut out for these kind of conditions, although I have never worked with this driver myself.
I have the JBL 2482 and I would never try to get it under 350 Hz even though it can take a tremendous amount of punishment.
best
Kris
Don't think the LM-555 is cut out for these kind of conditions, although I have never worked with this driver myself.
I have the JBL 2482 and I would never try to get it under 350 Hz even though it can take a tremendous amount of punishment.
best
Kris
How much does the FR change when doing this.?
I'm Using the TPL with a PHL E25-3020 in a 2 way.
Very satisfied with this combo
I think you will find compression drivers driven within their limits a totally different sound.