>>> I am a graphic designer...
Me too... and an internet marketing guy. Employed but looking for work. I have interviews thurs and fri... wish me luck!
>>> Zilla, I happened upon your Tang Band W8-1808 project...
>>> Do you think the W8-1808s offer a similar sense of space and pulse as the Betas...
Nope.
>>> ...with more refinement?
Yup.
>>> Or are we moving more toward a studio monitor as opposed to a pro sound "live" feel there?
I think so. I really love the TB 1808 but boxed them up since the 12lta provides me with more musical satisfaction overall. The TB 1808 IS smoother thru the mids and treble and DOES reveal even more fine detail BUT it's not as dynamic, not as 'alive' and not as efficient. When i switched between the two speakers (both sitting atop H-frames) the TB sounded smaller and was noticeably less efficient. Things popped more with the 12lta and tho privileged i am for having such lovely (and expensive) drivers like the TB 1808 and Fostex 168s, among others I really like both the modest Pioneer B20 and Eminence 12lta drivers a lot. The Pioneer is clearly inferior to all of the above but somehow satisfies me on a musical level. I think because it's never 'in your face.' The new GRS 'replacement' for that driver is a little bit in your face unfortunately.
The 12lta was and still is a big surprise to me. I did not expect the lush midrange it produces. While not 'accurate' it does produce a lifelike sound that reminds me of live music. I just feel more like i am at the venue with the 12lta. The TB does this on a smaller scale as does the Fostex. TB and Fostex are also not accurate from top to bottom... none are perfect. But the TB and Fostex offer more micro detail and more depth front to back while the 12lta offers greater dynamics and more realism (even at lower volumes). It always sounds more like real music to me. Also, the 12lta is much less picky than the TB or Fostex. The 12lta sounds good with a wider variety of music. If for some reason i want to listen to classical, the orchestra sounds vast and wide thru the 12lta while it sounds smaller on the TB/Fostex... But the TB and Fostex allow you to hear the rosin on the bow more easily than thru the 12lta. You give up something regardless of which you choose. But i still find the 12lta satisfying enough to give me a sense of 'accuracy' and can listen critically. But I find I listen more for pleasure these past few months and fiddle much less with the blending of the sub and tweeters.
Having said that the TB 1808 is a beautiful driver worth buying. I already have boxes for them half built and have decided to appreciate them as a true full range driver without sub or super tweeter (i may change my mind on both eventually, lol) in a more simple system. This cannot be done with the 12lta. There's a purity to the full range sound, warts and all, that i crave in my home or office and the TB is up to task... but not up to task for full blown, very loud, realistic levels i desire for Fleetwood Mac or James Taylor's live albums (among others) which sound amazing thru the 12lta.
Also, when listening to Rocky Horror Picture Show CD (which i enjoy) it never quite sounds right thru any speaker. But on the 12lta it sounds more listenable. Thru the TB and Fostex it sounds like crap.
The 12lta aint full range and needs to be part of a three way but in that fashion it makes a lot of music. Since you are used to the 12" 'wide range' sound why not consider others like the Audio Nirvana 12 inch? Going for smaller diameter drivers may disappoint you at this point... unless you are willing to trade scale and dynamics for somewhat more micro detail.
>>> Noew here's the "hijack" part: GM, Zilla, anyone - Do you think my 16-ohm Altec 416As are a viable candidate as an H-frame...
Not sure about the Altecs for H-frames but i appreciate the smaller H-frame footprint. It can't be tucked into a corner like JRKO's larger bass boxes so it's footprint may be about the same ultimately. It would be interesting to hear how different H-frames sound compared to the bigger sealed boxes but i have a feeling they will both produce great, enjoyable bass.
Me too... and an internet marketing guy. Employed but looking for work. I have interviews thurs and fri... wish me luck!
>>> Zilla, I happened upon your Tang Band W8-1808 project...
>>> Do you think the W8-1808s offer a similar sense of space and pulse as the Betas...
Nope.
>>> ...with more refinement?
Yup.
>>> Or are we moving more toward a studio monitor as opposed to a pro sound "live" feel there?
I think so. I really love the TB 1808 but boxed them up since the 12lta provides me with more musical satisfaction overall. The TB 1808 IS smoother thru the mids and treble and DOES reveal even more fine detail BUT it's not as dynamic, not as 'alive' and not as efficient. When i switched between the two speakers (both sitting atop H-frames) the TB sounded smaller and was noticeably less efficient. Things popped more with the 12lta and tho privileged i am for having such lovely (and expensive) drivers like the TB 1808 and Fostex 168s, among others I really like both the modest Pioneer B20 and Eminence 12lta drivers a lot. The Pioneer is clearly inferior to all of the above but somehow satisfies me on a musical level. I think because it's never 'in your face.' The new GRS 'replacement' for that driver is a little bit in your face unfortunately.
The 12lta was and still is a big surprise to me. I did not expect the lush midrange it produces. While not 'accurate' it does produce a lifelike sound that reminds me of live music. I just feel more like i am at the venue with the 12lta. The TB does this on a smaller scale as does the Fostex. TB and Fostex are also not accurate from top to bottom... none are perfect. But the TB and Fostex offer more micro detail and more depth front to back while the 12lta offers greater dynamics and more realism (even at lower volumes). It always sounds more like real music to me. Also, the 12lta is much less picky than the TB or Fostex. The 12lta sounds good with a wider variety of music. If for some reason i want to listen to classical, the orchestra sounds vast and wide thru the 12lta while it sounds smaller on the TB/Fostex... But the TB and Fostex allow you to hear the rosin on the bow more easily than thru the 12lta. You give up something regardless of which you choose. But i still find the 12lta satisfying enough to give me a sense of 'accuracy' and can listen critically. But I find I listen more for pleasure these past few months and fiddle much less with the blending of the sub and tweeters.
Having said that the TB 1808 is a beautiful driver worth buying. I already have boxes for them half built and have decided to appreciate them as a true full range driver without sub or super tweeter (i may change my mind on both eventually, lol) in a more simple system. This cannot be done with the 12lta. There's a purity to the full range sound, warts and all, that i crave in my home or office and the TB is up to task... but not up to task for full blown, very loud, realistic levels i desire for Fleetwood Mac or James Taylor's live albums (among others) which sound amazing thru the 12lta.
Also, when listening to Rocky Horror Picture Show CD (which i enjoy) it never quite sounds right thru any speaker. But on the 12lta it sounds more listenable. Thru the TB and Fostex it sounds like crap.
The 12lta aint full range and needs to be part of a three way but in that fashion it makes a lot of music. Since you are used to the 12" 'wide range' sound why not consider others like the Audio Nirvana 12 inch? Going for smaller diameter drivers may disappoint you at this point... unless you are willing to trade scale and dynamics for somewhat more micro detail.
>>> Noew here's the "hijack" part: GM, Zilla, anyone - Do you think my 16-ohm Altec 416As are a viable candidate as an H-frame...
Not sure about the Altecs for H-frames but i appreciate the smaller H-frame footprint. It can't be tucked into a corner like JRKO's larger bass boxes so it's footprint may be about the same ultimately. It would be interesting to hear how different H-frames sound compared to the bigger sealed boxes but i have a feeling they will both produce great, enjoyable bass.
G'luck!
Scale is enormously important, especially for orchestral music. I think that's what won me over to the Betas in open baffle.
Me too, especially now that I've got the crossovers and amplification on the right path.
Lou Reed's Transformer remaster was doing the same to me. 70s rock is a great test case in general, I think, because of all the overdubbing that was going on, in different spaces, on different equipment, and then stitched together on 24-track decks and ultimately mixed for a Frankenblend of AM radio, FM radio, and the actual discerning public (sometimes).
If your system can get any sense "slam" and excitement at all out of the first note of "Time Warp," to me that is a sign that things are working well.
Have you heard and/or played with the Audio Nirvana? It does make me curious. Also curious about the Bastanis mid, with its felt dots. What the heck is up there? Who besides me thinks those are chair glides? It's an Eminence driver, BTW - makes you think . . .
Excuse me for my ignorance, but i think that eventually we will come to 15" tannoy's dual concentric 
. I myself could testify that most of statements said above are true.
First I built some sort of "ALL EMINENCE OB" with 6,5" eminence alpha and with helpers top and bottom(15"alpha and selenium st324 tweet). Than changed alphas for old oval iskras 6x9" and added another pair 15". In the meantime, i listened Econo Wave with Beymas 12" and selenium d220ti driver with waveguide. Also listened LARGE and expensive thiel drivers based 3 way system and now i am stuck with pair of tiny 3" Tang-Band's W3-823.
THE most biggest impression on me was the Tannoy Arden with HPD385. Although i could find many shortcomings in sound coming from that large boxes, that sense of presence, space and makrodynamics was curved into my memory. All these loudspeakers that i mentioned have their own "magic", where the econo wave would be my overall winner. BUT, if my current living space would allow, i would for sure go for something like new Tannoy royal 15", even if i didn't heard them.
. I myself could testify that most of statements said above are true. First I built some sort of "ALL EMINENCE OB" with 6,5" eminence alpha and with helpers top and bottom(15"alpha and selenium st324 tweet). Than changed alphas for old oval iskras 6x9" and added another pair 15". In the meantime, i listened Econo Wave with Beymas 12" and selenium d220ti driver with waveguide. Also listened LARGE and expensive thiel drivers based 3 way system and now i am stuck with pair of tiny 3" Tang-Band's W3-823.
THE most biggest impression on me was the Tannoy Arden with HPD385. Although i could find many shortcomings in sound coming from that large boxes, that sense of presence, space and makrodynamics was curved into my memory. All these loudspeakers that i mentioned have their own "magic", where the econo wave would be my overall winner. BUT, if my current living space would allow, i would for sure go for something like new Tannoy royal 15", even if i didn't heard them.
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Excuse me for my ignorance, but i think that eventually we will come to 15" tannoy's dual concentric
I've had some Tannoy Berkerley's (Its one down from the Arden) with the HPD385 in and I loved them dearly. I was trying to recreate that sense of scale and grandeur.
I must say, to my ears, I think I have surpassed them.
I'm sure that the bigger bass cabinet and wide range 12LTA make for better dynamics and information retrieval. Low level listening is far superior to the Tannoys as the full bandwidth is there no matter what the volume. My crossover is just 1 capacitor and this surely helps as the Tannoy unit is a complex adjustable system with 2 switches which must muddle the sound - that and the Tannoy crossover has to time align the two drivers and so is, by necessity, complex
Since appreciating what larger drivers can do I've been thinking how an NXT system on a giant pane of glass, taking up an entire wall, set 3 feet into the room, will sound... with helper woofers.
Happy the phase plugs made things sound better JRKO. I will be listening for their sonic contribution vs just removing the dustcap. I'm sending you an email.
Zilla
Happy the phase plugs made things sound better JRKO. I will be listening for their sonic contribution vs just removing the dustcap. I'm sending you an email.
Zilla
I need to get a life
Just got the knobs for my amp that is driving my speaker system. VERY VERY nice - Madagascan Rosewood:
55mm dia, 50mm tall and very sexy - I really need to get a life
Amp case is an empty Denon TU260II tuner box with a wooden front. LED's are let into the face from behind and shine from the back of the face plate. I'm using one of the HifiMeDIY amps with an Alps BLue 50k pot and a relay switched 4 input board that uses a rotary switch hence 2 knobs. Both are powered from the matching Meanwell PSU.
Just got the knobs for my amp that is driving my speaker system. VERY VERY nice - Madagascan Rosewood
:55mm dia, 50mm tall and very sexy - I really need to get a life
Amp case is an empty Denon TU260II tuner box with a wooden front. LED's are let into the face from behind and shine from the back of the face plate. I'm using one of the HifiMeDIY amps with an Alps BLue 50k pot and a relay switched 4 input board that uses a rotary switch hence 2 knobs. Both are powered from the matching Meanwell PSU.
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They have only about 2 mm of Xmax and Vas measured in the hundreds of liters, so get a big bass transient and there's a good chance the VC will either bottom out or jump clean out of the gap if there's enough power and may hang up going back in, so considering the cost of a re-cone, OB wouldn't be my first choice without a high pass to protect it unless flea powered. That, or a ~5 ft^3 ~aperiodic cab tuned to ~Fs which wouldn't be all that big in area if you took it vertical to get the horn up to ~ear height.
GM
painting the beasts up. Lots of acrylic eggshell - very tough and hard to mark.
Have front panels cut and am just going to add beveled edge to aid the 'dispersion-edge-diffraction-thingy-stuff' that GM was talking about. I don't claim to understand it but I know GM is a knowledgable, standup guy, and so I'm doing it.
Godzilla, have you received the phase plugs yet?
Have front panels cut and am just going to add beveled edge to aid the 'dispersion-edge-diffraction-thingy-stuff' that GM was talking about. I don't claim to understand it but I know GM is a knowledgable, standup guy, and so I'm doing it.
Godzilla, have you received the phase plugs yet?
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Consider them beveled! Handy having 2 woodworking places within 2min walk
Waiting on 4 Deflex acoustic panels to arrive. The ones that have a Fresnel lens pattern cut into them to disperse rearward reflections. I'm definitely going to use one in each 12LTA cabinet. They are 280mm x 210mm.
I guess one behind the driver. Not sure about the other ones. I guess they are not going to be much use inside my huge 15 cabinets?
How about 2 per 12LTA cabinet - one above and one below the driver on the top & bottom? These are the nearest panels to the driver.
What says you?
Waiting on 4 Deflex acoustic panels to arrive. The ones that have a Fresnel lens pattern cut into them to disperse rearward reflections. I'm definitely going to use one in each 12LTA cabinet. They are 280mm x 210mm.
I guess one behind the driver. Not sure about the other ones. I guess they are not going to be much use inside my huge 15 cabinets?
How about 2 per 12LTA cabinet - one above and one below the driver on the top & bottom? These are the nearest panels to the driver.
What says you?
I would put the tweeters on the outside and give a listen. That's how i would do it myself. As for the Deflex lol... i did notice a difference for the better when the cabs were fully stuffed... so using the Deflex to reduce reflections back towards the rear of the driver is important. Try one right behind the driver and one on the closest wall. Let us know if you hear a difference.
Zilla
Zilla
ashamed to ask
This is not strictly on subject but I can't face starting a new thread for what I think I may get grilled to death for. I'm asking it here because the guys participating here are cool and don't seem to mind my noobish queries.
Power supplies have always scared me. Don't know why. Maybe just because its where the 'mains' power is. That and the fact that toroids are quite dear and you need a specific one for each project etc etc.
I want to look at building a class A amp and was wondering - could I use an SMPS like the Meanwell power supplies that hifimediy.com sell. They are so cheap and easy. The big 48v one can output 41-56v and 7.3 amps - more than enough.
Go on, shoot me down. I need to learn.
This is not strictly on subject but I can't face starting a new thread for what I think I may get grilled to death for. I'm asking it here because the guys participating here are cool and don't seem to mind my noobish queries.
Power supplies have always scared me. Don't know why. Maybe just because its where the 'mains' power is. That and the fact that toroids are quite dear and you need a specific one for each project etc etc.
I want to look at building a class A amp and was wondering - could I use an SMPS like the Meanwell power supplies that hifimediy.com sell. They are so cheap and easy. The big 48v one can output 41-56v and 7.3 amps - more than enough.
Go on, shoot me down. I need to learn.
Hi,
Switched mode supplies are efficient and cheap. They also dump ton's of really spikey RF noise into their input AND output. They CAN be quieteted WAY DOWN.
I once used a Switched mode supply to power a zero feedback MC sensitive phonostage (l'Audiophile Pacific) and I could not see any RF noise on the output using a 100MHz/1mV 'scope. But the amount of ferrite beads and LC filtering I needed to squash the noise down like that was bigger than the plugtop supply I used and it took me ages to get it down to that.
More recently, my "bedroom radio" (a linksys streaming media Jukebox) had major "chirpies" from the speakers, even with no signal, due to Power Amp chip with little noise immunity at high frequiencies while using a switch mode supply.
The LC filtering it took to kill this was bigger than the actual amplifier PCB!!!
So, maybe consider paying for a real supply after all...
Ciao T
Switched mode supplies are efficient and cheap. They also dump ton's of really spikey RF noise into their input AND output. They CAN be quieteted WAY DOWN.
I once used a Switched mode supply to power a zero feedback MC sensitive phonostage (l'Audiophile Pacific) and I could not see any RF noise on the output using a 100MHz/1mV 'scope. But the amount of ferrite beads and LC filtering I needed to squash the noise down like that was bigger than the plugtop supply I used and it took me ages to get it down to that.
More recently, my "bedroom radio" (a linksys streaming media Jukebox) had major "chirpies" from the speakers, even with no signal, due to Power Amp chip with little noise immunity at high frequiencies while using a switch mode supply.
The LC filtering it took to kill this was bigger than the actual amplifier PCB!!!
So, maybe consider paying for a real supply after all...
Ciao T
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