They aren't that bad, although cheap isn't the first word that springs to mind (no, I can't afford them either). Compared to the suicidally expensive Feastex units, they, & the big Supravox drivers, are a positive bargin, especially if the quasi-trad engineering appeals. Unfortunately, WRT drivers, you generally get what you pay for.
Scott
PS -the Accousta cabs aren't an especially great example of BLH design. I'd sell them on if I were you & put the money toward some new drivers, or more music.
Scott
PS -the Accousta cabs aren't an especially great example of BLH design. I'd sell them on if I were you & put the money toward some new drivers, or more music.
NJE807 said:
I've heard both the PHY 8" "full-range" in the "recommended TQWP, (sorry, but fore me really needs a tweeter), and the 12" Coax in the large OB Panels at a local dealer.
I guess there's a kind of Gallic charm about them that escaped me, but then again it could have been the electronics (IIRC some combination of KR / Wytech / AudioNote?) For around the same price I paid for my current house (circa 1988 / $90,000) you'd have expected something more life changing than that, yes?
OTOH, one of the more distinct impressions I can remember from the last VSAC (so that was 5yrs ago), was the Rethm 2nd, with modified Lowthers, driven by deHaviland amps. Scary good, and a bargoon at whatever price.
felixx said:
If DaveCan wants to check those out, they have a pair at Sound Hounds collecting dust. When i 1st heard them, i thot they had potential. 2nd time i heard them -- in a different room -- they (or more properly, the system) was just terrible. Haven't had a chance to listen to them since.
dave
Dave you have a set....
what about a used set of Acoustat 0ne plus 0ne's (or two's or 2+2's or)? They can be found in good condition for $400 - 600. They can be modified and brought up into the new melineum. With a good amp they can make more bass than most small FR cones out there. They can play loud and are as dynamic as a ribbon or a horn.
I rebuilt a couple of sets this spring and they put my Fostex to shame. I just cannot see going back to a cone again. I have some low micron Mylar awaitng a new set of panels (5.5 times thinner than the stock diaphragms). Even the stock panels sound wonderful with the new interface mods. Worth considering.
what about a used set of Acoustat 0ne plus 0ne's (or two's or 2+2's or)? They can be found in good condition for $400 - 600. They can be modified and brought up into the new melineum. With a good amp they can make more bass than most small FR cones out there. They can play loud and are as dynamic as a ribbon or a horn.
I rebuilt a couple of sets this spring and they put my Fostex to shame. I just cannot see going back to a cone again. I have some low micron Mylar awaitng a new set of panels (5.5 times thinner than the stock diaphragms). Even the stock panels sound wonderful with the new interface mods. Worth considering.
I hear what you are saying about the acousta's Scott, I would just like to listen to them one day, and see what all the fuss is about. They seem to court strong divided opinions, some love them, some hate them. And I agree with you there are much better BLH designs out there these days, especially if you've spent so much on the drivers.
I shall keep playing with my OB's for the moment.
I shall keep playing with my OB's for the moment.
Re: Dave you have a set....
WOW! I've used up to six panels a side and have to say they are no where even close to being as dynamic as horn speakers. Not even close, even with 700 watts a channel the suck badly in dynamics. Cohesive? Excellent- - Dynamics? Totally compressed and lifeless.
What kind of horns have you built?
moray james said:
WOW! I've used up to six panels a side and have to say they are no where even close to being as dynamic as horn speakers. Not even close, even with 700 watts a channel the suck badly in dynamics. Cohesive? Excellent- - Dynamics? Totally compressed and lifeless.
What kind of horns have you built?
a small assortment.. of back loaded horns using small FR drivers ...
three sets of Fitzmorice "Snails" and I ran a set of Lamda Unity horns. So no I do not have your hands on experience. I do know that with an amp that is happy to work into them that Acoustats can sound very good and with an amp that does not like the load they can sound like crap. I have run Stats longer than I have dynamic speakers. In the context of this thread I do not hear much if any comparrison between Stats and the fullrange drivers I have used (mostly Fostex). I do know that running the bias voltage up to the max the panel will handel and doing a few other mods will make a world of difference with Acoustats or any other stat. They can and do sound wonderful. No they will not play as loud as a large horn system nothing does. Given a set of 0ne plus 0nes and a pair of subs you can satisfy a good number of audiophile types. Different strokes and they (for the most part) take up a lot less room than a horn set up. If you like they have been horn loaded. Something for everyone. I would love to have the chance to hear one of your set up and I think that I would probably like it a lot. But this is not a contest and there are lots of folks who would not require the level that a big horn rig can produce. I stand by what I said and if we disagree that's ok and if you think I am wrong that's ok too. I would still like to hear your OB rig. Best regards Moray James.
three sets of Fitzmorice "Snails" and I ran a set of Lamda Unity horns. So no I do not have your hands on experience. I do know that with an amp that is happy to work into them that Acoustats can sound very good and with an amp that does not like the load they can sound like crap. I have run Stats longer than I have dynamic speakers. In the context of this thread I do not hear much if any comparrison between Stats and the fullrange drivers I have used (mostly Fostex). I do know that running the bias voltage up to the max the panel will handel and doing a few other mods will make a world of difference with Acoustats or any other stat. They can and do sound wonderful. No they will not play as loud as a large horn system nothing does. Given a set of 0ne plus 0nes and a pair of subs you can satisfy a good number of audiophile types. Different strokes and they (for the most part) take up a lot less room than a horn set up. If you like they have been horn loaded. Something for everyone. I would love to have the chance to hear one of your set up and I think that I would probably like it a lot. But this is not a contest and there are lots of folks who would not require the level that a big horn rig can produce. I stand by what I said and if we disagree that's ok and if you think I am wrong that's ok too. I would still like to hear your OB rig. Best regards Moray James.
Re: a small assortment.. of back loaded horns using small FR drivers ...
I used classe' m700 mono amps, the big Acoustat SS amp and the big Moscode. I think we have a different perspective on dynamics- no problem - I think everyone does- I tend to be in the WOW horn dynamic club. The Acoustats can be a WONDERFUL speaker (a steal used) for the right people. I like them lots for what they do right.
moray james said:
I used classe' m700 mono amps, the big Acoustat SS amp and the big Moscode. I think we have a different perspective on dynamics- no problem - I think everyone does- I tend to be in the WOW horn dynamic club. The Acoustats can be a WONDERFUL speaker (a steal used) for the right people. I like them lots for what they do right.
we could let DaveD pipe in with his Acoustat + sub experience, but regardless, suffice to say that different strokes etc.
My own experience with ESL57 as part of a full FM3/33/303 rig 35yrs(I just did the math
) and Acoustat 2s with PS Audio brick amp (model # escapes me) was less than overwhelming. Aside from the physical space that any dipole / planar panel requires, both of these were missing something.
Between the 2 'stats, the most involving and frustrating speaker I loved & only sometimes hated, was the Dahlquist DQ10. For me they did most things better than the ESL, albeit within even more power appetite, and no better a WAF.
Interestingly enough, the cute little dynamic 2-way that replaced the Acoustats was the Spica SC50 - along with the DQ10, on the short list of audio gear I regret letting go.
My own experience with ESL57 as part of a full FM3/33/303 rig 35yrs(I just did the math
) and Acoustat 2s with PS Audio brick amp (model # escapes me) was less than overwhelming. Aside from the physical space that any dipole / planar panel requires, both of these were missing something. Between the 2 'stats, the most involving and frustrating speaker I loved & only sometimes hated, was the Dahlquist DQ10. For me they did most things better than the ESL, albeit within even more power appetite, and no better a WAF.
Interestingly enough, the cute little dynamic 2-way that replaced the Acoustats was the Spica SC50 - along with the DQ10, on the short list of audio gear I regret letting go.
Interestingly enough, the cute little dynamic 2-way that replaced the Acoustats was the Spica SC50 - along with the DQ10, on the short list of audio gear I regret letting go.
[/B]
I have a friend that still has a pair of tweaked out DQ10's with matching subwoofer that still sounds great in his little room (200 watt per channel conrad johnson tube amp and vinyl)- He has had them since they came out - The little Spica's? Not at all my cup of tea, they had good 'imaging' but at the expensive of a very weak low midrange and bass. I can care less about imaging if the tone isn't correct - something the big meddallion transformered Acoustats do well in their limited listening window. Get outside the window and they sound pretty bad.
I never 'got' the mini-monitor thing., and I still don't get the little 8" whizzer thing- so I'm out of here -
Thanks, all of you guys.
Is B20 listenable without a super-tweeter?
Will B200 give better bass?
Does F200A in a TL really go down to 30? I have not read much positive info for this driver.
Does EX2 worth its price?
And what about JX92S? Although it is only 14cm some people say it does have bass.
Anyone listen to Audio Nirvana 12''?
AER, PHY-HP, REPS, FEASTREX and other expensive fullrangers are out of the question (for now).
Is B20 listenable without a super-tweeter?
Will B200 give better bass?
Does F200A in a TL really go down to 30? I have not read much positive info for this driver.
Does EX2 worth its price?
And what about JX92S? Although it is only 14cm some people say it does have bass.
Anyone listen to Audio Nirvana 12''?
AER, PHY-HP, REPS, FEASTREX and other expensive fullrangers are out of the question (for now).
Hi extremis,
I do not have unswer to any of your questions, but have you considered coaxial driver? Does it have to be one fullrange driver? You know there are certain compromises to be made by the designer, if he wants to have great hights and mids, than he must sacrifice somewhere else. If he makes great bass, something else is lost and so on. If you would read all the above posts with all the comments and recommendations, you could easilly unswer all your questions. Or are you just asking to provoke more for further discussion? Or you really did not understand what others were telling you about fullrange and great bass?
Why not consider coaxial driver? They come in many sizes... 8", 10", 12"...even 15", with significant low fr extension. They usually have horn loaded tweeter, with excelent upper fr extension. They handle lots of power. Cost? It depends...it goes both ways.
Ed
I do not have unswer to any of your questions, but have you considered coaxial driver? Does it have to be one fullrange driver? You know there are certain compromises to be made by the designer, if he wants to have great hights and mids, than he must sacrifice somewhere else. If he makes great bass, something else is lost and so on. If you would read all the above posts with all the comments and recommendations, you could easilly unswer all your questions. Or are you just asking to provoke more for further discussion? Or you really did not understand what others were telling you about fullrange and great bass?
Why not consider coaxial driver? They come in many sizes... 8", 10", 12"...even 15", with significant low fr extension. They usually have horn loaded tweeter, with excelent upper fr extension. They handle lots of power. Cost? It depends...it goes both ways.
Ed
adason said:
good suggestion by Ed - for example, Hawthorne Silver Iris series of custom spec'd Eminence drivers - starting at $290/pr
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/drivers.htm
of course, you can get just as silly spendy with either vintage or new production (particularly with some of the European designs) co-axes as with anything audio
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