The big cap, it will most likely fail if I try to change the lead just any bit
I need to be exstremely careful with that one
The next cap, I just bent the lead right now
And in the the next picture its perfectly straight again
I can repeat it almost forever without problems
I need to be exstremely careful with that one
The next cap, I just bent the lead right now
And in the the next picture its perfectly straight again
I can repeat it almost forever without problems
Attachments
I never claimed any authority or power, but I did start this thread for a purpose. I claimed that I found an unknown entity that performed above my expectations, better than another well known cap I compared to it, and I am trying to make others aware of it. Then the blowhards swept in with all their gibberish about this cap and that cap, no cap, blah blah blah. If anyone is interested in making their own comparisons, perhaps they'll have something valuable to report.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to challenge me and insult my post, but I'm not surprised by such a response from someone who has nothing useful to contribute other than trite platitudes.
I do enjoy reading people's impressions of other caps. I have read hundreds of posts here and elsewhere that describe the sound of caps. But I have never seen any reference to this particular cap. That's why I started this thread. If you think it was bad to begin with, why are you still reading on page 4?
I am somewhat surprised by the frequency with which others rudely hijack a thread with postings that have almost no bearing on the original topic. Some people must believe that every bit of boring nonsense they can think of writing is important.
Regards,
Tom E
Simply that your listed personal posting requirements seems to be that everyone should suspend their thought process and objectivity in order to take part. Everything after that is comedy. You've also contradicted yourself on several occasions by saying things like you enjoy reading impressions of caps and welcome them, when you clearly don't. It ends up with you as the almighty "blowhard" that's spewing "gibberish". You've apparently tried all kinds of caps but failed to name any of them except for the mundorf, where the others, if any, could have been any junk. Of course the implication of the effort lends itself credibility somehow. Your "blind test" with friends wasn't, because you "tried to fool them", and so on. If sound and emotions are so subjective how is it you all agreed, if they weren't led by the nose? Why should you strive to poorly make use of a scientific method of arguable worth to sway us with after telling us in so many words to suspend our objectivity? Had you simply stated you thought X was a good cap, then fine, but you made a big show and tell after laying down your law and it's law I find in error. You seeded yourself a "cap war" and it was evident in your first line "at the risk of", so now enjoy the fruits of your labor without further complaint. You've also stated it's not a cheap cap, know there are lots of others out there you didn't try, but you're done testing. How good is it really then, apparently only as much as the Mundorf SIO, but who is to say whether it was best for the job to begin with, just you. It seems questionable to use the infamy of a supposedly high end product to support your preference, as well as apparently that of your friends. People of course took your bait in good faith, continued with a reasonable discussion, that you conveniently complained about rather humourously by insulting them further: "We hear from the know-it-alls and tried-it-alls who have nothing new to offer other than their own bloated expert opinions". Hahahahaaaa. "bolstering their own smug self-satisfaction that they know something they think we don't" You're such a victim I've soaked my crying towel. All I see you doing is baiting traps, and you're not very good at it. There's simply no inclination to use an expensive cap with exotic foils when it's using the cheapest possible dielectric. It's just not going to be anything special, and there's far better for less money available. So consider there being a reason for nobody having heard of your recommendation, or even taking this very seriously.
I'd have a question for anyone able to answer...
I've noticed (with a magnet) that the Wima MKS2 (4.7uF 50V) have magnetic leads, while the Wima MKS02 (100nF 63V) have non-magnetic leads.
So (for signal coupling in my DAC) I've thought of switching caps from MKS2 (4.7uF 50V) to MKS02, 1uF 50V.
The question is: is it worth it? Can I rest assured that the 1uF MKS 02 will have non magnetic leads like the tiny 100nF ?
Or should I consider a .47uF 250V MKS4 instead? There's not much room in there... and typical load impedance is 47K, so even .47uF is fine.
Thanks
I've noticed (with a magnet) that the Wima MKS2 (4.7uF 50V) have magnetic leads, while the Wima MKS02 (100nF 63V) have non-magnetic leads.
So (for signal coupling in my DAC) I've thought of switching caps from MKS2 (4.7uF 50V) to MKS02, 1uF 50V.
The question is: is it worth it? Can I rest assured that the 1uF MKS 02 will have non magnetic leads like the tiny 100nF ?
Or should I consider a .47uF 250V MKS4 instead? There's not much room in there... and typical load impedance is 47K, so even .47uF is fine.
Thanks
I have one LCR but if you want to buy a decent cost 200€00-300€00 (not the best, but good quality), possibly will be one reason, the other reason is that audiophiles don't know how to use it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Merlin El Mago
There's a lot of great sounding caps out there and the ones I have tested for linearity a-la Steve Bench, as well as with my ears have been all under $5.
Extremely low level (phono, microphone): Panasonic ECQ series polyprops, Most polystyrene (those ones you can scavenge from old cassette players) and the Epcos MKP pulse-rated caps.
Line level: Most MKP types from any manufacturer. PPS types. The USA made STK polypropylene are extremely linear under any DC bias (or lack thereof) and sound great AND have steel leads.
High level (power amp circuit coupling): Here's where the PTFE/PIO/MKP/MPP battle breaks down for me... can't hear the difference in comparably manufactured capacitors and nor can most people when I audition amps in public.
Cheers!
In general I agree totally with what you have written.
Merlin El Mago
Thanks for the reply...
Not at all. I was just wondering about sound quality, although I'm already happy as it is. It's more of a slight paranoia about any conductors containing steel in them
but I understand that low level signals travel on the surface of the lead, which I assume is a copper + tin plating.James J:
I don't know what makes you feel superior and capable of passing such harsh judgment when all I did was offer an opinion, based on my experience. I'm not sure why you have a vendetta against me, but it is obvious you have nothing of value to bring to this discussion other than criticism and personal insults. I'm not sure why the moderator allows this type of behavior.
At what point did I suggest that anyone suspend thinking objectively? On the contrary, I enjoy discussion when it has some bearing on the topic and demonstrates some thought and not simply hollow claims that "this cap is great". Now I see postings about bending leads and the material used in them. How in the world does that relate to discussing a comparison of caps? Do you idiots post the first thing that pops into your head when you see the word "caps"?
The only reason I didn't list all the caps I tried is that I didn't want to make the post any longer or bore people with things they might already know. I used Mundorf SIO as a standard for comparison because it is a cap many people might be familiar with, it is usually very highly rated in other cap shootouts, and it's the best one of all the others I tried before the Fostex. I don't know if it's the best cap for this application or any other. I intentionally used quote marks around the word best in the thread title because I was not claiming it to be the best of all. It's the best I tried. I would like to experiment more with some of the others suggested here and elsewhere, but I can't afford it. I'm done testing because I'm satisfied, not because there might not be better choices.
I know my test was probably not scientifically valid, but at least it was better than sitting down by myself and making a choice while knowing which cap was where. I was very surprised and happy that all three of us agreed on which cap sounded better. I was very careful to not state my opinion beforehand or try to influence the other listeners. I wanted their honest opinions. You weren't there, so your suspicions are nothing more than another groundless attack.
I stated an opinion on an unknown product so that others might learn from my experience. I provided some evidence that my opinion was in agreement with two other, unbiased listeners. That's all I did. I never proclaimed a law or discouraged others with USEFUL information from participating. I simply cannot fathom your reason for behaving so belligerently. You're the one making proclamations that the Fostex can't possibly be any good because it uses "the cheapest possible dielectric". You are so wise that you can pass judgment without even hearing it. I find that to be a very good exhibition of stupid pomposity, which is exactly what I was hoping to avoid here. Thanks for wrecking the thread with your pointless arguments.
Regards,
Tom E
I don't know what makes you feel superior and capable of passing such harsh judgment when all I did was offer an opinion, based on my experience. I'm not sure why you have a vendetta against me, but it is obvious you have nothing of value to bring to this discussion other than criticism and personal insults. I'm not sure why the moderator allows this type of behavior.
At what point did I suggest that anyone suspend thinking objectively? On the contrary, I enjoy discussion when it has some bearing on the topic and demonstrates some thought and not simply hollow claims that "this cap is great". Now I see postings about bending leads and the material used in them. How in the world does that relate to discussing a comparison of caps? Do you idiots post the first thing that pops into your head when you see the word "caps"?
The only reason I didn't list all the caps I tried is that I didn't want to make the post any longer or bore people with things they might already know. I used Mundorf SIO as a standard for comparison because it is a cap many people might be familiar with, it is usually very highly rated in other cap shootouts, and it's the best one of all the others I tried before the Fostex. I don't know if it's the best cap for this application or any other. I intentionally used quote marks around the word best in the thread title because I was not claiming it to be the best of all. It's the best I tried. I would like to experiment more with some of the others suggested here and elsewhere, but I can't afford it. I'm done testing because I'm satisfied, not because there might not be better choices.
I know my test was probably not scientifically valid, but at least it was better than sitting down by myself and making a choice while knowing which cap was where. I was very surprised and happy that all three of us agreed on which cap sounded better. I was very careful to not state my opinion beforehand or try to influence the other listeners. I wanted their honest opinions. You weren't there, so your suspicions are nothing more than another groundless attack.
I stated an opinion on an unknown product so that others might learn from my experience. I provided some evidence that my opinion was in agreement with two other, unbiased listeners. That's all I did. I never proclaimed a law or discouraged others with USEFUL information from participating. I simply cannot fathom your reason for behaving so belligerently. You're the one making proclamations that the Fostex can't possibly be any good because it uses "the cheapest possible dielectric". You are so wise that you can pass judgment without even hearing it. I find that to be a very good exhibition of stupid pomposity, which is exactly what I was hoping to avoid here. Thanks for wrecking the thread with your pointless arguments.
Regards,
Tom E
Ltralus and madisonears, cut out the personal stuff immediately. No further warnings.
Cap wars
Im of the no cap is better opinion, but Ive experimented with caps too as in dc blocking positions, used earphones with simple headphone circuit to search for a cap where I couldnt hear any diffrence with the cap in place or without it.
I agree 100 percent with Kurt, a lot of these so called fancy mega buck caps do sound pleasant and all different but the thing is ideally it shouldnt have any sound of its own, The circuit doesnt need a cap but if it did what would I use??
Well in certain circumstances with the circuit I actually prefered the sound with the cap in place, but this is wrong as its clearly having an influence on the sound it shouldnt.
After testing various and some very expensive caps I came to the conclusion that even using some of the cheaper polyprop get anywhere caps came as close as being no cap to these special megabuc caps.
Im of the no cap is better opinion, but Ive experimented with caps too as in dc blocking positions, used earphones with simple headphone circuit to search for a cap where I couldnt hear any diffrence with the cap in place or without it.
I agree 100 percent with Kurt, a lot of these so called fancy mega buck caps do sound pleasant and all different but the thing is ideally it shouldnt have any sound of its own, The circuit doesnt need a cap but if it did what would I use??
Well in certain circumstances with the circuit I actually prefered the sound with the cap in place, but this is wrong as its clearly having an influence on the sound it shouldnt.
After testing various and some very expensive caps I came to the conclusion that even using some of the cheaper polyprop get anywhere caps came as close as being no cap to these special megabuc caps.
Cap wars
Im of the no cap is better opinion, but Ive experimented with caps too as in dc blocking positions, used earphones with simple headphone circuit to search for a cap where I couldnt hear any diffrence with the cap in place or without it."
At least you took the time to experiment and compare for yourself, although I'm not sure listening through headphones is always the best way to hear what your speakers will sound like. I, too, struggled with the concept that no cap is better: to risk possible damage to amp or speakers or compromise the circuit with one that sounds good.
"Well in certain circumstances with the circuit I actually prefered the sound with the cap in place, but this is wrong as its clearly having an influence on the sound it shouldnt."
If you prefer the sound with a cap, why is it wrong to use one? It's entirely possible that the Fostex or any other cap is making the system sound better with some coloration, and the Mundorf may very well be passing the signal more accurately. So which is the better choice, in this case? Do I sit in front of my stereo thinking "Darn, this sure sounds accurate", or would I prefer to listen to music that pleases me? That is why I sought the unbiased input of two trusted friends. The fact that we all agreed that one sounded better settled the argument in my own head. Now I don't really care about how accurate or truthful things sound, only that it sounds good. And I know that, with a blocking cap in place, I don't risk blowing up my speakers. At least, not because of amplified DC!
Peace,
Tom E
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A good set of headphones like akgs or seinheisers are much better sonically than most speakers that cost 100 times more, I happen to have electrostatik pair, havent come across any speakers at any price that even comes close.
Its wrong to use because its obviously coloring the music, though pleasant its inaccurate. Its quite impossible that a mundorff is passing the signal more accurately than a straight shielded copper wire.
Some people prefer when their equipment is playing music inaccurate, meaning it doesnt sound like what it does in real life, some tube amps display this property, they have a warmth associated but some overdo it, and yet it sounds pleasingly and I also like it but it doesnt reproduce the exact real sound.
Its wrong to use because its obviously coloring the music, though pleasant its inaccurate. Its quite impossible that a mundorff is passing the signal more accurately than a straight shielded copper wire.
Some people prefer when their equipment is playing music inaccurate, meaning it doesnt sound like what it does in real life, some tube amps display this property, they have a warmth associated but some overdo it, and yet it sounds pleasingly and I also like it but it doesnt reproduce the exact real sound.
It is a good thing to be aware, that often conclusions - even ones own - are mostly based on capacitors in a certain context.
I cannot conclude anything regarding capacitors in tube gear, as I do not have any tube gear, and it is unlikely that I´ll ever get some.
To make universal usable conclusions IMHO you´ll have to find out if it works in other contexts.
That could be done by putting in an extra capacitor, and listen or differences. Or trying to listen to caps in a set-up where there is no caps in the signal path at all.
Then you´ll know which one adds the least colouration, which then should be regarded as the best cap.
The mega buck super de luxe waximpregnated, golden foil, diamond decorated caps IMHO often flaws completely when done this way.
I cannot conclude anything regarding capacitors in tube gear, as I do not have any tube gear, and it is unlikely that I´ll ever get some.
To make universal usable conclusions IMHO you´ll have to find out if it works in other contexts.
That could be done by putting in an extra capacitor, and listen or differences. Or trying to listen to caps in a set-up where there is no caps in the signal path at all.
Then you´ll know which one adds the least colouration, which then should be regarded as the best cap.
The mega buck super de luxe waximpregnated, golden foil, diamond decorated caps IMHO often flaws completely when done this way.
One thing I've made sure -- a Solen MKP cap sounds muuuuch better than a Wima MKS2 in the (line level) signal path.
I think you are comparing Polyester with polypropylene, which is not quite fair, as polypropylene by far is regarded as the best of those two dielectrics.
Wima is also obtainable in polypropylene called MKP or Polyphenylene Sulfid called MKI
Yes, well, I saw it like I was comparing one film cap to another. The Wima (thanks to being polyester & lower voltage) being tiny in size compared to the Solen.
But I didn't expect to appreciate such a big difference between two film caps.
I did use Wima MKP4 before, in an older version of the same DAC... was good, sure, but I don't recall being impressed with such a big difference, even if they came after the stock (chip-type tantalum? I'm pretty sure) output decoupling caps.
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