Which are the "best" Compression Drivers today in the Year 2022?
Yes maybe TAD but I mean something which is payable. I don't want to spent 4000€ for one Driver....
-Radian 951BE?
-Eighteen sound ND4015BE? ND 1480BE? ND3BE?
The Crossover point should be not higher than 800Hz. Above 1000Hz I would take an AMT like Mundorf Pro AMT 197PP27R-740-CDH...
Yes maybe TAD but I mean something which is payable. I don't want to spent 4000€ for one Driver....
-Radian 951BE?
-Eighteen sound ND4015BE? ND 1480BE? ND3BE?
The Crossover point should be not higher than 800Hz. Above 1000Hz I would take an AMT like Mundorf Pro AMT 197PP27R-740-CDH...
Hi Zvu,
thank you for your recommendations.
The Celestion Axi2050 was my favorite driver but some people who have tested both Radian 950BE or 951BE liked them more ;even here in this forum. But they are nearly double priced and the crossover point is one octave higher (Axi2050: 300 / Radian: 600Hz) so even the expensive Celestion Axi2050 has a much better value.
It would be interesting to compare the PB Versions with Axi2050 not the Beryllium Versions. Did someone?
And I don't want to use the Axi2050 fullrange because it a 2" CD will start beaming early and the quality of the high frequency will be not good enough (Higher Distortion and Resonances?)
The BMS 4592 has some other problems I have heard about:
-Chamber Resonances
-high tweeter distortion
-tweeter crossover problems
But thank you for your help
thank you for your recommendations.
The Celestion Axi2050 was my favorite driver but some people who have tested both Radian 950BE or 951BE liked them more ;even here in this forum. But they are nearly double priced and the crossover point is one octave higher (Axi2050: 300 / Radian: 600Hz) so even the expensive Celestion Axi2050 has a much better value.
It would be interesting to compare the PB Versions with Axi2050 not the Beryllium Versions. Did someone?
And I don't want to use the Axi2050 fullrange because it a 2" CD will start beaming early and the quality of the high frequency will be not good enough (Higher Distortion and Resonances?)
The BMS 4592 has some other problems I have heard about:
-Chamber Resonances
-high tweeter distortion
-tweeter crossover problems
But thank you for your help
I use the BMS 4596nd from 340hz to 2000hz from 2000hz and up I use a Beyma tpl-150 in horns. Similar to op interest.
I had tad-4001 before and only liked them when I needed to try to cut really high or wanted to try to get away with only two ways which I never liked anyway.
When I needed to cut under 4000-6000hz i much prefer my radian aluminium diaphragm on old JBL alnico motors or the radian 950pb. The small diaphragm on the tad would force me to cut very high in the 600-700hz on my 320hz horns where the pb950 would work around 440-500hz. I had the 950 be diaphragm too but would still prefer the aluminium diaphragm when using them under 4000-6000hz. I had no use of trying to extend in the highs and use active crossover so my filter are quite step and breakup are not a factor for me.
Recently I got a pair of 4596nd single diaphragm and from 340hz to 2600hz they beat everything I tried before on the same horns. I didn't need a coaxial so I was looking for the 4592-mid or the 4596 or axi2050. Got a deal on 4596 and really like them. I hope to be able to test the axi2050 in comparison eventually.
My BMS 4596 have a very smooth top end roll off that would make an integration with a tweeter very easy on passive crossover.
Op solution to get to 1000hz and then use a large amt (i would not go as low as 1000hz but more around 2000hz to match directivity) open the door for large diaphragm like the BMS non coaxial 4592-mid 4596nd, axi2050 etc. Radian neodinium are very good too if the horns are smaller.
I had tad-4001 before and only liked them when I needed to try to cut really high or wanted to try to get away with only two ways which I never liked anyway.
When I needed to cut under 4000-6000hz i much prefer my radian aluminium diaphragm on old JBL alnico motors or the radian 950pb. The small diaphragm on the tad would force me to cut very high in the 600-700hz on my 320hz horns where the pb950 would work around 440-500hz. I had the 950 be diaphragm too but would still prefer the aluminium diaphragm when using them under 4000-6000hz. I had no use of trying to extend in the highs and use active crossover so my filter are quite step and breakup are not a factor for me.
Recently I got a pair of 4596nd single diaphragm and from 340hz to 2600hz they beat everything I tried before on the same horns. I didn't need a coaxial so I was looking for the 4592-mid or the 4596 or axi2050. Got a deal on 4596 and really like them. I hope to be able to test the axi2050 in comparison eventually.
My BMS 4596 have a very smooth top end roll off that would make an integration with a tweeter very easy on passive crossover.
Op solution to get to 1000hz and then use a large amt (i would not go as low as 1000hz but more around 2000hz to match directivity) open the door for large diaphragm like the BMS non coaxial 4592-mid 4596nd, axi2050 etc. Radian neodinium are very good too if the horns are smaller.
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I've listened to a few 2" compression drivers, and have owned TAD TD-4002s for over 12 years--on my K-402 horns. They are the standard by which I judge other drivers.
More recently (last March), I evaluated a Celestion Axi2050 on a K-402 horn in a stereo arrangement with the other K-402 mounting a TAD TD-4002. Since the transfer function of the two drivers/horns in-room were essentially the same, I was able to listen to them in as a stereo pair. My comments are found here:
https://community.klipsch.com/index...on-driver-on-k-402-horn-and-jubilee-bass-bin/
I also run a BMS 4592ND (bi-amped) in my center K-402-MEH--a full-range loudspeaker based in a three-way (including the 4592's two diaphragms) multiple entry horn using dual 15" woofers-- discussed more here: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/161404-a-k-402-based-full-range-multiple-entry-horn/.
All in all, I don't believe that your focus on harmonic distortion (HD) is a good way to evaluate these drivers--at all. In my experience, the factors that are audible that differentiate the drivers are:
1) smooth non-breakup SPL and phase performance above 6-7 kHz (very audible)
2) timbre of the driver vis-à-vis TAD TD-4002s (almost as audible, but requiring significantly more time to evaluate using a variety of recordings)
3) "sparkle" or lightness to the presentation that correlates with the diaphragm's ability to play without breakup with ease above 10 kHz (least audible and requiring many hours of listening to form an impression--greater than 20 hours.
Under this scale, my impressions are the following (fully dialed-in drivers/K-402 horns using First Watt F3):
1) TAD TD-4002: no coloration, no audible diaphragm breakup even at high SPL, and plenty of naturalness and sparkle.
2) Celestion Axi2050: no coloration, no audible breakup on cymbals, etc., but slightly lower sparkle and naturalness, almost not audible even after many listening hours.
3) BMS 4592ND (bi-amped, time aligned): no coloration, no audible breakup on cymbals, etc., but slightly more irregular SPL response around the internal two diaphragm crossover point (~6 kHz). No real audible differences between the TD-4002s and the 4592NDs.
All three have almost no differences in listening quality, especially after using a "phase plug extension" (or otherwise described as a horn throat diverging acoustic lens) that spreads out the polars of the 2" diameter throat, which doesn't affect on-axis SPL response, but significant increases the large off-axis timbre consistency. I would seriously doubt anyone could tell the difference under blind test conditions. I haven't heard any other drivers (including AMTs, etc.) that could match the presentation of these three drivers on a K-402 horn, fully dialed-in.
I can answer more questions about the differences, above and the other drivers/horns that I've evaluated, but this is a good place stop for now.
Chris
More recently (last March), I evaluated a Celestion Axi2050 on a K-402 horn in a stereo arrangement with the other K-402 mounting a TAD TD-4002. Since the transfer function of the two drivers/horns in-room were essentially the same, I was able to listen to them in as a stereo pair. My comments are found here:
https://community.klipsch.com/index...on-driver-on-k-402-horn-and-jubilee-bass-bin/
I also run a BMS 4592ND (bi-amped) in my center K-402-MEH--a full-range loudspeaker based in a three-way (including the 4592's two diaphragms) multiple entry horn using dual 15" woofers-- discussed more here: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/161404-a-k-402-based-full-range-multiple-entry-horn/.
All in all, I don't believe that your focus on harmonic distortion (HD) is a good way to evaluate these drivers--at all. In my experience, the factors that are audible that differentiate the drivers are:
1) smooth non-breakup SPL and phase performance above 6-7 kHz (very audible)
2) timbre of the driver vis-à-vis TAD TD-4002s (almost as audible, but requiring significantly more time to evaluate using a variety of recordings)
3) "sparkle" or lightness to the presentation that correlates with the diaphragm's ability to play without breakup with ease above 10 kHz (least audible and requiring many hours of listening to form an impression--greater than 20 hours.
Under this scale, my impressions are the following (fully dialed-in drivers/K-402 horns using First Watt F3):
1) TAD TD-4002: no coloration, no audible diaphragm breakup even at high SPL, and plenty of naturalness and sparkle.
2) Celestion Axi2050: no coloration, no audible breakup on cymbals, etc., but slightly lower sparkle and naturalness, almost not audible even after many listening hours.
3) BMS 4592ND (bi-amped, time aligned): no coloration, no audible breakup on cymbals, etc., but slightly more irregular SPL response around the internal two diaphragm crossover point (~6 kHz). No real audible differences between the TD-4002s and the 4592NDs.
All three have almost no differences in listening quality, especially after using a "phase plug extension" (or otherwise described as a horn throat diverging acoustic lens) that spreads out the polars of the 2" diameter throat, which doesn't affect on-axis SPL response, but significant increases the large off-axis timbre consistency. I would seriously doubt anyone could tell the difference under blind test conditions. I haven't heard any other drivers (including AMTs, etc.) that could match the presentation of these three drivers on a K-402 horn, fully dialed-in.
I can answer more questions about the differences, above and the other drivers/horns that I've evaluated, but this is a good place stop for now.
Chris
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Sorry I only read about this in some German Forums. But Cask05 has written now about this problem. There is a gap between the two Diaphragms in the SPL Response.
Thanks. I asked because if you were referring to the factory passive xover, it's rubbish. Do it DSP and there's no real issue.
Outside of the large format drivers there are some other drivers that are very interesting:
https://www.eminence.com/speakers/driver-detail/?model=N151M-8https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/improved-saw-lens.350889/page-2#post-6122375
https://www.eminence.com/speakers/driver-detail/?model=N151M-8https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/improved-saw-lens.350889/page-2#post-6122375
Well, not really...it's more of a choice between flatter phase or flatter SPL response. I choose flatter phase because it sounds better in my listening room. If you want flatter SPL response at crossover, you can get it.
(Note the scale resolution):
Chris
I concur.
Dialing in the BMS 4592ND diaphragms using IIR filters in a DSP crossover works great. If using crossover filters having no all-pass phase growth, then a delay of ~0.145 ms on the higher frequency diaphragm relative to the lower frequency diaphragm will achieve time alignment (~one period of a 7 kHz wave at room temperature). I find that this time correction brings the overall sound quality essentially up to that of the TADs on the K402s. Without the time delay correction, there is a timbre shift that makes the 4592ND sound different than the TADs.
BTW: this is much better performance than trying to use two drivers on separate horn apertures, and this fact should be kept firmly in mind.
Chris
