I wish I was a member of this forum then you were doing it.
http://www.veneersystems.com/
http://www.veneersupplies.com/
https://www.qualityvak.com/index.html
http://www.vacupress.com/index.htm
It wasn’t criticism.
GF-20 is the industrial name for a veneer softener. Leaves of veneer, ones cut from the log, go through a rapid drying process and species of wood that have higher moisture content to begin with, tend to shrink, causing stress in the body and thus cracking. GF-20 softens the veneer and re-moisturizes it. Sometimes cracks will close up by themselves, sometimes you need to pull it together either with the tape or sticher.
GF-20 as other softeners has a working window (and it comes with instructions and help line phone number). I remember buying Walnut veneer, dated back to 1930th and being rolled up in someone’s attic all this time.
Unibond 800 is another name I will throw at you but you can’t use it until u are set with a vacuum.
Oh, it’s been about 20 years since I did my army bid, so I probably couldn’t hit anything at 200 meters.
http://www.veneersystems.com/
http://www.veneersupplies.com/
https://www.qualityvak.com/index.html
http://www.vacupress.com/index.htm
It wasn’t criticism.
GF-20 is the industrial name for a veneer softener. Leaves of veneer, ones cut from the log, go through a rapid drying process and species of wood that have higher moisture content to begin with, tend to shrink, causing stress in the body and thus cracking. GF-20 softens the veneer and re-moisturizes it. Sometimes cracks will close up by themselves, sometimes you need to pull it together either with the tape or sticher.
GF-20 as other softeners has a working window (and it comes with instructions and help line phone number). I remember buying Walnut veneer, dated back to 1930th and being rolled up in someone’s attic all this time.
Unibond 800 is another name I will throw at you but you can’t use it until u are set with a vacuum.
Oh, it’s been about 20 years since I did my army bid, so I probably couldn’t hit anything at 200 meters.
Actually, I'm ashamed of myself. I should never have talked about my unsavory professional skills. I am sorry about that. But I have always been Very good with my hands, at just about anything mechanical in nature. It's funny that I am a graduate anthropologist, but have never applied it to my living.
The truth is that I have never used iron on veneering before. I always went the regular glueing route, by applying pressure with wood vices. I decided to do the Hexagon project with iron-on adhesive, because I have been tempted for some time now. And I have learned a great deal from it, as I have stated. Also, if I screw up on something, I would rather pass it on than let others repeat them.
For one thing, I will not use the Better Bond Adhesive any more, unless using a very dark veneer. I will, however, try the Titebond II in the future, since I use it for other projects as well. I am intrigued in applying veneer with heat, and there must be some way to apply it without trouble. I'm just not skilled enough with it yet.
As for the GW-20, it is akin to Super-Soft Veneer Softener which I have on hand. I have made my own softner from scratch before, but haven't done so for some time, because it leaves strange fumes in the shop.
Regarding the hexagon project, there is no way I can use a vacuum press to accomplish the job, so it must be done the old fashioned way. Also, I have several files that I could use for trimming the veneer, but I am always trying new ways, I guess.
Also keep in mind that I am hindered by trimming the veneer the usual way, since I am working with 60 degree, not 90 degree corners. That makes a big difference for trimming.
As for my real skills, I make beautiful "High Dollar" things for the interior design industry. And I only have just so much room in my basement shop, because I have a large 60" x 144" work table, a Huge quilting machine, and four industrial machines for sewing, etc. Add my table saw, and other shop tools, including one wall covered in cabinets, and you quickly have no room for other power tools. I'm stuck with just so much room, or time too.
The truth is that I have never used iron on veneering before. I always went the regular glueing route, by applying pressure with wood vices. I decided to do the Hexagon project with iron-on adhesive, because I have been tempted for some time now. And I have learned a great deal from it, as I have stated. Also, if I screw up on something, I would rather pass it on than let others repeat them.
For one thing, I will not use the Better Bond Adhesive any more, unless using a very dark veneer. I will, however, try the Titebond II in the future, since I use it for other projects as well. I am intrigued in applying veneer with heat, and there must be some way to apply it without trouble. I'm just not skilled enough with it yet.
As for the GW-20, it is akin to Super-Soft Veneer Softener which I have on hand. I have made my own softner from scratch before, but haven't done so for some time, because it leaves strange fumes in the shop.
Regarding the hexagon project, there is no way I can use a vacuum press to accomplish the job, so it must be done the old fashioned way. Also, I have several files that I could use for trimming the veneer, but I am always trying new ways, I guess.
Also keep in mind that I am hindered by trimming the veneer the usual way, since I am working with 60 degree, not 90 degree corners. That makes a big difference for trimming.
As for my real skills, I make beautiful "High Dollar" things for the interior design industry. And I only have just so much room in my basement shop, because I have a large 60" x 144" work table, a Huge quilting machine, and four industrial machines for sewing, etc. Add my table saw, and other shop tools, including one wall covered in cabinets, and you quickly have no room for other power tools. I'm stuck with just so much room, or time too.
OT Post
Ahh, it's good to know more of us lurk around these parts. You must have done your grad work some time ago, as you are both polite and well-informed. Such characteristics are not common in recently-minted anthropologists. It takes a few years for life to grind the sharp corners from our pointy little heads
.
Squib
Ahh, it's good to know more of us lurk around these parts. You must have done your grad work some time ago, as you are both polite and well-informed. Such characteristics are not common in recently-minted anthropologists. It takes a few years for life to grind the sharp corners from our pointy little heads
.Squib
Re: OT Post
thanks Squib. I acquired my masters from the University of Tennessee, in 1975, under Dr Bill Bass of Body Farm fame. I specialized in Physical Anthropology, Mostly Neanderthal and skeletal aging/parity identification
squib said:
Ahh, it's good to know more of us lurk around these parts. You must have done your grad work some time ago, as you are both polite and well-informed. Such characteristics are not common in recently-minted anthropologists. It takes a few years for life to grind the sharp corners from our pointy little heads
Squib
thanks Squib. I acquired my masters from the University of Tennessee, in 1975, under Dr Bill Bass of Body Farm fame. I specialized in Physical Anthropology, Mostly Neanderthal and skeletal aging/parity identification
Oki.
This is the way I would build your Hexagon speaker.
Cut all panels oversized by ½” length and width.
Mark the centers.
Veneer each panel in a press (which ever one you prefer, I use vacuum but a large Pony clamp press will do all thou a pain in behind.)
Trim excess veneer with laminate trimmer or router.
Square off the panels and cut to size lengthwise.
Dado sluts for hexagon inserts.
Cut mitered sides to size.
Drink coffee, smoke a cigar, and assemble.
If the veneer is pressed well and rigid type glue is used, filing off the corners goes very quickly but with the way I just described, there’s nothing to cut.
You can veneer a hexagon like this in the vacuum. The inserts would have to be no more then 10 inches apart and the end would have to be cupped. One side at a time would be the way to go.
On your hexagon, the advantage that you had is width of the veneer leaves. What would you do if you had to book match leaves for each side? In case like this Heat Lock would fail quickly.
I also build Big ticket items for interior designers and decorator.
Here’s my web site that represents limited production pieces of lower value.
http://www.tasdebois.com/
Heat Lock is not exactly a traditional way. Old time cabinetmakers will do it with yellow glue same way as you used Heat Lock.
I am not here to preach at all, but it looks to me as if you really appreciate the beauty of veneer and there are better ways of doing it.
Wiggleboard is a variety of commercially available 4x8 panels that’s designed to bend short or long way. Its flexible and I guess the name comes from the wiggling ability then you carry a sheet.
This is the way I would build your Hexagon speaker.
Cut all panels oversized by ½” length and width.
Mark the centers.
Veneer each panel in a press (which ever one you prefer, I use vacuum but a large Pony clamp press will do all thou a pain in behind.)
Trim excess veneer with laminate trimmer or router.
Square off the panels and cut to size lengthwise.
Dado sluts for hexagon inserts.
Cut mitered sides to size.
Drink coffee, smoke a cigar, and assemble.
If the veneer is pressed well and rigid type glue is used, filing off the corners goes very quickly but with the way I just described, there’s nothing to cut.
You can veneer a hexagon like this in the vacuum. The inserts would have to be no more then 10 inches apart and the end would have to be cupped. One side at a time would be the way to go.
On your hexagon, the advantage that you had is width of the veneer leaves. What would you do if you had to book match leaves for each side? In case like this Heat Lock would fail quickly.
I also build Big ticket items for interior designers and decorator.
Here’s my web site that represents limited production pieces of lower value.
http://www.tasdebois.com/
Heat Lock is not exactly a traditional way. Old time cabinetmakers will do it with yellow glue same way as you used Heat Lock.
I am not here to preach at all, but it looks to me as if you really appreciate the beauty of veneer and there are better ways of doing it.
Wiggleboard is a variety of commercially available 4x8 panels that’s designed to bend short or long way. Its flexible and I guess the name comes from the wiggling ability then you carry a sheet.
R-Carpenter said:
First off, it would be nice for you to post this over at the hexagon thread, and I will post this there as well.
Now, I had considered doing just that, because what you suggest is the ideal way to do it. But keep in mind that doing this sort of thing is not my strong suit, or something I have ever done before. All it would take would be for me to veneer everything and then bugg@r-up the cut, and the entire thing would be ruined.
Obviously you do this all the time, so it is like second nature to you. I had considered using the traditional way of gluing up the veneer and then sealing it prior to final construction, so as to avoid any glue messing up the finish. But I couldn't find any lock mitre bit that would give me the proper 30 degree angle cut. I could find one that cut the 45 degree (for square corner) and the 22 1/2 degree (for octagon), but they don't make one for a hexagon cut. And I was not certain my Crastsman saw would be all that consistant on the exact cut.
In hind sight it still looks like the best way to go for a less than professional expert in veneer.
You are absolutely correct here. I purposefully chose veneer that did not require bookmatching or quartermatching, and there are many veneers that would fit the bill. That is the BIG advantage with multi-sided cabinets. They are considerably more conplicated, but the veneer requirement is less so. Of course, it is also possible to make a larger volume cabinet this way and have it more symmetrical than a box.
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For the very reason above I like the idea of the Octagon enclosure, because it is possible to find a router bit that can make the perfect angle cut, AND overlap joint, all at the same time. I really like that possibility. Then veneering the walls would be quite easy to do and the only critical point would be to ensure the inner ribbing were exact and the dado cuts just right, so as to make them fit perfectly.
One other thing. I don't expect this to be my final work on this concept. I will make at least one more here, because as I have stated before, I am not a huge fan of walnut. I prefer lighter woods, but still love Santos the most.
As for the bookmatching part, again you are right on this. Because of the reasonable width of each side, I did not have to consider this, so I could afford to experiment on something I had never done before. Most of my work with veneer had been with carpenters wood glue, but I had done one project in hide glue, and that is the best way to work multiple pieces, since you can always reheat it and make corrections years from now. Only hide glue is not as versatile. Funny how the oldest way is most likely proven to be the best way.
Your lesser ticket items are stunning, to say the least. I particuarly admire the chair with the crotch mahagony, even though it is not your most challenging. I like simplicity best, because it has this habit of being the most elegant.
Agreed! My first time with it. It's high cost and ultra-dark brown finish makes it a much less than acceptable vehicle for me in the future. I have never used the heating process before, and wanted to do it without mistakes. But Murphy Always enters the equation, whether we like it or not.
I always appreciate suggestions. That is how one uses his or her talents to best advantage. Although I am a graduate anthropologist, I rely on my hand and eye coordination for a living, and make things for the interior design field, though not as detailed as you. Mine is in the upholstery/quilting/sewing part. I make raw frames, such as headboards, cornices,lambriquins, etc, and then upholster them. Sometimes I trim out headboards with veneer on the outer edge, and that is where I do almost all my veneering. So naturally, my equipment is geared to the less than exacting requirements of a frame that is going to be covered in other material.
Wiggleboard is a variety of commercially available 4x8 panels that’s designed to bend short or long way. Its flexible and I guess the name comes from the wiggling ability then you carry a sheet.
I tried this board once to make a set of dog-eared cornices that were curved and ornate on the top. While it was nice to use, it was more expensive, and I was able to accomplish the same thing by Kerf cutting the plywood, wetting it down, going to get a Samual Adams, and then bending it around the already cut front panel while stapling it in place. AND, I only had to stock one item, ie the plywood, in the shop. Again, symplicity.
R-Carpenter said:
I have a question for you Roman. On the dresser sporting the croutch managany, how did you get all the pieces to match?
http://www.tasdebois.com/dresser.html
Did you custom cut all the veneer parts, and then line up all the pieces to be glued? Or did you have the drawers and braces in place and then glue the veneer first, and trim the veneer last?
The first thing is to figure out the desired effect of the book match. So, you cut the bundle of veneer to width. If the face is 40” wide, you want to have 4 equal leaves at 10” each.
The face and the top of the dresser are laid up and stiched together. The upper section of the jointed veneer is cut off and glued on the panel that will be used for the top. Lower section is glued on the panel that will be used for the drawer faces. After gluing is done, panels are squared of and the lower section is cut in to 3 drawer faces. There’s nothing to match because they are cut from the same panel. Edges are veneered after.
Oh btw, the cross sections between the drawers are also cut from the same panel so they also match.
Speaking about CNC. My shop has old time machinery. Nothing fancy.
CNCs are great but most of my friends who own CNC routers, cant make a straight cut on the table saw.
The face and the top of the dresser are laid up and stiched together. The upper section of the jointed veneer is cut off and glued on the panel that will be used for the top. Lower section is glued on the panel that will be used for the drawer faces. After gluing is done, panels are squared of and the lower section is cut in to 3 drawer faces. There’s nothing to match because they are cut from the same panel. Edges are veneered after.
Oh btw, the cross sections between the drawers are also cut from the same panel so they also match.
Speaking about CNC. My shop has old time machinery. Nothing fancy.
CNCs are great but most of my friends who own CNC routers, cant make a straight cut on the table saw.
On close examination, I see that the pieces don't exactly flow perfectly on a vertical basis, so you must have used a veneer saw to precut all the veneer, with a tiny bit of overlap, after you bookmatched the sheets. The flow of the pieces is close to perfect, but I can see a very slight variation to the pattern.
The job is absolutely gorgeous! Every time I see crotch mahogany at E-Bay I drool, but just don't have any project for highlighting it. I thought about using it for this project
But I would have to find a pretty long set to quartermatch a top that is over 70 inches long. I'll probably wind up using a nice maple, with maple burl on the top, and in the door panels.
The job is absolutely gorgeous! Every time I see crotch mahogany at E-Bay I drool, but just don't have any project for highlighting it. I thought about using it for this project
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
But I would have to find a pretty long set to quartermatch a top that is over 70 inches long. I'll probably wind up using a nice maple, with maple burl on the top, and in the door panels.
Thank you for the kind comments. There's no overlap. Its the way light reflected on the photo. My veneer saw is 15ft long and it cuts pretty straight. Quite a few years ago, then I started my business, I use to make veneer cutting jigs for the router. Results were quite good. It takes a while to make one but it's possible to do in the small shop.
Just want to warn you about Crotch Mahogany. Yellow glue (such as Tighbond 2 or Elmer's) will not be strong enough and eventually veneer will develop cracks. Catalyzed adhesive is a must in this case.
Crotch comes in all sizes. I've seen 12ft long bundles. It's quite expensive and usually used by architects. I have a bundle in the shop that's 8ft long and about 3ft wide.
Maple, burl or otherwise sometimes turns pink after 2-3 month if yellow glue is used.
Now on to the subject. I have big section of this panel left over after a job. How would we go about measuring resonance and the amount of it if different types of laminations are used? Anyone whiling to take part in measurements if I produce the samples?
Just want to warn you about Crotch Mahogany. Yellow glue (such as Tighbond 2 or Elmer's) will not be strong enough and eventually veneer will develop cracks. Catalyzed adhesive is a must in this case.
Crotch comes in all sizes. I've seen 12ft long bundles. It's quite expensive and usually used by architects. I have a bundle in the shop that's 8ft long and about 3ft wide.
Maple, burl or otherwise sometimes turns pink after 2-3 month if yellow glue is used.
Now on to the subject. I have big section of this panel left over after a job. How would we go about measuring resonance and the amount of it if different types of laminations are used? Anyone whiling to take part in measurements if I produce the samples?
I'm over in Bklyn all the time (Bronx as well).R-Carpenter said:
Show me a guy who has a contractor saw, and I will show you a man who is likely missing one or more digits on his feed hand!!! My adoptive Dutch uncle in Ohio was a carpenter, smoked cigars like a dope-fiend, and had many incomplete digits.
The CNC stuff we use is so wonderfully repetitive it's replacing injection moldings. The consistency and acuracy are just amazing.
jackinnj said:
Oh it absolutely is, more precise and safer. I recently heard the story of a worker changing the tool and the other worker accidentally turning the cnc router on. My friend almost lost his fingers on the slider recently. So what? All tools have a degree of danger and the only people that are safe from the accidents are sales people, well may be not from the deadly hemorrhoid.
The general tendency now days is to dump every operation on the CNC router and it's very efficient if you are in mass production of anything or in need of ultra precise 3d parts. I can't justify the investment for myself at this point.
Anyone on the measuring panel resonance?
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