Y-E-S
The faults of a loudspeaker, be it linear distortion, IMD, or whatever, are at least an order of magnitude worse than just about any amp. 1% distortion? Hey this is just your average loudspeaker midrange. 10% distortion! Yes, that is the woofer playing just now, trying to reproduce some loud passage.
While I have to admit that you are hearing the sum of the faults of the reproduction chain (and the recording chain while we are at it), the loudspeaker is dominating the conversation so to speak.
Only after getting very familiar with a loudspeaker in a controlled environment, and then making a change to the system done via double blind A-B testing can you really probe for a difference between a source or amp in an unbiased manner.
I'm not saying that every amp sounds identical, only that you can not expect to pick it up by dropping by a demo room at a trade show.
In fact, once you become sensitive to the typical, audible misbehaviour of normal amplifiers it becomes quite straightforward to listen for, and hear those characteristics - very distinct from speaker problems.
Now isn't that interesting ... my experience is that as the electronics improve, the more widely differing speakers start to sound the same - because they no longer emphasise the now less extreme deficiences earlier in the chain, in their own particular ways. The fact that bass, for example, falls apart in speakers is that the amplifier has hit the bump stops, and the sound quality is dragged way down ...
Suggest go talk to your therapist about that then
Linear distortion (FR) yep, THD yep, IMD, no. Go over to David Greisinger's web page and educate yourself.
Sure, but those are the large signal distortions which aren't happening most of the time. The crest factor of music is what you seem to be missing.
So you claim but in terms of the low hanging fruit which affect audibility, not so much. Other than resonances and non-flat FR which I concede are major issues for speakers.
Its a claim for sure. If you're putting it forward as a hypothesis, how are you going to test it?
Don't disagree there - more rigour is required than merely dropping by. Shows are particularly poor coz normally they won't allow you to play your own music and other components in the chain are likely to be unfamiliar. Not to mention the cross-feed from other rooms and general chit-chat.
+1 with one major caveat. For example my B&W CM1s are now unlistenable for colouration with my vastly improved electronics. I rather suspect that I didn't notice their colouration before because the electronics I was using (soundcard in PC, Foobar active XO, un-modded integrated amps) was adding so much cr*p
Interesting ... I note from here, SoundStage! Measurements - B&W CM1 Loudspeakers (5/2007), probably the worst sensitivity number I've seen for a long time, 81dB, and quite a bit worse in the critical midrange. This means that the speaker is demanding quite substantial voltage swings from the amp for normal volumes; that huge hole in the midrange further adding to the 'damage'.
Personally, I would dive inside the speakers, check for silly weaknesses, then create a test track equalised to match the FR, and play at various volumes - to see if the stress on the electronics was still pulling the sound down, in spite of the improvements made to date.
Personally, I would dive inside the speakers, check for silly weaknesses, then create a test track equalised to match the FR, and play at various volumes - to see if the stress on the electronics was still pulling the sound down, in spite of the improvements made to date.
I think I looked at those curves too shortly after I bought them. And one reason I went active was seeing that huge suck-out. Another was flabby bass. But the colouration remains even without the passive XO. I rather suspect one big reason for the mid-range hole could be the single (but huge) inductor used for the bass/mid XO. Its wound with very thick wire to get low enough DCR but I think they should've used Litz because the losses shoot up above 1kHz.
I hadn't noticed the ****--poor efficiency before, good point that it'll show up amp weaknesses to a greater degree.
I hadn't noticed the ****--poor efficiency before, good point that it'll show up amp weaknesses to a greater degree.
The resulting sound is the synergy between amplifier and speaker, so with a few exceptions, the better the amplifier the better also it handles or matches with varying speakers. The result is then no matter what the speaker, the sound will be good (but not the same!).
Same with speakers. With few exceptions, the better the speaker the better also it can handle or match with amplifiers. The result is then no matter what the amplifier, the sound will always be good (but not the same either).
Amplifier design is relatively more advanced than speaker design. We don't need expensive part to design a good amplifier.
Speaker is different. The best speaker requires best parts. Light and stiff cones requires expensive parts such as diamond, strong magnet requires special material also. And after best drivers, what is needed is designer's expertise, where designing good speakers is not as straight forward as designing good amplifiers.
I have built many amps, but I prefer to listen to my best speaker with generic chip amp than to listen to best amp with generic speaker.
At lower level, amp is probably more critical but at higher level, the speaker is what limit your system performance.
Chip amps like gainclones and TDA2030 (plain 2030 will have issue with bass section of a 3-way speaker) are acceptable to me, BUT ONLY with premium parts in feedback (I use Sanyo Oscon). Also may be good caps and overrated transformer.
Using cheap chip amps such as the TDA2030 (and even the 3W LA4270) with good speaker and listening to the result really opened my eyes. I know what a speaker can do.
Will you go and pay ticket to listen to live music? You will because you want the enjoyment. Now be honest, will you pay to listen to your system at home? A good sytem will ALWAYS give you music. It is really amazing.
Good points, Jay. Though I will do a reverse on the quality/OK amp, quality/OK speaker combo - the better amplifier will do so much more in bringing the music to life, with the OK version I will constantly hear its limitations contaminating the playback, it would irritate me intensely.
The one proviso is that the OK speaker would always have to be warmed up first, before "serious" listening - they usually sound quite 'dead' before the suspension, etc, reaches optimum working state, from being given a solid workout ...
The one proviso is that the OK speaker would always have to be warmed up first, before "serious" listening - they usually sound quite 'dead' before the suspension, etc, reaches optimum working state, from being given a solid workout ...
Since this thread is specifically about the new Benchmark amp, I'd like to test a thypothesis I have here. That is that this amp's brief was engineering led, rather than customer led.
I'd like to know which customers have been asking for lower crossover distortion and what they heard in prior technology amps which led them to think that their sonic deficiencies would be solved if only they could get an amp with lower crossover distortion. Anyone got any input on this?
I'd like to know which customers have been asking for lower crossover distortion and what they heard in prior technology amps which led them to think that their sonic deficiencies would be solved if only they could get an amp with lower crossover distortion. Anyone got any input on this?
10-20% THD in a speaker is clearly audible and yet most people like yourself choose to ignore or rationalize it simply because you can't do anything about it.
well you could always make up a new distortion that apparently can't be measured and then use a straw man fallacy to argue your point !!
This looks like the current dumping output stage used in the Quad 405 power amp. There were countless debates about it in Wireless World but the biggest problem was that to perfectly balance the bridge required a certain output impedance usually an 8 ohm resistor which is not practical. How does your design maintain load invariance ?
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Sounds like you need to invest in a new pair if yours are giving you that much distortion!
We have solved this problem, and the bridge balance does not change with loading.
+1
Distortion in speakers can be much lower nowadays.
My speakers are more like an open window to the rest of my chain, if there's something wrong or less good with the amplifier, source or recording: I hear it.
what's silly about 40Hz ? If an opamp or DAC generated that much distortion at that frequency you would throw it in the rubbish bin.
Because sorting out low bass distortion is a totally different exercise from what needs to be done with midrange and treble. This is all about getting truly capable subwoofer drivers, usually costing a pretty penny, and mounting them into exactly the right enclosures, with great expertise. Most integrated speakers do low bass badly, it's full of false bass, the distortion overtones dominate the subjectively perceived bass quality - very few can deliver the real thing ...