I'm building a recording studio, not going to be on stage. Small room don't need massive spls. strictly for recording I will probably do alot of DI bass recording too but it would be nice to provide the option. I know the music I listen to has plenty of information below 50Hz if it isn't coming from the bass where is it coming from? In this situation that I described connected to at least a 50W amp is there any problem with the driver I've selected.
The ear/brain is great at adding in missing fundamentals.brsanko said:
Do you have a guitar amp? If so then mic that up and mix with a DI signal. Often works very well, especially if I'm in a bit of a Lemmy mood.
If you're building a studio (I've built several) there's a million other things to do, so a purely recording bass amp/cab would be about the last thing on my list.
brsanko said:
Perhaps you've noticed?, people in recording studios often wear headphones?
It's more common to record a bass guitar via DI, so if you do use a cab for letting him hear himself, it's not part of the recording process anyway. Most (almost all?) bass cabs won't reproduce the lowest fundamentals, so you don't need to try and provide one that does.
And like I said before, if you've got a bass player who wants his cab miking up, rather than DI, because he's trying for a particular sound, he's going to want to use HIS (or her) cab, not your's.
I personally wouldn't do a 10 or 12, but would vote for a JBL K140 in 120L ported. An EV EVM15L in a similar sort of box or an EVM12L in something smaller and ported (haven't run numbers on these ones) is another option. None of these are particularly expensive secondhand. The idea would be to make something like an Ampeg B15 type arrangement. Smallish tube amp that can be driven for a bit of distortion and the slightly rounder tone of the 15. Mixed with a DI signal it can make for a very rich combination. SS amps all sound the same to me and won't do enough to change the tone enough to be worthwhile IMNSHO.brsanko said:
Otherwise as was suggested above, use whatever the bass player has and likes. Bassists, esp if someone really wants to mic a cab is likely very conscious of their tone and how to get it.
I've played my bass through lots of hifi speakers and monitors and it sounded OK, I just don't think I'd bother to mic them.brsanko said:
Don't recall trying it as a bass specific cab.
I've been thinking SY's Red Light District amp (search here) could be a cracker though I'd experiment with cathode bias as well and maybe trioding the EL84's.brsanko said:
For a preamp, copy something you like, maybe a couple of different designs as it's very cheap to make it 3 or 4 channels once you have the PSU, case and output iron. A few more tubes and passives don't add much.
Otherwise, I'm quite fond of this cct, with some mods (6EU7 is a 12AX7 with different pinout)
Attachments
not quite ready to tackle building my own amp quite yet(though it is a dream of mine). I think for now I'm going to build the guitar (vintage 30 with open back) and bass speaker cabs and buy the amps. Tubes would be great but I am on a rather limited budget. I hope to do both guitar and bass speakers and amps for about $500 is this possible or reasonable?
I could build it all for that. A small tube amp isn't that expensive. The ones I suggested are 15W and don't need any expensive parts. Best of all, build it in a big box (like a head) and you can use the same poweamp section, with different pre's for bass and geetar.brsanko said:
However, as you're time and budget limited, buy the amps and drivers secondhand; pick the amp well and you'll be able to resell later for little loss. Maybe a small (tube) combo guitar amp you like the sound of, with a clean channel too, and a build a bass cab: use the amp for both Would be the cheapest and simplest option I guess. But I don't buy guitar amps (I build guitar and harp amps), and am in Australia, so no real clue re secondhand prices. I must admit, I have a weakness for Peavey gear.
When you get the guitar amp, try it as is with bass at sensible levels and see how you like it. You might be surprised, esp when mixed with a DI signal. You don't need to close mic it either, sometimes further out into the room will give a lot of warmth and natural (sort of) reverb.
I recently made a bass amp for a friend bass player.
Solid state with dual power subwoofer amplifiers. Bought speaker locally from a reputable manufacturor. 2 x 15" Hybrid speakers. Measuring Thiele/Small parameters the resonating frequency was measured at 31 HZ in free air using small signal. I build these into a cabinet divided in 2 x 72 liter cabinets. Pre amp using 3 way frequency setting that is quiet when all are turned to 0. Bi amping identical speakers.
The friend is very happy.
Solid state with dual power subwoofer amplifiers. Bought speaker locally from a reputable manufacturor. 2 x 15" Hybrid speakers. Measuring Thiele/Small parameters the resonating frequency was measured at 31 HZ in free air using small signal. I build these into a cabinet divided in 2 x 72 liter cabinets. Pre amp using 3 way frequency setting that is quiet when all are turned to 0. Bi amping identical speakers.
The friend is very happy.
Attachments
Of interest to any bass player or stage performer with a DIY yen :
" ... Acoustic Speaker Cabinets
Various size cabinets, 1 x 15", 2 x 15", Some bass cabinets--- All Unloaded. Price per cabinet - but will to talk turkey on the lot! Shipping from Florida.
http://www.gearsource.com/products.cfm?pkid=731
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Overture Speaker Cabinets
2 x 12", 2 x 15", 2" Horn - Unloaded. Each cabinet is ready to be loaded. All boxes Carpeted and include Wheels. Shipping from Florida.
http://www.gearsource.com/products.cfm?pkid=744 ... "
I get this ad blurb every day in the email. Occasionally these guys have some real deals ...
" ... Acoustic Speaker Cabinets
Various size cabinets, 1 x 15", 2 x 15", Some bass cabinets--- All Unloaded. Price per cabinet - but will to talk turkey on the lot! Shipping from Florida.
http://www.gearsource.com/products.cfm?pkid=731
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Overture Speaker Cabinets
2 x 12", 2 x 15", 2" Horn - Unloaded. Each cabinet is ready to be loaded. All boxes Carpeted and include Wheels. Shipping from Florida.
http://www.gearsource.com/products.cfm?pkid=744 ... "
I get this ad blurb every day in the email. Occasionally these guys have some real deals ...
notes
I have been playing in bands since 69... currently am playing thru an acoustic 320B w/ sunn 2/15 (loaded with evm15l) and a 4x10 top cabinet loaded with emmineince guitar speakers(more clarity than 10" woofers) this thing is extremely loud and also great sounding... ive played through ampeg b15 and fender bassman as well as some carvin equipment and a sunn sonaro , a sunn coliseum (twin folded horn 15") and by far the loudest was an old acoustic 4 15... I have found with out exception the tube amps have a far better presence Ie they reproduce the harmonics better...but the solid state amps usually will drown out a tube amp but sound a bit flat.....You see a lot of bands using the ampeg 8 10 cabinet but what you don't see is the subs of the main PA that do most of the bottom end repro..you can forcr the bottome with lots of power and hear some but a 15 " is the best..
biamp sounds the best and the red eye series from carvin is probably the most bit for the buck..
I have been playing in bands since 69... currently am playing thru an acoustic 320B w/ sunn 2/15 (loaded with evm15l) and a 4x10 top cabinet loaded with emmineince guitar speakers(more clarity than 10" woofers) this thing is extremely loud and also great sounding... ive played through ampeg b15 and fender bassman as well as some carvin equipment and a sunn sonaro , a sunn coliseum (twin folded horn 15") and by far the loudest was an old acoustic 4 15... I have found with out exception the tube amps have a far better presence Ie they reproduce the harmonics better...but the solid state amps usually will drown out a tube amp but sound a bit flat.....You see a lot of bands using the ampeg 8 10 cabinet but what you don't see is the subs of the main PA that do most of the bottom end repro..you can forcr the bottome with lots of power and hear some but a 15 " is the best..
biamp sounds the best and the red eye series from carvin is probably the most bit for the buck..
Too much bass frequency
Hi,
Reviewing this thread I would offer the suggestion that the best bass response in an amp is often achieved with less deep bass frequency response. If you achieve true flat response to 30 or 40 hertz on stage, you will likely be displeased with the results.
Most likely, you have heard the lowest octave on stage reproduced with any amplitude. The mighty SVT reproduces virtually _no_ fundamental frequencies, providing strong second harmonics for each bass string instead. Virtually everyone smiles big time when hearing an SVT in full cry for the first time. Of all the available bass rigs, only the old Acoustic 360/370 series reproduced deep bass with any amplitude--through the use of horn-loaded 18-inch speakers.
In real, stage situations less bass is more bass--in terms of what we hear, as opposed to feel. Rolling off the fundamental and getting the second harmonic right is "key." Spending big bucks reproducing 30-40 hertz will cause a lot of rattling, but not produce a big return in "perceived bass." DIY-ers can rest assured that the big amp companies all tried big speaker, big enclosure amps behind the scenes before abandoning them as impractical. They create more problems than solutions onstage.
We will, of course, build away to produce something that isn't commercially available. When we take it up on stage, however, the headaches will begin. This is, of course, just an opinion.
Deluxedoc
Hi,
Reviewing this thread I would offer the suggestion that the best bass response in an amp is often achieved with less deep bass frequency response. If you achieve true flat response to 30 or 40 hertz on stage, you will likely be displeased with the results.
Most likely, you have heard the lowest octave on stage reproduced with any amplitude. The mighty SVT reproduces virtually _no_ fundamental frequencies, providing strong second harmonics for each bass string instead. Virtually everyone smiles big time when hearing an SVT in full cry for the first time. Of all the available bass rigs, only the old Acoustic 360/370 series reproduced deep bass with any amplitude--through the use of horn-loaded 18-inch speakers.
In real, stage situations less bass is more bass--in terms of what we hear, as opposed to feel. Rolling off the fundamental and getting the second harmonic right is "key." Spending big bucks reproducing 30-40 hertz will cause a lot of rattling, but not produce a big return in "perceived bass." DIY-ers can rest assured that the big amp companies all tried big speaker, big enclosure amps behind the scenes before abandoning them as impractical. They create more problems than solutions onstage.
We will, of course, build away to produce something that isn't commercially available. When we take it up on stage, however, the headaches will begin. This is, of course, just an opinion.
Deluxedoc
Google Video with search criteria "Solder": http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=solder&hl=en&sitesearch=
Search Criteria "Soldering": http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=soldering&hl=en&sitesearch=
Some repeats.
Next best thing to Brett flying from "Down Under" to show you! I think that is expensive, especially his hourly charge! But just think how nice that amp would be!
Enjoy and good luck!
Regards//Keith
Search Criteria "Soldering": http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=soldering&hl=en&sitesearch=
Some repeats.
Next best thing to Brett flying from "Down Under" to show you! I think that is expensive, especially his hourly charge! But just think how nice that amp would be!
Enjoy and good luck!
Regards//Keith
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