B1 Preamp - Help Me!

[udailey]

Professor,
Just a suggestion. I get crazy about these things too. Put it away. Check the Pass website every morning noon and night. Buy two of the board when he makes them available. Then remove all your parts from the P2P you have done and start over. Should take a short time to do and not to long to wait.
Nobody is holding back trying to help you I think nobody knows why you are lacking bass and it does seem that you have not tried their solutions. Thats aside... When I saw the pics you posted it is really hard to tell whats going on in that box. Impossible to draw a schematic from that and figure out whats amiss.
I give you credit for hanging in there but right now I think its best to just chill for a few days til Papa gets the boards out. When you populate that you might have all problems solved and if you dont you can take a pic and it will probably be immediately obvious to us where the problem is. And the fix will be easy.
Most of us really would like to help you, and Gray wants to help you to he just wants to help you HIS way not YOURS
We will get it fixed. Patience is going to be the quickest fix.
Sincerely
Uriah

 

[Zen Mod]

Also this problem with the bass is really making me angry.I want to kill myself partly because i dont have any music at the moment. Can someone try to explain what could possibly cause a lack of bass depth?

Everything else sounds fine. Imaging is not bad, so it must be something subtle which is causing these problems.

schematic is proofed ;
project is proofed ;

but seems that you're just stubborn asking numerous questions , without admitting even slight possibility that you made it wrong .

we can conclude and judge only based on pictures and descriptions ;

I told you that - looking at pictures of your B1 , and judging by your questions - it's pure luck that you hear through that mess anything at all .

make it tidier and it will work , as intended .



do your homework , same as majority of members here already does

roger and over .

 

[BFNY]

I WANt to learn but its got to be on MY terms not on YOURS...but that's the way I want things to be done.

You know, from what I observe, this thread about building the B1 buffer. I think you are saying you want it to be about teaching *you* the basics of electronics. Problem is, you don't know what you don't know. There is a certain level of understanding required to participate in a meaningful way, and it's really up to you to bring yourself up to that level. The alternate approach is to buy prebuilt audio components.

In electronics, there is no ability to understand or troubleshoot a circuit by physical observation. It must be measured using electronic instruments. They are the "eyes" that R&D engineers use to find problems and troubleshoot circuits. Without you taking some measurements of your project, no one here can really help you. They can toss out ideas, but no one has a clue what's going on without a full set of measurements on the circuit. I'm not sure you understand this.
I think the minimum amount of test gear everyone who builds from scratch should have is a multimeter (AC/DC volts, frequency, amps, C, R) and an audio signal generator. In many cases, if you are careful, you can use a soundcard and software instead for some basic measurements. Just be careful of the low end response on the sound card.

With this modest equipment you can do a lot, provided you know how to make the measurements. The first thing I would do in your predicament is measure the the low end frequency response of the entire chain of components you are using. Use a CD with many discrete tones perhaps. This is easy for some, rather involved for others.

What you may be able to do is take DC voltage readings at both sides of every component used. Write them on the schematic, post it here, and you may find the problem rather quickly. Also measure the current draw of the circuit. If you want to be a scratch builder, you have to learn how to do this stuff. It may not be obvious, but I would predict better than 80% of the people that participate in this thread have at least modest test gear, and will make these sort of measurements on any new finished project.

Last time I posted to you, I asked you to hook ground wires to your RCA ground connections. You are clearly using white plastic insulators on both sides of the RCA connector. Did you do this?
What was the result?
Bob

 

[Professor smith]

Professor,
Just a suggestion. I get crazy about these things too. Put it away. Check the Pass website every morning noon and night. Buy two of the board when he makes them available. Then remove all your parts from the P2P you have done and start over. Should take a short time to do and not to long to wait.
Nobody is holding back trying to help you I think nobody knows why you are lacking bass and it does seem that you have not tried their solutions. Thats aside... When I saw the pics you posted it is really hard to tell whats going on in that box. Impossible to draw a schematic from that and figure out whats amiss.
I give you credit for hanging in there but right now I think its best to just chill for a few days til Papa gets the boards out. When you populate that you might have all problems solved and if you dont you can take a pic and it will probably be immediately obvious to us where the problem is. And the fix will be easy.
Most of us really would like to help you, and Gray wants to help you to he just wants to help you HIS way not YOURS
We will get it fixed. Patience is going to be the quickest fix.
Sincerely
Uriah

And what happens if after building it on the circuit board it still doesnt quite sound right? The thing is, I remember it sounding right at one point. After then it has never sounded the same.

schematic is proofed ;
project is proofed ;
but seems that you're just stubborn asking numerous questions , without admitting even slight possibility that you made it wrong .
we can conclude and judge only based on pictures and descriptions ;
I told you that - looking at pictures of your B1 , and judging by your questions - it's pure luck that you hear through that mess anything at all .
make it tidier and it will work , as intended .
do your homework , same as majority of members here already does
roger and over .

Sorry but what you say is all wrong. I am not stubborn i am just not prepared to make minor changes which I know cannot possibly affect the sound in such a big way, like changing the wiring from the rca for example. Also, whether its tidier or not, or messy or not, what should it matter? If its so sensitive to layout maybe its not a good cicuit after all?

You know, from what I observe, this thread about building the B1 buffer. I think you are saying you want it to be about teaching *you* the basics of electronics. Problem is, you don't know what you don't know. There is a certain level of understanding required to participate in a meaningful way, and it's really up to you to bring yourself up to that level. The alternate approach is to buy prebuilt audio components.

In electronics, there is no ability to understand or troubleshoot a circuit by physical observation. It must be measured using electronic instruments. They are the "eyes" that R&D engineers use to find problems and troubleshoot circuits. Without you taking some measurements of your project, no one here can really help you. They can toss out ideas, but no one has a clue what's going on without a full set of measurements on the circuit. I'm not sure you understand this.
I think the minimum amount of test gear everyone who builds from scratch should have is a multimeter (AC/DC volts, frequency, amps, C, R) and an audio signal generator. In many cases, if you are careful, you can use a soundcard and software instead for some basic measurements. Just be careful of the low end response on the sound card.

With this modest equipment you can do a lot, provided you know how to make the measurements. The first thing I would do in your predicament is measure the the low end frequency response of the entire chain of components you are using. Use a CD with many discrete tones perhaps. This is easy for some, rather involved for others.

What you may be able to do is take DC voltage readings at both sides of every component used. Write them on the schematic, post it here, and you may find the problem rather quickly. Also measure the current draw of the circuit. If you want to be a scratch builder, you have to learn how to do this stuff. It may not be obvious, but I would predict better than 80% of the people that participate in this thread have at least modest test gear, and will make these sort of measurements on any new finished project.

Last time I posted to you, I asked you to hook ground wires to your RCA ground connections. You are clearly using white plastic insulators on both sides of the RCA connector. Did you do this?
What was the result?
Bob

But I replied that the reason for this is that the case is making connection to the ground. Anyway even before I cased this up I was still having problems.

 

[Professor smith]

Actually one thing no one has asked about is the transistors.

They were not matched pairs when I bought them which means they could be completely mismatched.

What would be the effect of mismatching or matching?

 

[lineup]

its people like you who make me want to isolate myself from.

I dont know who you are
but there is some arrogance about you that puts me off.
I WANT to learn but its got to be on MY terms not on YOURS.
Now I understand that may come as abit of a blow to the so called authorities egos,
but that's the way I want things to be done.

I know what you feel Professor smith.
GRollins, though, is not even 5% as impatient, hostile as he may sound some times.
Think of it like this:
GRollins took his time to write a post trying to explain, to you.
Is not this worth something?
--------------------

We have always 2 choices.
1. To interpretate, in maximal negative way. (with Angry Face put on)
2. To interpretate, in maximal positive way. (with Smiley face put on)

Many think of Love as a thing that just happens to you. This is a fatalistic and in my opinion false thought.
If you are afraid of word LOVE you may use word RESPECT. Because they go together, hand in hand
Where there is LOVE there is RESPECT. When you RESPECT you show LOVE for others

Remember, that humans can modulate their mind.
We can make the Active Choice of to Love/Not to Love. There is no need for leave it to Automatic Response.
>> You Shall Love your Brother, and God above all.
Notice the word 'shall'. If there is a commandment, there is also a choice. Or we would not need any commendment, as this would have no effect.

If there is a choice, these commands makes sense, but only if there is a real choice:
You Shall not Kill.
You Shall love your Brother.
You Shall honor your Mother & Father.
--
From this we may guess, that we Have one choice To LOVE ... or not.

> I WANT to learn but its got to be on MY terms not on YOURS.

Think you are a bit wrong, but I know what you mean.
Knowledge can be brought in many ways. But also be received in many ways.
It takes 2 to Tango. It takes 2 to Fight. With a bit of effort from both, it may turn out well.
------------

You Shall Try to put on your positive smiling face,
where ever you go, what ever you you do
If you take a deeper, closer look, and you will discover most people are just like you: FRIENDLY & Good

 

[maxlorenz]

Dear Lineup,
Very well said!

Many think of Love as a thing that just happens to you.

I would only add that love is not passive but active...apart deciding to love or not to love you have to use energy in loving. There is no waste however because this energy is also good for the emiter

Dear Grey,
Everyone here values your efforts in trying to illustrate our mate...
I only wanted to clarify one point.

You're not doing your karma any good...

In fact, you are probably also damaging your own <so said Karma> by being sarcastic instead of friendly and patient....I don-t deny that I had a good laugh when I read your answer but after it made me examine my own reactions.

Hey guys, do not let you get attracted to the Dark Side of The Force.
The Big Brothers shall remain as Big Brothers...and Papa (may I call you Papa?) shall remain as it...

Love to you all,
M

 

[juma]

And what happens if after building it on the circuit board it still doesnt quite sound right?

And what if it does ? (Look what you can gain, not what you can lose...)

... i am just not prepared to make minor changes which I know cannot possibly affect the sound in such a big way, like changing the wiring from the rca for example...

Yes they can.

But I replied that the reason for this is that the case is making connection to the ground. Anyway even before I cased this up I was still having problems.

Problems tend to occur when bad connections come in to play

 

[BFNY]

But I replied that the reason for this is that the case is making connection to the ground. Anyway even before I cased this up I was still having problems.

How do you know for sure it is making a connection? Did you measure the resistance from the RCA connector ground to the power supply ground? If not, you really don't know. Never assume anything, it will get you in trouble! I have had cases where gold on gold RCA connector grounds were not making a good connection due to being dirty. It played, but didn't sound as good, and under some cases had excessive hum.

 

[Professor smith]

How do you know for sure it is making a connection? Did you measure the resistance from the RCA connector ground to the power supply ground? If not, you really don't know. Never assume anything, it will get you in trouble! I have had cases where gold on gold RCA connector grounds were not making a good connection due to being dirty. It played, but didn't sound as good, and under some cases had excessive hum.

because it works? if it wasn't making a connection, it wouldnt work. No I didnt measure the resistance from rca to ground, but what would it tell me? If its connected then there wont be any resistance, and if its not then the resistance would be too high to measure.

 

[Diomedian]

If its connected then there wont be any resistance, and if its not then the resistance would be too high to measure.

On the other hand, a poor connection will have a measurable resistance. Why not just humour us and try it?

-d

 

[GRollins]

its people like you who make me want to isolate myself from.

I dont know who you are but there is some arrogance about you that puts me off. I WANt to learn but its got to be on MY terms not on YOURS. Now I understand that may come as abit of a blow to the so called authorities egos, but that's the way I want things to be done.

Hence, why I tend to get into arguments and end up having to isolate myself from the world.

There are any number of ways I could answer this, but I will restrain myself to simply pointing out one simple, obvious fact...
Your way isn't working!
Please, for everyone's sake: Get a good book about electronics. Read it. Learn something. Quit arguing just because someone said something you didn't want to hear.
This qualifies as arrogance?
Suit yourself.

Grey

 

[Professor smith]

There are any number of ways I could answer this, but I will restrain myself to simply pointing out one simple, obvious fact...
Your way isn't working!
Please, for everyone's sake: Get a good book about electronics. Read it. Learn something. Quit arguing just because someone said something you didn't want to hear.
This qualifies as arrogance?
Suit yourself.

Grey

my way WILL work but it requires that the other person do as I say rather than the other way around. So if I ask questions then they will need to be answered. It requires full cooperation on their part and clearly in some cases their ego will stop them from doing this.

 

[jimbo51]

my way WILL work but it requires that the other person do as I say rather than the other way around. So if I ask questions then they will need to be answered. It requires full cooperation on their part and clearly in some cases their ego will stop them from doing this.

Enough is enough.

diyAudio is clearly not the place for you.

It works brilliantly for people who understand the meaning of "co" in co-operation - 2 people working together rather than one working for the other!

Please go away.

 

[MashBill]

Enough is enough.

diyAudio is clearly not the place for you.

It works brilliantly for people who understand the meaning of "co" in co-operation - 2 people working together rather than one working for the other!

Please go away.

Amen! I added P smith to my ignore list. Now if the rest of you will stop answering him with quotes, I will never have to read his petulant nonsense again. After all, i want to read this forum, but I want everyone to post the way I want you to post.....

Seriously, it's too bad things have gone this far. I have found everyone here to be very helpful. Then again, I tend to read more than I post and I am willing to try suggestions that are offered.

Bill

 

[troystg]

Mr. Grey

The restraint has certainly been noticed and appreciated by some members. Thank you.


All-

May I suggest ignoring such future posts? Sometimes people argue out of boredom and it is not productive in this type of environment.


Thank you again Mr. Pass for the thread, circuit and excellent contribution.

 

[flg]

Do It Yourself

 

[Looneytunes]

Hear, hear!

Please guys!

I’m a newbie. Mostly I lurk because I can’t contribute. Consequently, I have no right to comment. But, one thing I have always loved about the Pass Labs forum is its openness, its spirit of cooperation, and its general lack of personal criticism. I think a lot of this comes from Nelson himself. I have seen other posts in other forums, which could be construed as personally insulting, and I have never seen Nelson take the bait. I hope I have the privilege to meet this man one day.

Yes, a circuit problem can be really (and I mean really) frustrating to a newbie. And yes, helping a newbie can be equally frustrating to someone who knows the field inside and out (especially when there is so little to go on). But consider this, if Nelson invited you into his home to share his designs, knowledge, experience, and assistance, not to mention his company, would you guys 'get loud and personal' in the corner? I doubt it. The gurus here would try to help, and the newbies would take their ideas home and give them a try. If there were any persistent disagreements or conflicts, most people would try a different tack or politely walk away.

Please guys, when you feel the urge to be argumentative, please, please, please either try again or walk away!!! Please don’t disrespect Nelson’s house. The anonymity of the internet does not absolve impolite behavior. I may be Looney, but I would never disrespect what Nelson has created here.

Rant over.

Looney

 

[Gyuri]

You are right.

Gyuri

 

[flg]

Well put Looneytunes
I also beleive "Mr Grey" and others, promote the same philosophy and generally exhibit behavior and respect only found in this forum catagory. All it takes is a few hours searching and reading this and other catagories to pick that up...