You can see pictures on my webpage here:
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=224288642&albumId=0
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=224288642&albumId=0
Professor smith said:
you are lucky to hear anything through that ;
nobody can't help you with important tips and tricks , until you really learn basics .
there are numerous web tutorials , where you can read and see basic things - how to read schematics etc.
for start you need only that , and after some mileage , your understanding of things will be greater .... then you can ask what you need , and expect to have some results from responses
Professor smith said:
Looking at your pics, you are using insulated RCA connectors (so no ground connection to case) and you forgot to connect the ground wire on the RCA tab gnd connector.
Sometimes on old vintage tube stuff you will see RCAs bolted down direct to the chassis, and only 1 wire, but the ground connection in that case is through the grounded case.
It's bad practice anyway, so just connect your grounds to the RCA ground tab and it should work a *lot* better. BTW, I like to use a twisted pair of wire to the RCAs - one wire the signal, the other the ground. Run the grounds to the RCAs all individually from the star ground point, don't wire the RCA connector grounds in series.
Floric said:
Zen Mod said:
BFNY said:
There IS grounding to case actually, thats why I didnt bother to connect the ground to the RCA tab ground.
The whole case is the ground in my case too, only because the rca hole was so small that it cannot avoid tounching the rca socket.
But this is the thing I dont really see how star grounding as opposed to just connecting it any way, would make a difference in bass or treble harshness?
For those of us who have spent time attempting to convince computers to do our bidding, there is a term called "spaghetti code." Spaghetti code refers to programs written in a helter-skelter manner that makes them next to impossible to debug if they are not functioning properly. Modify the code (even with comments) a year or two later? Not on your life. Better to start from scratch and write new code.
Those pictures are a perfect representation in the physical realm of spaghetti code.
This is why I don't encourage the use of point-to-point wiring.
It's not impossible to 'debug' but there's not enough Highland Park in all of Scotland to convince me to try to figure out what's wrong. No, not even if you included all the Lagavulin.
Just be glad the original circuit isn't more complicated.
For what it's worth, I don't recommend a physical-to-the-chassis connection for ground.
1) Assuming that the chassis is aluminum, you will eventually lose the connection, as aluminum oxidizes readily and aluminum oxide doesn't conduct worth a toot. Never count on a so-called "gas-tight" connection. Ever. I mean it. Don't say I didn't warn you.
2) The consequences of losing ground connection are too horrible to contemplate. If you're going to leave a signal to chance, make it the hot connection (that channel will go silent), and not the ground (the offending channel with screech horribly for about half a second, then be forever silent...and I mean the forever part).
3) Reread my last post. Please get an electronics text. You're on thin ice here. If you have to ask what oscillations are, the ice is so thin you can read through it. Tread lightly.
Grey
Those pictures are a perfect representation in the physical realm of spaghetti code.
This is why I don't encourage the use of point-to-point wiring.
It's not impossible to 'debug' but there's not enough Highland Park in all of Scotland to convince me to try to figure out what's wrong. No, not even if you included all the Lagavulin.
Just be glad the original circuit isn't more complicated.
For what it's worth, I don't recommend a physical-to-the-chassis connection for ground.
1) Assuming that the chassis is aluminum, you will eventually lose the connection, as aluminum oxidizes readily and aluminum oxide doesn't conduct worth a toot. Never count on a so-called "gas-tight" connection. Ever. I mean it. Don't say I didn't warn you.
2) The consequences of losing ground connection are too horrible to contemplate. If you're going to leave a signal to chance, make it the hot connection (that channel will go silent), and not the ground (the offending channel with screech horribly for about half a second, then be forever silent...and I mean the forever part).
3) Reread my last post. Please get an electronics text. You're on thin ice here. If you have to ask what oscillations are, the ice is so thin you can read through it. Tread lightly.
Grey
But am I on the wrong website then? since nobdy seems to be able to answer my questions.
I'm not an expert but I'm not a total beginner either. I CAN read schematics and I DO know the basics.
1) Either there is a connection or there isn't correct? If there isn't then I wont get any music coming through. But I am, which means its not a connection issue so I accept your point but its not relevant to why all of a sudden I am getting worse sound than before.
I'm not an expert but I'm not a total beginner either. I CAN read schematics and I DO know the basics.
GRollins said:
1) Either there is a connection or there isn't correct? If there isn't then I wont get any music coming through. But I am, which means its not a connection issue so I accept your point but its not relevant to why all of a sudden I am getting worse sound than before.
Assemble it carefully on a pefboard with single point earthing, so you can avoid some ''maybe this'' or ''maybe that'' debugging ''scenarios'' firstly. See if something will change. If nothing changes, at least its going to be neat, future serviceable, and you will know where not to look next.
P.S. I also recommend the use of shielded coaxial cable, especially in this case due to the danger of digital noise escaping somewhere. You may actually do just that for starters if you won't bother with berfoard reassembly, i.e. wire your signal route with coax and listen for the possibility of the sound getting deeper and softer.
Dear Professor Smith,
No, you are on the right one. Everyone is nice to you and gave you good advices. After seeing the pictures we (they) may think that there is low probability to debug it...they told you so on diplomatic ways...
First step of troubleshooting (there are many tutorials about it on the web): did it ever worked?-->yes. Return too the EXACT configuration where you were satisfied with the sound...then follow the advices you received and probably the sound will be even better.
Good Luck,
M
No, you are on the right one. Everyone is nice to you and gave you good advices. After seeing the pictures we (they) may think that there is low probability to debug it...they told you so on diplomatic ways...
First step of troubleshooting (there are many tutorials about it on the web): did it ever worked?-->yes. Return too the EXACT configuration where you were satisfied with the sound...then follow the advices you received and probably the sound will be even better.
Good Luck,
M
No you aren't. You just ignored the answers we gave you. I told you, that I had the same effect with the B1 and that it was a broken wire to the ground. On your pictures I saw that at least this wiring is (at least) prone to errors.
If my assumption is right, your question "how does this affect..." can only be answered with guesses.
This is wrong, there are possibilities of a bad connection that measures as 0R (sometimes/most of the time) but breaks down if it has to carry a signal an example would be a cold solder joint. With an improper grounding you might get a signal because all voltages you get from the line are related to earth potential in any way. But to get a proper signal, you have to fix this relation.
Professor smith said:
The thing is, people have answered your questions. Many times and in many ways. You appear to be ignoring anyone who says things you don't want to hear. Accusing (by implication) those who have tried to help you by demanding to know if DIY isn't the right site doesn't help your circuit, nor does it improve your position.
Insisting that you're not a total beginner is also unhelpful. If you knew the basics, you wouldn't judge capacitance by the physical size of a cap. That method of measuring capacitance is...shall we say...fraught with peril. The size of a cap varies with the type (electrolytic, film, ceramic, etc.), voltage (higher voltage leads to bigger caps), and with manufacturer. It even varies within the same manufacturer's product lines. I would suggest reading the side of the cap. Some of the black ones seem to be 2.2uF, for instance. And are those 450V caps? Hmmm...
No, not correct. You can have poor quality connections. you can have cold solder joint. You can have connections that are just flat wrong (and, yes, it's quite possible to have wrong connections and still have sound come through).
By your own admission, something is wrong. To insist, repeatedly, that the circuit is built properly flies in the face of your observed results. You can't have it both ways. Your course of action is up to you, but I cannot see that your present one will have a happy ending.
Grey
GRollins said:
The problem is everybody is gving out different answers, and then when I try to follow up a particular response, the person no longer replies.
Yes the caps are about 450v. To be honest if they were clearly marked, then I wouldnt have such trouble knowing what the values were.
I'm not accusing anyone, it's just that I really feel I'm not getting the right response which is why I questioned if I'm on the right site.
If ONE person could talk me through things and answer my questions one by one, that would be helpful to me.
The thing is, my question wasn't answered as to why star grounding should play any part in this. I'm not getting any humming anymore, just some hissing, and the real problem is the overall sound. The bass and the treble doesnt sound the same as before.
How can it be that poor quality connections or cold solder joints can play any part in bass response or dynamics?
The star grounding allows for any node that should be at a GND potential, to actually be at GND. If the grounding scheme is more like a tree, braches coming together on their way to ground, the extra current will create a voltage above GND. Albeit a small voltage, this node would then not be GNDed. If one of those currents has AC "hum" characteristics, then you will likely develope hum in the signal path as the GND gose up and down with the AC current.
As far as dynamics, bass and dynamics need higher currents, generally speaking, if you have a bad solder joint or some sort of current limiting connection, you may not have the momentary high currents (low source impeadance) needed for good dynamics
Just something to think about
As far as dynamics, bass and dynamics need higher currents, generally speaking, if you have a bad solder joint or some sort of current limiting connection, you may not have the momentary high currents (low source impeadance) needed for good dynamics
Just something to think about
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