because start tomorrow i will busy , so i have to finished the Symmetric B-1 layout today.
it take me a whole day to finished (again, this is really FUN)
Not Tested yet, maybe next 2 or 3 week i will test my own layout.
this is the result ( i put the relays back) and this is dual mono.
i have try to build like Jean-Paul schema, but the layout looks not good in my eyes.
@ Salas and Jean-Paul
i will sent it to your mail tomorrow.
Regards
La Ode
it take me a whole day to finished (again, this is really FUN)
Not Tested yet, maybe next 2 or 3 week i will test my own layout.
this is the result ( i put the relays back) and this is dual mono.
i have try to build like Jean-Paul schema, but the layout looks not good in my eyes.
@ Salas and Jean-Paul
i will sent it to your mail tomorrow.
Regards
La Ode
crt said:because start tomorrow i will busy , so i have to finished the Symmetric B-1 layout today.
it take me a whole day to finished (again, this is really FUN)
i have try to build like Jean-Paul schema, but the layout looks not good in my eyes.
Regards
La Ode
Possibly because I used Eagle for the first time
I just found my adhesive pads and tracks with which I used to layout PCBs....BTW the PCB looks very good and it is well decoupled. However, there is a track missing from the transistor to the relay.
I see you used dual mono layout. Technically very nice but it will take 2 mains transformers to keep it dual mono. One bridge for 2 channels is enough but maybe the last drop of perceived quality can be squeezed out this way
jean-paul said:
I see you used dual mono layout.
Technically very nice but it will take 2 mains transformers to keep it dual mono.
One bridge for 2 channels is enough but maybe the last drop of perceived quality can be squeezed out this way
Thats perfect
If you dont like 2 trafos, I suppose theres no problem using just one trafo still
Actually, I would like double bridged pr channel as well
And could do with just 1 pair of supply caps
But maybe its a good idea with the resistors seperating the 2 pairs, I have heard it should be good with preamps
Status of first build
Today have finished and fired up my first build, the B1 preamp, replacing the Golden Tube SEP-1 in my setup. I want to thank all those who have helped me procure items and advised me during the process. I would like to say everything went flawless, but there were some hiccups along the way. First, I did not notice the layout of the wiring to the pots is symmetric, so I wired one of the channels incorrectly (putting CW in the CCW spot and visa-versa). Luckily nothing was broke and I discovered my amplifier and speaker setup can handle full-output of the B1. I will never want to listen at the volume, but there was no clipping or distortion!
After this minor hiccup all is working. While I need to replace the switch (discovering the on-(on) is not the same as on-on), and the pots (got the wrong taper and discovered that reverse logarithmic taper give me a tenth of a turn realistic adjustment), listening to the preamp at this point I have discovered a depth and imaging beyond my prior equipment. There is absolutely not noise or hum. If I had not wired in the LED I would not know the preamp was on. My rather skeptical wife (skeptical of this project on the need for a drill press, not skeptical by nature) has commented that the set-up it sounds very good. She very much hates the current reverse log taper pots venomously. Thus far some Richard Thompson, Bill Frissel, and Avo Part recordings all sound clear and non-fatigueing.
I am left with two questions upon which I could appreciate feedback. In order to add a switch to the front of my chassis I have to drill a thick aluminum plate. Otherwise I could run wires around board within the chassis and put the switch in the back. Alternatively I am contemplating placing the switch in front and using a switch with LED (see http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=360-2320-ND. If put the switch in the rear I would use a simple switch and likely skip the LED altogether.
Second, I want to replace the pots and am consider these linear carbon pots by PEC (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=RV4N253C-ND). Any alternative suggestions or affirmations would be greatly appreciated.
Last, I am just so tickled to truly construct something that sounds so damn good. The FET Circlotron project is now beckoning.
Today have finished and fired up my first build, the B1 preamp, replacing the Golden Tube SEP-1 in my setup. I want to thank all those who have helped me procure items and advised me during the process. I would like to say everything went flawless, but there were some hiccups along the way. First, I did not notice the layout of the wiring to the pots is symmetric, so I wired one of the channels incorrectly (putting CW in the CCW spot and visa-versa). Luckily nothing was broke and I discovered my amplifier and speaker setup can handle full-output of the B1. I will never want to listen at the volume, but there was no clipping or distortion!
After this minor hiccup all is working. While I need to replace the switch (discovering the on-(on) is not the same as on-on), and the pots (got the wrong taper and discovered that reverse logarithmic taper give me a tenth of a turn realistic adjustment), listening to the preamp at this point I have discovered a depth and imaging beyond my prior equipment. There is absolutely not noise or hum. If I had not wired in the LED I would not know the preamp was on. My rather skeptical wife (skeptical of this project on the need for a drill press, not skeptical by nature) has commented that the set-up it sounds very good. She very much hates the current reverse log taper pots venomously. Thus far some Richard Thompson, Bill Frissel, and Avo Part recordings all sound clear and non-fatigueing.
I am left with two questions upon which I could appreciate feedback. In order to add a switch to the front of my chassis I have to drill a thick aluminum plate. Otherwise I could run wires around board within the chassis and put the switch in the back. Alternatively I am contemplating placing the switch in front and using a switch with LED (see http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=360-2320-ND. If put the switch in the rear I would use a simple switch and likely skip the LED altogether.
Second, I want to replace the pots and am consider these linear carbon pots by PEC (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=RV4N253C-ND). Any alternative suggestions or affirmations would be greatly appreciated.
Last, I am just so tickled to truly construct something that sounds so damn good. The FET Circlotron project is now beckoning.
crt said:hallo i have question ( see picture)
can i use main supply for relays supply ?
@ Jean-Paul
Track missing for relays ? i have follow as salas schema
Yes, you can use the main supply/supplies for the relay. Please check the relay as it is hanging in the air at one side. It doen not get power this way. It is not connected to +.
Please rethink the dual mono approach or change the PCB for use with either one or ( better ) two diode bridges but with one transformer. That is way more practical with building this device.
BTW in the schematic you attached there is the buffer cap for the relay power supply missing. Also the relay needs a diode across it instead of the 700 ohm resistor.
JP
pnp bjt instead of npn
I've just ordered the B1 buffer pcb from Pass labs last week , but while I wait for it , I'd wanted to try Jean-Paul schematic. I don't have any npn transistors now but i have 20 BC640 (PNP). Is it possible just to reverse(oppside down) the schematic and put Pnp in there instead and still don't have to use capasitors at the in and out's?
I've just ordered the B1 buffer pcb from Pass labs last week , but while I wait for it , I'd wanted to try Jean-Paul schematic. I don't have any npn transistors now but i have 20 BC640 (PNP). Is it possible just to reverse(oppside down) the schematic and put Pnp in there instead and still don't have to use capasitors at the in and out's?
jean-paul said:
Why don't you embed a mono symmetric shunt PSU instead of double mono +/- series chip reg? It only has chances to lift the subjective performance and due to mOhm output impedance there is not much into making it in double mono.
Example.
If you are interested to go that way, just use 5 pieces 2V LEDs string instead of the Zener, and make Vin 16-18V.
Energy Efficiency
Jean-Paul, there are worse ways to burn energy than run Class A......for instance, take economic globalization !
From an energy standpoint it is extremely wasteful !! For example, the cost of shipping European, Japanese, Chinese, or Korean autos TO the USA via container ships, defeats any carbon benefits they might provide once in service - at least for the first year. This is due to transportation energy usage, and the fact that many "low cost producers" could give a s$% about the impact of their industries on the environment.
I believe the coal soot the Chinese are putting into the Arctic atmosphere has more to do with the demise of the polar ice cap, (and the problems it poses for polar bears), than general global warming. When the Chinese start putting scrubbers on their coal-fired powerplants, I will consider buying their crap. In the meantime I will drive my American V8 with a clear conscience. (Besides, there is no substitute for cubic inches !!)
As a global village, we do a LOT of stupid things that must be revisited, once we get serious about energy conservation and global warming, and it will involve, of necessity, a lot of LOCAL thinking, (like DIY audio !!). I personally am looking forward to the restoration of US engineering and manufacturing to its rightful place as the world standard.
Running pre-amps and amps in Class A is a very minor wrinkle in this whole picture. To wit, my desk lamp burns more electricity than my Pearl / B-1 preamp, but doesn't sound near as good.
Jean-Paul, there are worse ways to burn energy than run Class A......for instance, take economic globalization !
From an energy standpoint it is extremely wasteful !! For example, the cost of shipping European, Japanese, Chinese, or Korean autos TO the USA via container ships, defeats any carbon benefits they might provide once in service - at least for the first year. This is due to transportation energy usage, and the fact that many "low cost producers" could give a s$% about the impact of their industries on the environment.
I believe the coal soot the Chinese are putting into the Arctic atmosphere has more to do with the demise of the polar ice cap, (and the problems it poses for polar bears), than general global warming. When the Chinese start putting scrubbers on their coal-fired powerplants, I will consider buying their crap. In the meantime I will drive my American V8 with a clear conscience. (Besides, there is no substitute for cubic inches !!)
As a global village, we do a LOT of stupid things that must be revisited, once we get serious about energy conservation and global warming, and it will involve, of necessity, a lot of LOCAL thinking, (like DIY audio !!). I personally am looking forward to the restoration of US engineering and manufacturing to its rightful place as the world standard.
Running pre-amps and amps in Class A is a very minor wrinkle in this whole picture. To wit, my desk lamp burns more electricity than my Pearl / B-1 preamp, but doesn't sound near as good.
Originally posted by Nelson Pass
I have nothing against special components. What I was saying is
that I leave plenty of opportunities on the table, and the possibilities
of better parts are among them
This is what often makes DIY Audio hobby fun:
- We are allowed to try our own idea(s) - here in Pass Labs department
How boring to just get served the Ultimate and Best
.. when in fact in all our subjectivity there is no such thing ... or even amplifier.
Keep your good & simply diy line Nelson
Let us get the barebone and good circuit .. and happily work from there
until we have one unique and good amplifier, each of us.
Zen Mod & Babowana & Jean-Paul and Salas and whatever we are called,
We are all part of developing a good Pass design further .. sometimes for less improvements,
but many a times for good. At least 'good' in our own and important opinion.
/lineup - summarize, taking his springoff from one-two Nelson Pass posts.