D OB G said:
The price of B&C drivers in Australia are very expensive. I suggest you find someone in the States to buy for you and post them to you via USPN International, it is much cheaper that way. I bought my DE250 that way, they are EXCELLENT and cheap I paid about AUD$330(about US$0.9 to AUD$1 then) incl postage for a pair, local price is AUD$265 each
BTW I have the contact name of the dist. in Australia,
name:acoustics technologies
tel: 07 3376 4122
email:info@atprofessional.com.au
DE250 and RCF horn
Also I used horn from RCF, model: H100, this combo is very good, very under rated, the price of H100 is less than US$30 each, cheap but NOT nasty, I have tried a few horn/waveguide this one is the best fit(mechanically and electrically). Little or no equalization required.
I mentioned this a few times before no take notice as I am not an expert. This combo was introduced to me by a french man who made extensive measurements(really), I decided to give them a go.
I am using the combo now. Cheap and very good performance really believe me, I made measurements myself as well.Sounds good too, very dynamic.
Also I used horn from RCF, model: H100, this combo is very good, very under rated, the price of H100 is less than US$30 each, cheap but NOT nasty, I have tried a few horn/waveguide this one is the best fit(mechanically and electrically). Little or no equalization required.
I mentioned this a few times before no take notice as I am not an expert. This combo was introduced to me by a french man who made extensive measurements(really), I decided to give them a go.
I am using the combo now. Cheap and very good performance really believe me, I made measurements myself as well.Sounds good too, very dynamic.
SamL said:
I have tried the cheap horn(10") from Dayton, also used by Emerald Physics, and the cheap JBL tested here by Gedlee, the JBL is OK but needs equalization to performance welll. Of the 3 units RCF is the best.
I did not use the AE15", I use the combo(DE50 and RCF) with a 10" OLD alnico woofer mounted in a box. This 2 way is similar to the configuration used by AudioKinesis. I have tried many other configurations incl. open baffle, such as TWW and TMWW. If you want to build one try TMWW is better the TWW(used by emerald physics).
cheers.
Stereolab tractrix
I went ahead and ordered a pair of stereolab 1000Hz tractrix horns. These are milled from a stone compound. I will most likely use them with the B&C DE400 1" driver with neo magnet and mylar dome crossed somewhere between 2kHz and 3kHz.
I'm looking forward to hearing the combo. Wonder how much beaming is an issue with tractrix at 10 feet listening distance.
best
Kris
I went ahead and ordered a pair of stereolab 1000Hz tractrix horns. These are milled from a stone compound. I will most likely use them with the B&C DE400 1" driver with neo magnet and mylar dome crossed somewhere between 2kHz and 3kHz.
I'm looking forward to hearing the combo. Wonder how much beaming is an issue with tractrix at 10 feet listening distance.
best
Kris
Re: DE250 and RCF horn
Hello,
I confirm the excellent results that one can obtain using the B&C DE250 river mounted on the RCF H100 horn.
You'll find some additional
informations measurements and simulations about the B&C DE250 + HF100 horn on my friend Francis Brooke webstite at:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/francis.audio2/Filtre_Passif_15MI100_DE250.pdf
with a quite accurate method to optimize a crossover for a 2 ways enclosure comprising the DE250 and
Also you can find on the same website a comparison (frequency response, distortion curves H2 and H3, waterfall, impedance...) between several 1" compression drivers (including the B&C DE250) measured on the same horn (a Le Cléac'h horn J500 build by Marco Henry, with Fc = 500Hz)
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/francis.audio2/Comparaison_1pouce.pdf
Finally, you can see the results of a comparison (frequency response, distortion curves H3, spectrograms, pulse reponse, group delay curve ...) between several horns including the H100 mounted with the DE250 compression driver.
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/francis.audio2/Comparaison_FD700_Marco870_H100_Marco500_H320.pdf
Those documents are in French bust the graphs are easily understandable.
They are a good illustration of the "French touch" when it comes to audio optimization.
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Hello,
I confirm the excellent results that one can obtain using the B&C DE250 river mounted on the RCF H100 horn.
You'll find some additional
informations measurements and simulations about the B&C DE250 + HF100 horn on my friend Francis Brooke webstite at:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/francis.audio2/Filtre_Passif_15MI100_DE250.pdf
with a quite accurate method to optimize a crossover for a 2 ways enclosure comprising the DE250 and
Also you can find on the same website a comparison (frequency response, distortion curves H2 and H3, waterfall, impedance...) between several 1" compression drivers (including the B&C DE250) measured on the same horn (a Le Cléac'h horn J500 build by Marco Henry, with Fc = 500Hz)
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/francis.audio2/Comparaison_1pouce.pdf
Finally, you can see the results of a comparison (frequency response, distortion curves H3, spectrograms, pulse reponse, group delay curve ...) between several horns including the H100 mounted with the DE250 compression driver.
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/francis.audio2/Comparaison_FD700_Marco870_H100_Marco500_H320.pdf
Those documents are in French bust the graphs are easily understandable.
They are a good illustration of the "French touch" when it comes to audio optimization.
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
ttan98 said:
UPDATE BMS 4548 PLUS
Today I had a chance to measure a BMS 4548 PLUS (sometimes sold as BMS 4548 OEM - label gives both names). I tried it on the XT1086 and RCF H100 horns; the first might be termed a gentle diffraction horn while the second has a bigger slope discontinuity on one axis. Measurements were made with the horns naked and then stuffed with quite a lot of wadding to ensure strong suppression of any "cavity modes" there may be (HOMs, perhaps, though I've neither measured nor modelled enough to be sure.).
Again I'm not going to include plots, as they only really make sense relative to each other and may mislead if taken as absolute. The first and main thing to say is that the BMS is much closer in smoothness of response to the DE250 than the ND1060 (and that is good).
The DE250 is probably still easiest to equalise, the minor differences with the BMS were: slightly less damped at the low frequency resonances (700Hz and just over 2kHz -but these are no problem), and two slightly sharper peaks at the top end of the band (above 15 kHz), whereas the B&C had one little peak before the sharp drop. I doubt I could hear the difference (with or without changing the EQ).
The BMS 4550 datasheet would give a reasonable guide as to what to expect from the 4548 PLUS - I guess they are not very different - perhaps the 4550 has tightened tolerances or different materials for a claimed 5% increase in gap flux at 2T(!).
Now why would I need a single BMS 4548?
Ken
Today I had a chance to measure a BMS 4548 PLUS (sometimes sold as BMS 4548 OEM - label gives both names). I tried it on the XT1086 and RCF H100 horns; the first might be termed a gentle diffraction horn while the second has a bigger slope discontinuity on one axis. Measurements were made with the horns naked and then stuffed with quite a lot of wadding to ensure strong suppression of any "cavity modes" there may be (HOMs, perhaps, though I've neither measured nor modelled enough to be sure.).
Again I'm not going to include plots, as they only really make sense relative to each other and may mislead if taken as absolute. The first and main thing to say is that the BMS is much closer in smoothness of response to the DE250 than the ND1060 (and that is good).
The DE250 is probably still easiest to equalise, the minor differences with the BMS were: slightly less damped at the low frequency resonances (700Hz and just over 2kHz -but these are no problem), and two slightly sharper peaks at the top end of the band (above 15 kHz), whereas the B&C had one little peak before the sharp drop. I doubt I could hear the difference (with or without changing the EQ).
The BMS 4550 datasheet would give a reasonable guide as to what to expect from the 4548 PLUS - I guess they are not very different - perhaps the 4550 has tightened tolerances or different materials for a claimed 5% increase in gap flux at 2T(!).
Now why would I need a single BMS 4548?
Ken
Horizons said:
The thing is that the crossover differs (or at least all of mine do) with the waveguide. Different waveguides have different loading and resonances and lead to different crossover designs. If you use one of my waveguides I can provide the crossover design for it, but it won't work on an arbitrary horn/waveguide.
gedlee said:
I understand completely. I am moving away from active and going passive so I am starting from scratch.
Are these prices for your waveguides per pair (I hope)?
http://www.gedlee.com/waveguides.htm
How low can i use the B&C DE250 on XT-1086 ?
I would like to cross them with B&C 12PLB76. Any help?
http://www.bcspeakers.com/product.php?id=0000000044
I would like to cross them with B&C 12PLB76. Any help?
http://www.bcspeakers.com/product.php?id=0000000044
a007udio said:
From the XO thread (which I also quoted), I see you seem to have measurement gear, etc. and likely the means to generate a crossover. In that case I'd say get measuring!
I think, though I couldn't prove it, that inserting some sound absorbing material in the horn helps (a la Geddes).
You'll need to equalise the DE250, of course, but that is pretty easy if you are driving it direct from an amp and know how to make good crossover functions in a PC.
I'd start around 1.4 kHz crossover, as the XT1086 is a bit small to go lower with directivity control. A bigger waveguide say 12" would be easier and better, if you can get one. I only tried the XT1086 due to lack of alternatives.
I've not used the 12PLB76, so have nothing to say about it.
Hope I interpreted your question correctly.
Ken
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