Interesting as well-
“Although we usually hear more intense sounds as seeming louder than quiet sounds, our perception of loudness is not dictated simply by the strength or intensity of the sound generating the perception. Some sounds become loud, intrusive and unpleasant because of their meaning or association. This is almost universally true for the sound created by scratching chalk on a blackboard. In most cases, the association has some threatening qualities: will the sound damage the ears?; will it disturb sleep?; will it reduce quality of life by reducing periods of quiet recreation?; will they interfere with concentration?
Very often the over-sensitivity for sounds is begun by an irrational fear, which nevertheless becomes a very strongly held belief. This is commonly the source of distress in those who believe that their lives are ruined by environmental noise from nearby factories, generators or low frequency sounds transmitted through the ground (which other people may be unable to hear). Because the central auditory processing mechanism is so powerful, it is possible to “train” it by constantly listening to, and monitoring small sounds. This turns them into very loud, intrusive and unpleasant sounds which are constantly audible whether they like it or not.”
“Although we usually hear more intense sounds as seeming louder than quiet sounds, our perception of loudness is not dictated simply by the strength or intensity of the sound generating the perception. Some sounds become loud, intrusive and unpleasant because of their meaning or association. This is almost universally true for the sound created by scratching chalk on a blackboard. In most cases, the association has some threatening qualities: will the sound damage the ears?; will it disturb sleep?; will it reduce quality of life by reducing periods of quiet recreation?; will they interfere with concentration?
Very often the over-sensitivity for sounds is begun by an irrational fear, which nevertheless becomes a very strongly held belief. This is commonly the source of distress in those who believe that their lives are ruined by environmental noise from nearby factories, generators or low frequency sounds transmitted through the ground (which other people may be unable to hear). Because the central auditory processing mechanism is so powerful, it is possible to “train” it by constantly listening to, and monitoring small sounds. This turns them into very loud, intrusive and unpleasant sounds which are constantly audible whether they like it or not.”
And-
“Another way to look at this problem is to consider the ear rather like a musical instrument. Most instruments have what musicians call a dynamic range. They are able to play very softly (pianissimo) or very loudly (fortissimo). A normal ear is one not only with good hearing but also with a full dynamic range for different intensities of sound. A recruiting ear is one in which the dynamic range is narrowed or contracted. If sounds are heard at all, they are heard in musical terms as ‘fortissimo’.
In addition to the recruitment effect in the cochlea, the brain plays a big part in sensitivity to sound. When sounds reach the inner ear, they are coded into their individual frequency components. The 10,000 fibres in the auditory nerve carry information about the individual frequencies of each complex sound that we hear and half a second later, these reach the sub- cortex of the hearing part of the brain (in the temporal lobe) where conscious perception of sound occurs.
Until the message reaches consciousness, no sound is heard. During the passage of this coded signal it undergoes a great deal of processing, similar to a computer, but much more complex. The central auditory system is first of all concerned with extracting important messages from unimportant background noise. Often the signal is relatively weak in strength, but strong in meaning. An example of this would be the detection of the quiet sound of a predator by an animal living in a hostile environment. Another example would be the ability to detect the sound of one’s name across a crowded room, while other names, even if spoken quite loudly, would go unnoticed.
In the subconscious part of the brain, an important signal is detected on the basis of previously learnt experience. This signal may then be enhanced and its passage facilitated in nerve pathways (referred to as neuronal networks) by the changing of electrical resistance between nerve cells in the pathway. This is similar to the switching that occurs in the telephone exchange to allow one person to speak to another. When the enhanced signal reaches the sub-cortex where conscious perception will occur, the electrical pattern has to be matched with another pattern that is held in our hearing memory. This pattern-matching event may be very weak, resulting in a weak perception of sound.
A strong pattern match results in a loud and intrusive sound perception. The strength of pattern matching and consequent sound perception is governed by the limbic system (the centre of learning and emotion) and the prefrontal cortex (the part of the brain concerned with behaviour). The original purpose of this ability to amplify small signals and to suppress others was to facilitate the detection of potential threats in the environment.”
From: https://www.deafhear.ie/DHFiles/docs/Hyperacusis, Recruitment and Loudness Discomfort.pdf
“Another way to look at this problem is to consider the ear rather like a musical instrument. Most instruments have what musicians call a dynamic range. They are able to play very softly (pianissimo) or very loudly (fortissimo). A normal ear is one not only with good hearing but also with a full dynamic range for different intensities of sound. A recruiting ear is one in which the dynamic range is narrowed or contracted. If sounds are heard at all, they are heard in musical terms as ‘fortissimo’.
In addition to the recruitment effect in the cochlea, the brain plays a big part in sensitivity to sound. When sounds reach the inner ear, they are coded into their individual frequency components. The 10,000 fibres in the auditory nerve carry information about the individual frequencies of each complex sound that we hear and half a second later, these reach the sub- cortex of the hearing part of the brain (in the temporal lobe) where conscious perception of sound occurs.
Until the message reaches consciousness, no sound is heard. During the passage of this coded signal it undergoes a great deal of processing, similar to a computer, but much more complex. The central auditory system is first of all concerned with extracting important messages from unimportant background noise. Often the signal is relatively weak in strength, but strong in meaning. An example of this would be the detection of the quiet sound of a predator by an animal living in a hostile environment. Another example would be the ability to detect the sound of one’s name across a crowded room, while other names, even if spoken quite loudly, would go unnoticed.
In the subconscious part of the brain, an important signal is detected on the basis of previously learnt experience. This signal may then be enhanced and its passage facilitated in nerve pathways (referred to as neuronal networks) by the changing of electrical resistance between nerve cells in the pathway. This is similar to the switching that occurs in the telephone exchange to allow one person to speak to another. When the enhanced signal reaches the sub-cortex where conscious perception will occur, the electrical pattern has to be matched with another pattern that is held in our hearing memory. This pattern-matching event may be very weak, resulting in a weak perception of sound.
A strong pattern match results in a loud and intrusive sound perception. The strength of pattern matching and consequent sound perception is governed by the limbic system (the centre of learning and emotion) and the prefrontal cortex (the part of the brain concerned with behaviour). The original purpose of this ability to amplify small signals and to suppress others was to facilitate the detection of potential threats in the environment.”
From: https://www.deafhear.ie/DHFiles/docs/Hyperacusis, Recruitment and Loudness Discomfort.pdf
Probably the rationale ( the always awaken rational part ) attributes to the object or contest the cause of the pain and wants to make justice immediatly > that is negated by the insistence and progression of the sound > next reaction is to escape from the situation
that causes pain
Yes, pain ( probably ) or sense of not-being-there
It reminds me of some situation ....
that causes pain
Yes, pain ( probably ) or sense of not-being-there
It reminds me of some situation ....
Another relevant article I stumbled across here:
How the Shape of Your Ears Affects What You Hear - The New York Times
How the Shape of Your Ears Affects What You Hear - The New York Times
And if that opinion is not met with praise, you're out.
Where did that come from?
No, that's turning what he said into something negative and that's when the fight derail started.
Fair enough, I just wanted to express what I thought were 'readers impressions'.
Absolutely lets let it go.
I'm blown away by space's commitment to this !
And I'm starting to understand why,
He's got a personal drive and
We have a collection of PROs here: theory, testing, application, materials, production, distribution ...
Can you give us some short: (e.g: good noise cancel headphones )
medium: (e.g: w DSP to target personal freq )
and long-term goals: (e.g: facial recog w emot interp app on cell)
Do we need a DSPer?
A hearing AID programmer?
Backing from the Ed inst of Ed?
An APPS developer?
We Gottemal!
Cheers!
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Thanks I’m glad to get over that hump there. Those kind of things get circuitous. I’m no saint by any stretch, just trying to do some good where I can.
I think we need to begin with testing to figure out what the problems are.
My guess is:
Quantity- large quantity of sounds at on time
Frequency sensitivity- particular types of sound
Perceived Loudness
Dealing with complex sounds- a voice for example asking a question with lots of other ambient noise (what are the useful sounds that aren’t “getting enough attention”)
There must be some way to measure perceived loudness? But, I’m not familiar.
I’m sure I’m missing something as well as not using proper terminology. Perhaps someone can correct me.
Would some of this qualify as “relative amplitude of a sound” ?
It’s not really a hearing / not hearing issue. It has to gauge emotional response and I suppose rate this on a subjective point scale.
Obviously we should use test participants who rank on the spectrum, perhaps including some kind of spectrum quotient alongside their test results.
I bet even with diyaudio we’d have a nice small group of those on the spectrum, or those with family members who they could encourage to take it.
Then other methodologies were discussed in the medical literature like utilizing pink noise which I don’t fully understand.
I don’t really know how all this should be implemented into a test protocol. Maybe others more experienced than I could chime in and shave this down into something less abstract.
As you said, lots of pros here though thankfully because how to realize something like this is way out of my domain.
I’ve personally checked out tests by both Mooly and PMA, maybe they’d want to offer a hand.
Then some kind of rough test equipment could be utilized with a mic, dsp and headphones.
The hearing aid is obviously very small and complex, an app utilizing some kind of open source dsp and maybe piggy-backing / modifying existing correction algorithms could be considered.
So, first one must identify the problem in detail, then develop a viable solution however clunky, then deal with scale, implementation, utilities and accessories, non-primary functionality, etc.
That would be my best guess.
As you said very succinctly, I think this something ripe to address, with the ideal population to address it.
Open sourcing it would provide free treatment to just about anyone with a computer and headphones.
And by the time us slow pokes come up with something viable there will likely be an arduino that plugs right into your brain, making the technical hurdles moot ;-)
I think we need to begin with testing to figure out what the problems are.
My guess is:
Quantity- large quantity of sounds at on time
Frequency sensitivity- particular types of sound
Perceived Loudness
Dealing with complex sounds- a voice for example asking a question with lots of other ambient noise (what are the useful sounds that aren’t “getting enough attention”)
There must be some way to measure perceived loudness? But, I’m not familiar.
I’m sure I’m missing something as well as not using proper terminology. Perhaps someone can correct me.
Would some of this qualify as “relative amplitude of a sound” ?
It’s not really a hearing / not hearing issue. It has to gauge emotional response and I suppose rate this on a subjective point scale.
Obviously we should use test participants who rank on the spectrum, perhaps including some kind of spectrum quotient alongside their test results.
I bet even with diyaudio we’d have a nice small group of those on the spectrum, or those with family members who they could encourage to take it.
Then other methodologies were discussed in the medical literature like utilizing pink noise which I don’t fully understand.
I don’t really know how all this should be implemented into a test protocol. Maybe others more experienced than I could chime in and shave this down into something less abstract.
As you said, lots of pros here though thankfully because how to realize something like this is way out of my domain.
I’ve personally checked out tests by both Mooly and PMA, maybe they’d want to offer a hand.
Then some kind of rough test equipment could be utilized with a mic, dsp and headphones.
The hearing aid is obviously very small and complex, an app utilizing some kind of open source dsp and maybe piggy-backing / modifying existing correction algorithms could be considered.
So, first one must identify the problem in detail, then develop a viable solution however clunky, then deal with scale, implementation, utilities and accessories, non-primary functionality, etc.
That would be my best guess.
As you said very succinctly, I think this something ripe to address, with the ideal population to address it.
Open sourcing it would provide free treatment to just about anyone with a computer and headphones.
And by the time us slow pokes come up with something viable there will likely be an arduino that plugs right into your brain, making the technical hurdles moot ;-)
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Also, to avoid some confusion I’ve seen develop in other threads let’s get this one out of the way:
Since I didn’t say so before I’d like to clearly state that anything I contribute here I release into the public domain for the benefit of this population of people and that all those who contribute to this effort do so under this same pretense, or else kindly please do not engage.
I would like to keep the spirit of altruism at all costs.
Since I didn’t say so before I’d like to clearly state that anything I contribute here I release into the public domain for the benefit of this population of people and that all those who contribute to this effort do so under this same pretense, or else kindly please do not engage.
I would like to keep the spirit of altruism at all costs.
I have an episode of recruitment that happened to me about a month ago
I was at the bank-o-mat and doing the steps for obtaining some ( little) money
There were some cars & other vehicles in traffic: one car seemed to stop without reason. The vehicle behind ( those huge double decker open roof for tourist tour around the city, a city designed for carriage & horse, go figure ...)
started to honk the clacson repetitively, and I had to carry the final steps.
What's the story ?
I had the urge to leave and eventually I left the money there, leaving it hanging out of the mouth. Little money.
What happened ? IDK
You know clacsons are not allowed inside the city limits
I was at the bank-o-mat and doing the steps for obtaining some ( little) money
There were some cars & other vehicles in traffic: one car seemed to stop without reason. The vehicle behind ( those huge double decker open roof for tourist tour around the city, a city designed for carriage & horse, go figure ...)
started to honk the clacson repetitively, and I had to carry the final steps.
What's the story ?
I had the urge to leave and eventually I left the money there, leaving it hanging out of the mouth. Little money.
What happened ? IDK
You know clacsons are not allowed inside the city limits
I scored 39 out of 50 and apparently have 'significant autistic traits'.
Expected to be somewhere on the spectrum but not significantly!
35 is the average for people with Asperger's, or high-functioning autism. It is not unusual for people to have Asperger's without even knowing it; I didn't know until I was in my mid-forties. Frankly, as long as your traits don't bother you, there is no reason to care either.
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