It is back, using another ID:tzeng_albert selling the same items, still owe me some KG Caps, TORX176, AES / EBU Cable Black & RCA SOCKET
Let's keep calm, everybody. It really isn't fair to immediately accuse every new parts seller from China/HK of being a cheat, without proof.
I bought quite a few items form audiotek (168 and 968) - most delivered, some $ reclaimed through PayPal, some $ lost.
Tzeng albert doesn't have a single item anything like the stuff I bought from audiotek.
John
I bought quite a few items form audiotek (168 and 968) - most delivered, some $ reclaimed through PayPal, some $ lost.
Tzeng albert doesn't have a single item anything like the stuff I bought from audiotek.
John
Mods: please move this if not suitable here...let's not forget...
that purchasing items made in China is a reality. Many "high end" non-Chinese items are made in China, whether loudspeakers or amplification or sources.
Many items that many might think would never come from China do. I am not necessarily "promoting" purchasing from China, but the reality is that if you want some kind of consumer product, most often it is made in China.
The only way around this is to purchase items from companies that manufacture outside of China. And as consumers, we may not be able to find those items. That is why several manufacturers have gone bankrupt or closed their doors. Castle Acoustics from the UK is one such manufacturer. A shame because they had a great history and made cabinets for many other makers in the UK as well.
$200 for XXX from China or (perhaps) $500 for the same item made in Canada or the US (or similar amounts in the UK, and the rest of the world). The disposable mindset has taken the world over.
Now if we can purchase items made in XXXX (any place other than China), then we should. Particularly if a home market maker exists. Just a couple of thoughts.
that purchasing items made in China is a reality. Many "high end" non-Chinese items are made in China, whether loudspeakers or amplification or sources.
Many items that many might think would never come from China do. I am not necessarily "promoting" purchasing from China, but the reality is that if you want some kind of consumer product, most often it is made in China.
The only way around this is to purchase items from companies that manufacture outside of China. And as consumers, we may not be able to find those items. That is why several manufacturers have gone bankrupt or closed their doors. Castle Acoustics from the UK is one such manufacturer. A shame because they had a great history and made cabinets for many other makers in the UK as well.
$200 for XXX from China or (perhaps) $500 for the same item made in Canada or the US (or similar amounts in the UK, and the rest of the world). The disposable mindset has taken the world over.
Now if we can purchase items made in XXXX (any place other than China), then we should. Particularly if a home market maker exists. Just a couple of thoughts.
Re: Mods: please move this if not suitable here...let's not forget...
Personally i am quite happy with the competition Chinese goods create. It certainly helps keep local manufacturers on their tiptoes. May be bad for manufacturers but it's great for consumers. In less developed countries chinese goods are often better quality than locally made.
It was quite ironic that the South African Trade Unions, sworn enemies of cheap Chinese imports, were found to supply "made in China" teeshirts to members.
Nanook said:
Personally i am quite happy with the competition Chinese goods create. It certainly helps keep local manufacturers on their tiptoes. May be bad for manufacturers but it's great for consumers. In less developed countries chinese goods are often better quality than locally made.
It was quite ironic that the South African Trade Unions, sworn enemies of cheap Chinese imports, were found to supply "made in China" teeshirts to members.
audio research, sonic frontiers : they are local and don't use china stuff !
They also offers best than anything you can get for the same price in china, and the money you spend will return in your pocket: they pay income tax to your country and spend their money here. Also you can say bye bye to cheap counterfeit designs from the 60's, 80's that china now sells for high prices.
They also offers best than anything you can get for the same price in china, and the money you spend will return in your pocket: they pay income tax to your country and spend their money here. Also you can say bye bye to cheap counterfeit designs from the 60's, 80's that china now sells for high prices.
Gabdx...
I don't dispute "home market " manufacturers at all. And when you get to a certain performance level it does make a lot of sense to purchase items from these manufacturers. You're singing to the choir.
But when you look at the lion's share of "consumer electronics" they are made in China or Taiwan or where ever else the economies of scale, low labour and environmental standards exist.
Obviously , here in Canuckland, there is a good assortment of high-end manufacturers making great products, and some of them can be quite inexpensive and offer incredible value considering what goes into them. The same can be said of the U.S.of A, the EU, etc.
analog_sa: the same can be said about trade unions here in Canada. Only vigilant unions insist on "made in Canada" etc...I have only found one supplier of Union Made T-shirts with graphics in Canada (I know cause I did a lot of research). Not to say there are no others, just none I could find on the 'net.
This thread is really not intended to slam China generally, but rather to address specific problems some were or are having with Chinese makers of equipment purchased on eBay or elsewhere on the Internet.
Thus I will end my involvement in this thread.
Peace to all.
I don't dispute "home market " manufacturers at all. And when you get to a certain performance level it does make a lot of sense to purchase items from these manufacturers. You're singing to the choir.
But when you look at the lion's share of "consumer electronics" they are made in China or Taiwan or where ever else the economies of scale, low labour and environmental standards exist.
Obviously , here in Canuckland, there is a good assortment of high-end manufacturers making great products, and some of them can be quite inexpensive and offer incredible value considering what goes into them. The same can be said of the U.S.of A, the EU, etc.
analog_sa: the same can be said about trade unions here in Canada. Only vigilant unions insist on "made in Canada" etc...I have only found one supplier of Union Made T-shirts with graphics in Canada (I know cause I did a lot of research). Not to say there are no others, just none I could find on the 'net.
This thread is really not intended to slam China generally, but rather to address specific problems some were or are having with Chinese makers of equipment purchased on eBay or elsewhere on the Internet.
Thus I will end my involvement in this thread.
Peace to all.
Hi all,
well I read last posts and I will like to state my opinion.
I have made some transactions in the past with Audiotek-something and I am completely pleased with it, as well as with some other sellers located in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong etc. Maybe I was lucky, dont really know, but I always keep low budget in this kind of transactions.
However I must say that there are a lot of dark points in this kind of business, specially via ebay. For example, biddings from "candidate" sellers with usernames like: ***? is a fact and its main purpose is to raise the price. Another fact is that many people have lost money or got rubbish insteed of what they expected. There are not much things we can do except be more careful. Unfortunatelly the ebay has its drawbacks.
Also, not everything manufactured in China is "state of the art" and not everything is rubbish or fake. For those who don't know, Chinese industry, specially in the area of electronics, and I mean in any electronic part, single component or device, have the ability to manufacture and design both state of the art items as well as rubbish. Cost is the main parameter. Remember that many Audio High End components we often use are Chinese designs and/or creations. Most of European and American brands (at least in the fields of telecommunications and power electronics that happened to know personally) use Chinese industries for parts or ready made pcbs or even total construction of electronic devices. The design and requirements are mostly customers choise, so remember that all this extremelly huge production is based on cost, time and customer requirements. Also I have purchased PCBs from Chinese manufacturers in extremelly good prices with excellent quallity and I consider this as a plus.
After all I cannot see a reason to buy from European or US suppliers for parts that are produced in China or ex USSR, tubes for example. I have payed great amounts in the past to Parts Conn, Welborne and M. Percy, mostly for taxes and shipping cost,
in order to obtain parts from European or Chinese manufacturers.
Ok I leave in Europe and business with USA or Canada doesnt make sense to me at least not for everything.
IMO the whole thing needs more attention.
well I read last posts and I will like to state my opinion.
I have made some transactions in the past with Audiotek-something and I am completely pleased with it, as well as with some other sellers located in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong etc. Maybe I was lucky, dont really know, but I always keep low budget in this kind of transactions.
However I must say that there are a lot of dark points in this kind of business, specially via ebay. For example, biddings from "candidate" sellers with usernames like: ***? is a fact and its main purpose is to raise the price. Another fact is that many people have lost money or got rubbish insteed of what they expected. There are not much things we can do except be more careful. Unfortunatelly the ebay has its drawbacks. Also, not everything manufactured in China is "state of the art" and not everything is rubbish or fake. For those who don't know, Chinese industry, specially in the area of electronics, and I mean in any electronic part, single component or device, have the ability to manufacture and design both state of the art items as well as rubbish. Cost is the main parameter. Remember that many Audio High End components we often use are Chinese designs and/or creations. Most of European and American brands (at least in the fields of telecommunications and power electronics that happened to know personally) use Chinese industries for parts or ready made pcbs or even total construction of electronic devices. The design and requirements are mostly customers choise, so remember that all this extremelly huge production is based on cost, time and customer requirements. Also I have purchased PCBs from Chinese manufacturers in extremelly good prices with excellent quallity and I consider this as a plus.
After all I cannot see a reason to buy from European or US suppliers for parts that are produced in China or ex USSR, tubes for example. I have payed great amounts in the past to Parts Conn, Welborne and M. Percy, mostly for taxes and shipping cost,
in order to obtain parts from European or Chinese manufacturers.
Ok I leave in Europe and business with USA or Canada doesnt make sense to me
at least not for everything.IMO the whole thing needs more attention.
Spirtos-Spirtos said:
The bidder names you see (in the bidder lists) which look like x***q, etc are put there by eBay to protect the identity of the real bidders. If you are the seller you can see the real IDs of the bidders.
However, checking in the feedback area, one does see a lot of 'suspect'-looking names, I agree.
Like you, I've had generally good luck buying online.
Folks who think they are getting products without Chinese components because they pay $$$ for 'local' items are living in a fantasy world, IMO.
Cheers
John
dynoPort said:
Having had a good look at them (but not yet tried) they look genuine. The tinning on the tails scrapes off to reveal gleaming copper as you'd expect since silmic use pure copper. I don't know if it would be worth someone's while to make small sized caps look so realistic for relatively small profit?
Do Elna manufacture in Thailand, anyone know?
I'm not sure why I'm posting here again but ... ok, last one:
I've ordered from Audiotek and I've got items successfully. I've also been burned with a few of them.
Taking the price and the free shipping, comparing that to the prices of components here ... Well, I still saved money. It sucks though.
I'm still not sure what happened and no one here really does. What matters is the effect - audiotek is no more and its reputation is down the drain with people in this forum.
What I do hate is the crowd of people naming and shaming people they never bought from and were never burned from. People that don't have even one negative feedback, which at least would be worth checking.
There's a lot of activity on ebay that doesn't result in direct sales, there's a lot of things people do to automate the process and make their life easier. Although the potential of a group of ebay "farmers" has crossed my mind, I'm fairly certain the income from such a petty scam is insufficient for a large-scale operation. You know, if they wanted to make money, they'd sell gold to people playing WoW or some similar #&@*. You know - something that would make them money, compared to a limited DIY audio market.
Anyway, I did keep using suppliers from China and HK and I haven't been happier to shop online. And some of your alleged scammers have consistently and repeatedly delivered to me for free and have communicated actively and openly with me and have done everything to be helpful.
I don't want to know why this thread and its not-merged-twin-sister "Scam Alert" ended up in such a talk. I guess it's the same reason that drives people to go on posting pro comments for constructions that can send them in their graves in a flash of lightning and smoke.
I won't defend anyone on these threads anymore, I'll simply make well sure that I'll never look at them again. What started as a legitimate warning to fellow people went WAY out of hand.
I've ordered from Audiotek and I've got items successfully. I've also been burned with a few of them.
Taking the price and the free shipping, comparing that to the prices of components here ... Well, I still saved money. It sucks though.
I'm still not sure what happened and no one here really does. What matters is the effect - audiotek is no more and its reputation is down the drain with people in this forum.
What I do hate is the crowd of people naming and shaming people they never bought from and were never burned from. People that don't have even one negative feedback, which at least would be worth checking.
There's a lot of activity on ebay that doesn't result in direct sales, there's a lot of things people do to automate the process and make their life easier. Although the potential of a group of ebay "farmers" has crossed my mind, I'm fairly certain the income from such a petty scam is insufficient for a large-scale operation. You know, if they wanted to make money, they'd sell gold to people playing WoW or some similar #&@*. You know - something that would make them money, compared to a limited DIY audio market.
Anyway, I did keep using suppliers from China and HK and I haven't been happier to shop online. And some of your alleged scammers have consistently and repeatedly delivered to me for free and have communicated actively and openly with me and have done everything to be helpful.
I don't want to know why this thread and its not-merged-twin-sister "Scam Alert" ended up in such a talk. I guess it's the same reason that drives people to go on posting pro comments for constructions that can send them in their graves in a flash of lightning and smoke.
I won't defend anyone on these threads anymore, I'll simply make well sure that I'll never look at them again. What started as a legitimate warning to fellow people went WAY out of hand.
Anyone here really think its OK to use shill-bidding to force the price up on an item?
Or to tell the buyer "we don't have it in stock" when bids were taken already?
How about innaccurate and misleading listing information?
I have personal experience of these behaviors from some of the sellers I've listed, who all share the shill-bidding behaviors(just look at who's bidding). FYI, shill bidding is forbidden by eBay policy; therefore it is illicit and dishonest activity meant to deceive. How can you possibly trust a seller who does this?
I think to defend such behavior is to condone it.
Not wanting to argue, but how do you know this?
How do you know that I haven't been burned by some of these sellers? I have, in fact.
The only point of my posts is to give potential buyers a CLUE as to what's going on behind the scenes, so they don't get burned;
Otherwise the repeat-offenders will think can keep coming back under different names and continue cheating. I carefully research my findings before I post them.
If you don't want to hear about it then don't subscribe to the thread.
p.s. All of these seller names are at the same location in Taiwan(coincidence?).
Or to tell the buyer "we don't have it in stock" when bids were taken already?
How about innaccurate and misleading listing information?
I have personal experience of these behaviors from some of the sellers I've listed, who all share the shill-bidding behaviors(just look at who's bidding). FYI, shill bidding is forbidden by eBay policy; therefore it is illicit and dishonest activity meant to deceive. How can you possibly trust a seller who does this?
I think to defend such behavior is to condone it.
Not wanting to argue, but how do you know this?
How do you know that I haven't been burned by some of these sellers? I have, in fact.
(FYI, in many cases where a refund is obtained, you forfeit the ability to leave negative feedback)
The only point of my posts is to give potential buyers a CLUE as to what's going on behind the scenes, so they don't get burned;
Otherwise the repeat-offenders will think can keep coming back under different names and continue cheating. I carefully research my findings before I post them.
If you don't want to hear about it then don't subscribe to the thread.
p.s. All of these seller names are at the same location in Taiwan(coincidence?).
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