Ann's not as pretty as Sue.
"No, you seem to say. Ann's just got a longer nose, smaller eyes and she's much fatter. But you can't say she's not as pretty." I can.
Of course you can. By looking at these properties or even use measuring tools
to give quantitative results.The capacitor sound guys choose the prettier girl by the price tag at the girl's door, without even taking a look at her nose, her eyes or her weight.
Rundmaus
Nope caps are very different actually.
A gold foil cap would sound much better than a silver metalized film one. And yes inverting implementation of an opamp is more popular "en mass" because proper non inverting schematic requires a decoupling capacitor that is often pricer than a opamp itself.
Most SS owners would consider metallic tweeters or full range like Fostex or Klipsch "too bright" or fatiguing. But tube amp owner with foil caps, chokes and no global NFB can enjoy same speakers.
A gold foil cap would sound much better than a silver metalized film one. And yes inverting implementation of an opamp is more popular "en mass" because proper non inverting schematic requires a decoupling capacitor that is often pricer than a opamp itself.
Most SS owners would consider metallic tweeters or full range like Fostex or Klipsch "too bright" or fatiguing. But tube amp owner with foil caps, chokes and no global NFB can enjoy same speakers.
Based on what theoretical principle, given both caps are manufactured to the same electrical properties and tolerances?
Because gold looks nicer? Or because it is pricier? Why not platinum? What's wrong with copper or aluminum?
Rundmaus
EDIT: I missed your distinction between gold *foil* and silver *metalized*. If that's the point, you should say foil caps sound better than metalized ones. But even then: Which one will sound better if both use foils?
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Right foil caps do sound better. However Black Gate claims some of their electrolytics were as good as. Personally I found out that Mundorf's silver oil no good just waste of money Epcos PET performs the same. Duelund Coherent are great (I am using just copper ones but silver no gonna spoil them either) sounds like plain wire. Even Soviet K40-U9 is right stuff.
Silver wounded MCs or OTs vs copper not quit sure. I do believe they should be equal in performance as well.
WBT 4% silver leaded solder is real pleasure to use. Never used gold contained solder from WBT but it might improve rigidness of joints.
If it cost more and is made from a more expensive element they will come! If I tell you mine is hand wound by virgins you will pay more. If I say because I say it sounds different that must mean it is superior or inferior, that is the suggestion here. The rolling of capacitors and the inane suggestion that the more expensive brands sound better are great if you are the one selling them, more power to them in taking away money from foolish people who want to believe. There is no proof to any of these comments made about gold foil or anything else except I say it sounds better comments. I bet not one of those are based on measured results, just again willy nilly changing capacitors and seeing if you can hear a difference. This subject is just a joke, not one real scientific based study is sighted, just anecdotal things said by marketers and salesmen selling snake oil. This is no different than people randomly changing op amps and saying one is superior to another when each op amp is not optimized in a circuit, it is very poor science and not really good information in any regard.
Clears reproduction of timbers without extra coloration.
Film caps are on bright site, average electrolytic cap is a bit dull.
I would have thought it is obvious: if 'genuine' caps really do improve the sound in the clear way that some people say then surely a 'fake' cap will degrade the sound or leave it unchanged?hukkfinn said:
So there is no problem. Those of us who are not true believers don't buy those sort of caps anyway. Those who are true believers can detect (and thus avoid) a fake just by listening to it. Everyone is happy.
experience will tell
I have found that caps have different sounds. Depends on several issues like mentioned above(usage). Additionally, I have found that if you count the number of caps inline with the signal, you will find that the less you have the more the influence in the sound. I have only two caps in the signal path(excluding those in power supplies). One in the output of the CD/DVD player and on in the tube amps. Changing either of these has an affect on the final sound. If you have many more, well, changing one may not have a profound change in the sound. However, I have modded many car stereos all of which use cheap electo types for signal passing and changing them all to film types will improve the sound greatly. I have experimented with scores of caps in my system and some caps will sound similar, but from top to bottom on the cap scale you will find sound differences.
I have found that caps have different sounds. Depends on several issues like mentioned above(usage). Additionally, I have found that if you count the number of caps inline with the signal, you will find that the less you have the more the influence in the sound. I have only two caps in the signal path(excluding those in power supplies). One in the output of the CD/DVD player and on in the tube amps. Changing either of these has an affect on the final sound. If you have many more, well, changing one may not have a profound change in the sound. However, I have modded many car stereos all of which use cheap electo types for signal passing and changing them all to film types will improve the sound greatly. I have experimented with scores of caps in my system and some caps will sound similar, but from top to bottom on the cap scale you will find sound differences.
if i can make my amps sound fantastic with generic polys, then there is a chance it will sound better with branded caps i am open to this possibility....but why will i bother if the caps alone will cost the same as the whole amp?
Simple. Per example you don't need a second, third or fourth amp and you have the excess cash.
For anyone who has heard what boutique parts can do, there is no turning back. Figuring it out with an ohmmeter just doesn't work.
But who needs another cap thread? As always the deaf are more vocal, they have to compensate.
i have build an SIT amp with "computer" grade cheap electrolyte reservoir cap in a CRC power supply. than replace them with the famous Evox RIFA PEH169 cant hear any difference. than just replace the R with cheap hammond choke and get so muh better result.. so for me fine tune the design is much more important than the brand of the parts
I'll sell your a £101 (~$160) and I bet even you will hear a difference.
Can you tell which is more accurate?
Such arrogance, and the usual rebuff, we are either deaf or are systems are not up to discerning the differences that even todays level of science cannot measure.
No its just that some of are not as easily fooled, and understand that there is science behind any sound change not mysticism.
Again the belief that audiophile design is some sort of art form allowed by some divine being to ignore the rules of physics the rest of the world has to follow., nope its engineering,
indeed....i have seen those types that have cables and interconnects costing more than what their amps cost...
in another forum, i have seen one guy upgrading caps and spending about half the cost of his amp, and then later on after a month or two sold his amp at a big loss.....what a waste of time and money....i have seen this story repeated over and over again....guys replacing caps, praising their gears to high heavens only to sell them soon after, what gives?
if you can enjoy your music without breaking the bank, why not go for it?
in another forum, i have seen one guy upgrading caps and spending about half the cost of his amp, and then later on after a month or two sold his amp at a big loss.....what a waste of time and money....i have seen this story repeated over and over again....guys replacing caps, praising their gears to high heavens only to sell them soon after, what gives?
if you can enjoy your music without breaking the bank, why not go for it?
It's much closer to an art form than to engineering.
Consider for a minute how these parts come to be. It's either by rebadging existing industrial parts or by designing from scratch following a set of empirical rules. In both instances success is dependent on vigorous listening tests.
The audiophile parts market is by now quite mature and hoping that an ineffective product will sell just because of marketing and positive magazine reviews is naive. If you think otherwise start your own boutique parts manufacture, become rich and as a bonus enjoy the satisfaction of proving audiophiles as idiots en masse.
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