There is no such thing as too much dampening killing dynamics.
The idea of dampening is to absorb sound, you only want to hear the sound wave once, then have it go away.
There is no such thing as too big of a speaker per room.
This sounds completely made up, please provide evidence or proof to these physics-defying claims.
Your SPL are rendered inaccurate due to mixing sound waves.
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An interesting suggestion, but I'm not sure that I follow.
Yes, my speakers could do with a bigger room. About double the present size would be great, they could fill it easily and have room to breath. That said, I don't understand how smaller speakers in the same room could give me cleaner sound at the same or higher SPL.
Care to explain?
(We may spit this off into its own thread)
Simplified,
Wave launch, the bigger the baffle the more the interaction from proximity, proximity ratios vary based on type of speaker design , but the actual ratio's remain the same , once you have localized it for your particular design(Type).
When doing LEDE rooms , you will notice if too much you lose , the room becomes what i would term , "resistive", room gain losses come into play and affects playback , some may like that as they want a dead, controlled sound for mixing, the better rooms use speaker to room ratio size, very little absorbtion and more diffusiors. When your room becomes too resistive it will sound dead and over damped.
Match room to speakers and your system will respond to changes , get it wrong and one end fights the other. 25 yrs ago we had developed a subwoofer system for control rooms that would produce large DB's without suffering from room localization and proximity, the idea was to get equal room distribution , the "Bass Column" did just that, no one could localize the bass due to it's controlled radiating pattern , there were no localization and or proximity issues, the sound always appeared to be coming from the monitors..
Saved a lot of Tannoy's ........
Wave launch, the bigger the baffle the more the interaction from proximity, proximity ratios vary based on type of speaker design , but the actual ratio's remain the same , once you have localized it for your particular design(Type).
When doing LEDE rooms , you will notice if too much you lose , the room becomes what i would term , "resistive", room gain losses come into play and affects playback , some may like that as they want a dead, controlled sound for mixing, the better rooms use speaker to room ratio size, very little absorbtion and more diffusiors. When your room becomes too resistive it will sound dead and over damped.
Match room to speakers and your system will respond to changes , get it wrong and one end fights the other. 25 yrs ago we had developed a subwoofer system for control rooms that would produce large DB's without suffering from room localization and proximity, the idea was to get equal room distribution , the "Bass Column" did just that, no one could localize the bass due to it's controlled radiating pattern , there were no localization and or proximity issues, the sound always appeared to be coming from the monitors..
Saved a lot of Tannoy's ........
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Full of double-negatives.
Sounds like all you did was move the woofer away(to a proper location) and EQed below 60Hz? wow impressive.
Most engineers I have meet work in a sound controlled environment and don't abuse there ears by blowing woofers or high DB. Lots prefer the accuracy of headphones so they don't actually deal with the problems you claim.
So in reality, there are no speaker size to room limits, just bad acoustics.
Nobody does any serious recording in that type of augmented environment.
I can't think of an environment less conducive to stereo recording as one that intentionally sums a stereo signal to mono.
It must have been a nightmare to try and record in there.
No evidence here, just self proclaimed observations and name dropping.
Sounds like all you did was move the woofer away(to a proper location) and EQed below 60Hz? wow
impressive. Most engineers I have meet work in a sound controlled environment and don't abuse there ears by blowing woofers or high DB. Lots prefer the accuracy of headphones so they don't actually deal with the problems you claim.
So in reality, there are no speaker size to room limits, just bad acoustics.
Nobody does any serious recording in that type of augmented environment.
I can't think of an environment less conducive to stereo recording as one that intentionally sums a stereo signal to mono.
It must have been a nightmare to try and record in there.
No evidence here, just self proclaimed observations and name dropping.
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Simplified,
Wave launch, the bigger the baffle the more the interaction from proximity, proximity ratios vary based on type of speaker design , but the actual ratio's remain the same , once you have localized it for your particular design(Type).
When doing LEDE rooms , you will notice if too much you lose , the room becomes what i would term , "resistive", room gain losses come into play and affects playback , some may like that as they want a dead, controlled sound for mixing, the better rooms use speaker to room ratio size, very little absorbtion and more diffusiors. When your room becomes too resistive it will sound dead and over damped.
Match room to speakers and your system will respond to changes , get it wrong and one end fights the other. 25 yrs ago we had developed a subwoofer system for control rooms that would produce large DB's without suffering from room localization and proximity, the idea was to get equal room distribution , the "Bass Column" did just that, no one could localize the bass due to it's controlled radiating pattern , there were no localization and or proximity issues, the sound always appeared to be coming from the monitors..
Saved a lot of Tannoy's ........
I don't get it. In small rooms everything is too loud whether you have big speakers or small ones even if compensated in some fashion for LF room modes.
Specifically, the direct sound is too loud and the indirect sound also comes back too soon and too loud masking spacial and musical cues that might be in the recording.
Most folk compensate either playing stuff louder or backing off. They can never get it "right."
LEDE is better for obvious reasons but there is still the problem of too much correlated indirect sound. That can be improved by applying more diffusion and perhaps absorption treatment at live end. But the indirect sound is still arriving too soon.
Have to add speakers with delay and lots of HF rolloff.
Think about performance space; even a small one is much larger than most home listening spaces and the direct sound at listener is lower spl and more delayed and decorrelated compared to indirect than in a home.
Loud passages in the performance space sound loud not only due to increased spl's but because of the sufficiently delayed, correlated and decorrelated indirect sound. It's a psycho-acoustic effect.
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As "little as I know" it must be upsetting when I call your bluff.
It must be upsetting to have someone who "knows very little", pick apart your weak fallacies.
How dare I challenge someone who "was in the industry", do you really think this entitles you to be correct in all your views?
This is a forum for correlation and learning, not for chest pumping via affiliation.
From your last response, you will be deemed incorrect, as it appears you have no evidence to back your views.
Your response to my challenge is to "go away", that shows that you are the one who knows very little and are only interested in spouting your ill-conceived science.
I think there is a emoticon for that.
It must be upsetting to have someone who "knows very little", pick apart your weak fallacies.
How dare I challenge someone who "was in the industry", do you really think this entitles you to be correct in all your views?
This is a forum for correlation and learning, not for chest pumping via affiliation.
From your last response, you will be deemed incorrect, as it appears you have no evidence to back your views.
Your response to my challenge is to "go away", that shows that you are the one who knows very little and are only interested in spouting your ill-conceived science.
I think there is a emoticon for that.
G'day Globug,
That is how an anechoic chamber functions.
Are you suggesting that an anechoic chamber is a desirable listening space?
Cheers,
Alex
Sorry, I don't get it.
IME small speakers or large, the room has its limits. You just don't often run into the room limits with small speakers, that's all.FWIW, I use a combination of absorption and diffusion in my room as that has been the used in the best sounding rooms I've heard over the years. The diffusion is still a work in progress.
Maybe I'm asking; "How does the size of the speaker overload the room - at a given SPL?" Don't small speakers just run into trouble before the room does?
Agree ....
Wrong ... Db is db regardless of the size room ... 84 db in a small room is the same as 84 db in a large room ..
Again nothing to do with loudness ...
LEDE is not better for obvious reasons ...
Wow that bad huh ...
Sorry, I don't get it.
FWIW, I use a combination of absorption and diffusion in my room as that has been the used in the best sounding rooms I've heard over the years. The diffusion is still a work in progress.
Maybe I'm asking; "How does the size of the speaker overload the room - at a given SPL?" Don't small speakers just run into trouble before the room does?
Pano,
I'm not saying the room doesn't present limits, I'm saying the room becomes a greater issue when you have the wrong room to speaker ratio. Diffusion is the way to go IMO, but very rarely will you get away without some kind of absorbtion. LEDE is the worst...
Care to give us a clue as to what that might be?
I usually don't care for it. I like the speakers in the diffused end, absorption behind me.
Have you ever listened to anything in a good anechoic chamber, it's one of the strangest environments I have ever worked in and very, very unpleasant to listen to music in, assuming this is what you meant by critical listening. I guess psycho-acoustically speaking our brains expect reverberant space and it doesn't sound like listening outside either, hard to explain. Just wondering..
You make no effort to understand and are as close to rudeness as dammit is to cussin'. bye bye
You need to rely on the speakers to create artificial reverberations.
Visit an IMAX theater.
Only anechoic treatments will do when you need the sound quality to compare with the visual quality of an IMAX movie.
I take it you don't listen in a real room then..
Note that anechoic treatments may not be the same as an anechoic chamber, depends on the degree to which those treatments are used.
I guess I'm all wet but the last thing I would strive for would be an anechoic listening environment as I have said I have listened to music in such an environment, to each their own I guess.
I'm also not a fan of Imax, but I do like stereo sound..
If you don't use omni-directional radiators a surprising number of room issues just go away except in the bottom octaves.. (unfortunately)
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