Battery playing time & Subjective Eval
Hi, about the playing time using batteries.. have not yet tried the 24V/20A SLA on the Helders as I've been running the RedWine LFP pack to get the best comparison basis. the redWine seems to play at least 10 to 12 hours before needing recharge, maybe longer. I usually just recharge at the end of the day, when I don't keep it attached to the charger.
The playing time on the 24V/20A batteries might be similar but those do NOT fare well when deep discharged. For many, this in itself would be reason enough to get 8 good quality 20Amp LiFePo4 cells, wire em in series and outfit the whole with a good single /multiple charger. Not cheap, not cheap at all...probably in excess of $400 without a box....and probably worth every penny !!
RedWine charges $800 or more for theirs...it's supposed to be a 10amp unit...half of my SLA pack.... but it really is much better and proves the old saying about the PS making the most difference in the quality.
Sadly, many here will rule out trying it based on cost alone... I know, I know, I was once one of those who thought DC is the same from any battery... then when Vinnie lent me the LFP pack I was forced to admit it sounded waay better... my pocketbook still has a hole where that money once resided!
Now, about the sound while using the RedWine LFP supply to drive the Helder:
Well... it IS good... but not as good as any of the Virtues. It's bold and gutsy and powerful with good definition, but it is not yet special or magical like the Virtues. I suspect changing the input cap will help. Modding parts are on their way, will report more soon. Also, will compare against a stock Sure board at about the same time.
Hey, there IS another mod I'm VERY pleased with, on a Behringer DEQ2496, completely bypassed the entire output section and took the AKM 4393 DAC outputs directly through a 1:1 custom nickel transformer from EDCOR. I found that the rumors of it being very good were indeed correct. It's a fantastic sounding DAC...easily in a class that competes with the $2K and above goodies. Very analog-like, smooth detailed sound with enormous soundstage and really good PRAT. Made my daughter just jump up and start dancing! Yep, it's that good.
with built-in 24bit/ 96KHz capability, great EQ and spectrum analyzer with built-in pink noise, there's a lot to like about this box... and you can use it for LOTS of other things. But you wouldn't like the sound of its analog circuitry, it's built to drive 100ft cables... and it sounds like...well, it needs a good mod.
I may very well offer this as a standalone mod or as an option mod with my HolisticAudio.com speaker systems
OK, more later. Happy Trails!
Hi, about the playing time using batteries.. have not yet tried the 24V/20A SLA on the Helders as I've been running the RedWine LFP pack to get the best comparison basis. the redWine seems to play at least 10 to 12 hours before needing recharge, maybe longer. I usually just recharge at the end of the day, when I don't keep it attached to the charger.
The playing time on the 24V/20A batteries might be similar but those do NOT fare well when deep discharged. For many, this in itself would be reason enough to get 8 good quality 20Amp LiFePo4 cells, wire em in series and outfit the whole with a good single /multiple charger. Not cheap, not cheap at all...probably in excess of $400 without a box....and probably worth every penny !!
RedWine charges $800 or more for theirs...it's supposed to be a 10amp unit...half of my SLA pack.... but it really is much better and proves the old saying about the PS making the most difference in the quality.
Sadly, many here will rule out trying it based on cost alone... I know, I know, I was once one of those who thought DC is the same from any battery... then when Vinnie lent me the LFP pack I was forced to admit it sounded waay better... my pocketbook still has a hole where that money once resided!
Now, about the sound while using the RedWine LFP supply to drive the Helder:
Well... it IS good... but not as good as any of the Virtues. It's bold and gutsy and powerful with good definition, but it is not yet special or magical like the Virtues. I suspect changing the input cap will help. Modding parts are on their way, will report more soon. Also, will compare against a stock Sure board at about the same time.
Hey, there IS another mod I'm VERY pleased with, on a Behringer DEQ2496, completely bypassed the entire output section and took the AKM 4393 DAC outputs directly through a 1:1 custom nickel transformer from EDCOR. I found that the rumors of it being very good were indeed correct. It's a fantastic sounding DAC...easily in a class that competes with the $2K and above goodies. Very analog-like, smooth detailed sound with enormous soundstage and really good PRAT. Made my daughter just jump up and start dancing! Yep, it's that good.
with built-in 24bit/ 96KHz capability, great EQ and spectrum analyzer with built-in pink noise, there's a lot to like about this box... and you can use it for LOTS of other things. But you wouldn't like the sound of its analog circuitry, it's built to drive 100ft cables... and it sounds like...well, it needs a good mod.
I may very well offer this as a standalone mod or as an option mod with my HolisticAudio.com speaker systems
OK, more later. Happy Trails!
Stock Helder vs Stock Sure
Got the Sure boards in a few days ago, after some break-in I would say the stock version of the Sure sounds better than the stock Helder. No mods to either as of yet, although I have tried adding a Dayton foil 0.47uF cap in parallel with the Helder's input cap.
So far I prefer the sonic character of the Sure over the Helder, it's much closer to the Virtue amps which to me are clearly the class leaders. And the Sure has a nice feature which is switchable gain, the higher gain setting is very helpful when running the direct-out mod on the Behringer 2496.
These comments apply ONLY to the stock versions, cannot yet comment on hot-rodded versions. But the Sure run MUCH hotter than the Helder... Ideally, I'd like to be able to get the best of both worlds. So for now it's the Sure, but with worries about that heat.
I think I'll now try a couple of the HiFimeDIY boards to get a more complete picture.
More later.
Got the Sure boards in a few days ago, after some break-in I would say the stock version of the Sure sounds better than the stock Helder. No mods to either as of yet, although I have tried adding a Dayton foil 0.47uF cap in parallel with the Helder's input cap.
So far I prefer the sonic character of the Sure over the Helder, it's much closer to the Virtue amps which to me are clearly the class leaders. And the Sure has a nice feature which is switchable gain, the higher gain setting is very helpful when running the direct-out mod on the Behringer 2496.
These comments apply ONLY to the stock versions, cannot yet comment on hot-rodded versions. But the Sure run MUCH hotter than the Helder... Ideally, I'd like to be able to get the best of both worlds. So for now it's the Sure, but with worries about that heat.
I think I'll now try a couple of the HiFimeDIY boards to get a more complete picture.
More later.
I have looked at ariens ebay shop for a tk2050 board but without result.
Will these boards be available again and when?
Thank you
http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/arjenhelder_electronic/?_trksid=p4340.l2559
Will these boards be available again and when?
Thank you
http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/arjenhelder_electronic/?_trksid=p4340.l2559
It appears Arjen again updated the board to "The MKI STA508 +TC2000 MONO BLOCK". Although the auction title calls it "MKII TC2000+STA508 Tripath &ST 100W monoblock amplifier". It looks very similar to the MKII 2050 mono amp but the PCB is blue.
I'd appreciate Arjen's explanation and description for the change to the new board so soon after the MKII 2050 board was released.
I wrote Arjen and received a thoughtful reply. Figured I should share for everyone's benefit.
I wrote:
Arjen, what is the input voltage range of the new TC2000-STA508 board? What is the most robust VDC for the new board? Similarly, the Mk2 TK2050 was 24 VDC up to 30 VDC with 28 VDC as most robust for the board. Some confusion with the new board in eBay as you call it a MKI and MKII board in the same listing. Also, why did you make the decision to replace the 2050 with the newest model?
________________
Arjen replied:
I've changed to the STA508 IC because its more stable, in-fact the TK2050 is quite unstable, I had 20% failure in my last production batch! and I've been doing QC on electronics production for years! I know what to look for in a production process!
Also its ratings and performance is better, more power, newer generation mosfets are used, its basically the same thing as the TK2050, but then better.
And also the sound is decided by the TC2000, it makes the PWM signal for the STA508 to switch at.
The Voltage I recommend is still the same, 28V for stable operation over time. I know the STA is rated up to 40V, but i've used a 7805 as a voltage controller, at 40V it will get too hot, also, it will give just a little bit more power to go 10V higher.
I think most people don't need that power, as HIFI enthusiasts know, their speakers efficiency is most important!
So, this new board has gold coating, a better relay is used, STA508 to replace the STA508
I cannot get the ELNA caps anymore, so I have used Panasonic capacitors rated 42V 4700uF ( their ESR measured lower than the ELNA's )
And this board also incorporates Overtemp protection for the IC, in case it's Dice gets at 130Deg it will disconnect the speakers. ( I've tested this by heating up the IC with the solder iron, and it works fine, the TK2050 would already die at that temperature )
So overall, its become a more mature product, much more stable and higher in power.
Hope this gives you enough info!
________________
I wrote:
Arjen, what is the input voltage range of the new TC2000-STA508 board? What is the most robust VDC for the new board? Similarly, the Mk2 TK2050 was 24 VDC up to 30 VDC with 28 VDC as most robust for the board. Some confusion with the new board in eBay as you call it a MKI and MKII board in the same listing. Also, why did you make the decision to replace the 2050 with the newest model?
________________
Arjen replied:
I've changed to the STA508 IC because its more stable, in-fact the TK2050 is quite unstable, I had 20% failure in my last production batch! and I've been doing QC on electronics production for years! I know what to look for in a production process!
Also its ratings and performance is better, more power, newer generation mosfets are used, its basically the same thing as the TK2050, but then better.
And also the sound is decided by the TC2000, it makes the PWM signal for the STA508 to switch at.
The Voltage I recommend is still the same, 28V for stable operation over time. I know the STA is rated up to 40V, but i've used a 7805 as a voltage controller, at 40V it will get too hot, also, it will give just a little bit more power to go 10V higher.
I think most people don't need that power, as HIFI enthusiasts know, their speakers efficiency is most important!
So, this new board has gold coating, a better relay is used, STA508 to replace the STA508
I cannot get the ELNA caps anymore, so I have used Panasonic capacitors rated 42V 4700uF ( their ESR measured lower than the ELNA's )
And this board also incorporates Overtemp protection for the IC, in case it's Dice gets at 130Deg it will disconnect the speakers. ( I've tested this by heating up the IC with the solder iron, and it works fine, the TK2050 would already die at that temperature )
So overall, its become a more mature product, much more stable and higher in power.
Hope this gives you enough info!
________________
wallwart, this work?
am looking for simple PS solution for Arjen's 2050.
Will this work? 31V for HP printer?
GENUINE ORIGINAL HP 0950-4483 Adapter w/Power Cord ~NR~ | eBay
thanks,
am looking for simple PS solution for Arjen's 2050.
Will this work? 31V for HP printer?
GENUINE ORIGINAL HP 0950-4483 Adapter w/Power Cord ~NR~ | eBay
thanks,
That one would should work fine (with verification that 31VDC isn't too high for Arjen's board), and a great price. There are so many HP power bricks to choose from... Here is another inexpensive alternative with a little higher available current.
HP C7296-60024
That's the model I use for my HifimeDIY T2. No complaints here.
HP C7296-60024
That's the model I use for my HifimeDIY T2. No complaints here.
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hp power supply
That's not the one that I've used. Mine had an IEC adapter for the power cord, but that one definitely looks like it'll work. I can't say for sure, just because it's not one I've tried.
Arjen did recommend staying under 30 volts, but mine is also 31 volts and I've had no problems.
That's not the one that I've used. Mine had an IEC adapter for the power cord, but that one definitely looks like it'll work. I can't say for sure, just because it's not one I've tried.
Arjen did recommend staying under 30 volts, but mine is also 31 volts and I've had no problems.
31V should be OK, but if you later determine that you indeed want to go a little lower, then you can add a diode to the power input somewhere, dropping the voltage by about 0.5-1.5 Volts, depending on the diode you choose. This diode could also serve as polarity protection if appropriately placed.
Also, I have used various totally random 12V supplies with smaller Tripath amps (ta2021b, ta2020). All have worked exceedingly well. In general, Tripaths aren't that picky about power supplies. I have seen recommendations against LED-driver supplies and PC ATX supplies - too noisy.
STA 508 may be better
As I hear it, STA 508 is equal to the same chip that Apogee used to make before they sold to ST. When coupled with the TC2000 controller, it is said to actually sound better than the 2050, and my experience so far supports that opinion.
I believe that the better amps from Virtue use the Apogee = STA508 equivalent in parallel configuration... and their amps DO sound better than any of the 2050 configurations I have heard, even when the latter have been tweaked.
Also, about 3 weeks ago I got the hifimediy version that uses the STA508, and in stock form it does seem to sound better than the Sure or ArjenHelder (stock) units that use the 2050... they are all pretty close though... differences are small, but still perceptible IMO
Now to "voice" these various amps by changing out strategic components, maybe I can get them closer to the Virtue...
So my extrapolation from this is that all other things being equal, the use of the STA508 is probably beneficial to the SQ, and that Helder is wise to phase over to that chip instead of the 2050.
Also, I like Helder's mono-blocks approach, but really wish he would bring his prices down a little (or a lot) to compete more directly with hifimediy
Have heard from other sources that the paralleled output STA 510A is even better than 508, even when operated at only 30V... I'd like to get my hands on some of those also!
Well, not entirely a totally new board, STA508 and TK2050 are supposed to be nearly identical in function... and the 2000 controller is apparently the reason these all sound so good, so this is perhaps more akin to tube rolling than changing anything important in the circuit design...
As I hear it, STA 508 is equal to the same chip that Apogee used to make before they sold to ST. When coupled with the TC2000 controller, it is said to actually sound better than the 2050, and my experience so far supports that opinion.
I believe that the better amps from Virtue use the Apogee = STA508 equivalent in parallel configuration... and their amps DO sound better than any of the 2050 configurations I have heard, even when the latter have been tweaked.
Also, about 3 weeks ago I got the hifimediy version that uses the STA508, and in stock form it does seem to sound better than the Sure or ArjenHelder (stock) units that use the 2050... they are all pretty close though... differences are small, but still perceptible IMO
Now to "voice" these various amps by changing out strategic components, maybe I can get them closer to the Virtue...
So my extrapolation from this is that all other things being equal, the use of the STA508 is probably beneficial to the SQ, and that Helder is wise to phase over to that chip instead of the 2050.
Also, I like Helder's mono-blocks approach, but really wish he would bring his prices down a little (or a lot) to compete more directly with hifimediy
Have heard from other sources that the paralleled output STA 510A is even better than 508, even when operated at only 30V... I'd like to get my hands on some of those also!
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Juanito: I want to add pot and DPDT switch (2 RCA input selector) on the board as u. I have had some experience with 2024 Arjen boards with pot/switch and they work fine.
How was your experience with this board overall?, I plan to put it in a wooden case. Did u get your board working?
How was your experience with this board overall?, I plan to put it in a wooden case. Did u get your board working?
I tried the amp with out "chassis". So I hooked the loudspeaker cables strait to boards, and also I screwed spare RCA's out of the chassis, so there is no connection between them at all. RCA's are hanging out and PCB as well. Everything on top of a flat wood. Result: now one PCB makes a little pop to the speaker, but no sound at all. It moves the speaker out a little bit and it stays there, but noting else.
As source I use an ipod so I can control the volume.
I afraid I have to ship this PCB back.
STA508 with TC2000 is still a TK2050. The TK2050 designation specifies a chipset using controller (TC2000) and an output chip eg. STA508, 517B.
Cheers
Hifimediy T1 ALPS TK2050 2*80W STA508 tripath amplifier | eBay UK
Hello,
i'm about to finish my four-channel amp using arjens monos.
During final checking i discovered, the screw-holes are connected to the PCB ground. And now i'm confused if this leads to a major groundloop or not. Protective earth of the ac-jack is connected to each of the four meanwell smps, which are screwed to the case.
Can anyone tell me if..
..it is safe to wire it together and start the amp, because -V of the SMPS is connected to the enclosure via PCB.
..there will be any groundloops?
Thanks,
Martin
i'm about to finish my four-channel amp using arjens monos.
During final checking i discovered, the screw-holes are connected to the PCB ground. And now i'm confused if this leads to a major groundloop or not. Protective earth of the ac-jack is connected to each of the four meanwell smps, which are screwed to the case.
Can anyone tell me if..
..it is safe to wire it together and start the amp, because -V of the SMPS is connected to the enclosure via PCB.
..there will be any groundloops?
Thanks,
Martin
Hi,
now i really need your help. I insulated all of the boards wired everything together and switched it on.
First thing to notice, two of the four boards won't start, there is no relay clicking or what ever. But i know that the boards are ok, because i tested all of them before installing including the smps they are connected to. The LED for 5V and 24V are on, but the relay stays quiet.
Second problem, hum. Its a 50Hz hum. The two other boards which work, are not connected to the chassis. The hum is quite noticeable especially with tweeter connected. The hum is always there, even without any RCA-cables connected.
I attached some pictures. The third one shows the two not working boards, the third and fourth are pictures from the humming ones.
I hope anyone can help.
Thanks Martin
now i really need your help. I insulated all of the boards wired everything together and switched it on.
First thing to notice, two of the four boards won't start, there is no relay clicking or what ever. But i know that the boards are ok, because i tested all of them before installing including the smps they are connected to. The LED for 5V and 24V are on, but the relay stays quiet.
Second problem, hum. Its a 50Hz hum. The two other boards which work, are not connected to the chassis. The hum is quite noticeable especially with tweeter connected. The hum is always there, even without any RCA-cables connected.
I attached some pictures. The third one shows the two not working boards, the third and fourth are pictures from the humming ones.
I hope anyone can help.
Thanks Martin
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