It's a little late but Scottmoose doesnt take PMs...
He said something about not progressing beyond Iron maiden and the odd bit of Metallica.
Try some Dream Theater. Seriously. Make sure you listen carefully to at least a few songs.
In a nutshell: Progressive metal, very skilled musicians, quite well recorded. Pink Floyd meets Metallica with some of the structures and storytelling of Jeff Wayne.
I'm a Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd fan, Dream Theater blew me away.
Listen at a time when you can give it some volume. Most of it is not a lot heavier but there's some moments when it becomes serious bash your teeth in metal.
(Hey, I'm still less off-topic than those guys working on the antenna!)
He said something about not progressing beyond Iron maiden and the odd bit of Metallica.
Try some Dream Theater. Seriously. Make sure you listen carefully to at least a few songs.
In a nutshell: Progressive metal, very skilled musicians, quite well recorded. Pink Floyd meets Metallica with some of the structures and storytelling of Jeff Wayne.
I'm a Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd fan, Dream Theater blew me away.
Listen at a time when you can give it some volume. Most of it is not a lot heavier but there's some moments when it becomes serious bash your teeth in metal.
(Hey, I'm still less off-topic than those guys working on the antenna!)
I could also recommend Saturnus and their Martyre album. It's doom metal, so it's dark melodic metal that is sometimes sung sometimes growled. For a taste visit:
www.myspace.com/saturnus
www.myspace.com/saturnus
I never liked, how my Fostex FE207E sounded with Metal or Punkrock.
I built my new Pair with the Eminence Woofers right for the New Years Party in my appartment and i didn't know how they would do their job with guitars....did't expect much.
What a surprise...without the lower frequenzies the 207 rock like hell!
I built my new Pair with the Eminence Woofers right for the New Years Party in my appartment and i didn't know how they would do their job with guitars....did't expect much.
What a surprise...without the lower frequenzies the 207 rock like hell!
On a related 'note' , if you get a chance to audition an Altec bi-flex speaker (15" woofer with a ~'FR' diaphragm segment centrally suspended), especially the Santana with its ferro-fluid damped paper cone super tweeter, try your R&R, HM, etc.. I was never impressed with its orchestra, etc., performance, but small bands of all genres did quite well, at least with the type music that was played on the early '80s late night cable TV music shows such as 'Head Banger's Ball'?, and while I never had the opportunity to A/B one with any of my 'FR'/woofer combos I was impressed enough that had the components not been far more expensive I would have used them exclusively when the app allowed it. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3417/3201890326_eaeec3fa98_o.jpg
GM
, if you get a chance to audition an Altec bi-flex speaker (15" woofer with a ~'FR' diaphragm segment centrally suspended), especially the Santana with its ferro-fluid damped paper cone super tweeter, try your R&R, HM, etc.. I was never impressed with its orchestra, etc., performance, but small bands of all genres did quite well, at least with the type music that was played on the early '80s late night cable TV music shows such as 'Head Banger's Ball'?, and while I never had the opportunity to A/B one with any of my 'FR'/woofer combos I was impressed enough that had the components not been far more expensive I would have used them exclusively when the app allowed it. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3417/3201890326_eaeec3fa98_o.jpgGM
Not surprising considering the M series is in a different league from 'FR' or 'FR'/woofer combos.
The 14's WE 32 horn was optimized for use with the 15" WE/Jensen KS12004, which both the early JBL/Altec 15" are very similar to through the BW in question, so combined with its more rolled off highs and differing power response compared to the 15's CD horn, so little wonder it left something to be desired in comparison.
GM
The 14's WE 32 horn was optimized for use with the 15" WE/Jensen KS12004, which both the early JBL/Altec 15" are very similar to through the BW in question, so combined with its more rolled off highs and differing power response compared to the 15's CD horn, so little wonder it left something to be desired in comparison.
GM
Blood of the Viking's with the cross of St George waving? 
well I just got finished playing with a new gizmo. It's a simple little converter that I ordered form HKong that changes the digital stream from a usb port to toslink. It sounds pretty good. Definitely better then the analog feed. I have a digital amp so the idea is keep the signal digital though out the entire food chain. I'm using the digital panny for the FR's and tweeters and a vintage SS for the bottom end.
I played a much wider variety of music then is normal including psychobilly, hillbilly, metal, instrumental jazz and quite few vocal pieces.
For metal I played mostly AC/DC and Metallica mostly just cause they are two of the very few metal bands that bother to take the time to make sure they have some well engineered recordings available.
All of the metal I threw t them worked pretty darn good. Metallica's And Justice For All.flac sounded wicked.
While not metal Hank Williams III Smoke and Wine sounded so ******* excellent that I listened to it twice back to back.
No question at all, the CSS FR125's can, and do, pound the metal at extreme volume levels if the bottom end is taken over by a woofer.
While still shy of kicking your teeth in I believe that it is now time for me to build a monster sub woofer. I'm thinking of taking a plastic 45 gal drum and attaching 2 15's and venting it up into my room. I think I saw something like that is Speakerbuilder magazine a few years back.
Perhaps I was wrong in suggesting that your average system can't do metal. My system is very modest and there is still room for experimenting. For instance my amp supports bi-amping utilizing the surround channels so maybe I'll play with having the FR's on the fronts and the tweeters on the surrounds with the woofers left on the SS amp. Not really a FR system anymore in the traditional manner but it is still none the less a FR based system.
I played a much wider variety of music then is normal including psychobilly, hillbilly, metal, instrumental jazz and quite few vocal pieces.
For metal I played mostly AC/DC and Metallica mostly just cause they are two of the very few metal bands that bother to take the time to make sure they have some well engineered recordings available.
All of the metal I threw t them worked pretty darn good. Metallica's And Justice For All.flac sounded wicked.
While not metal Hank Williams III Smoke and Wine sounded so ******* excellent that I listened to it twice back to back.
No question at all, the CSS FR125's can, and do, pound the metal at extreme volume levels if the bottom end is taken over by a woofer.
While still shy of kicking your teeth in I believe that it is now time for me to build a monster sub woofer. I'm thinking of taking a plastic 45 gal drum and attaching 2 15's and venting it up into my room. I think I saw something like that is Speakerbuilder magazine a few years back.
Perhaps I was wrong in suggesting that your average system can't do metal. My system is very modest and there is still room for experimenting. For instance my amp supports bi-amping utilizing the surround channels so maybe I'll play with having the FR's on the fronts and the tweeters on the surrounds with the woofers left on the SS amp. Not really a FR system anymore in the traditional manner but it is still none the less a FR based system.
The author used a used insecticide drum - yuck - Around my area you can get these drums cheap, that have had only contained food stuff prior.
I personally don't see ( or hear ) any need for sub 20Hz reproduction, but hey...
The similar barrels I have have a certain degree of flexibility, so I wondered about that problem.
I personally don't see ( or hear ) any need for sub 20Hz reproduction, but hey...
The similar barrels I have have a certain degree of flexibility, so I wondered about that problem.
chuyler1 said:
I quite enjoyed Systematic Chaos. Though I've been told by a fan it isn't one of their best.
http://www.dreamtheater.net/disco_dreamtheater.php?s=systematic_chaos
Interestingly they have occasionally covered an entire album as a special treat for the audience after some of their concerts. Including DSOTM and Master of Puppets. I'd love to hear them do a version of Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds.
First reaction would be 'incompatable requirements.'
FR drivers & metal is an uneasy mix generally -I don't think anyone would pretend it's ideal. FR drivers and Nait's = well... it's not a combination that automatically comes to mind, that's for sure.
FWIW, of the drivers you mention, probably the 207 in a BR standmount. I assume by your 'BR tuning for bass attack, not horn designs' remark, you are planning on tuning for a slightly higher Fb?
FR drivers & metal is an uneasy mix generally -I don't think anyone would pretend it's ideal. FR drivers and Nait's = well... it's not a combination that automatically comes to mind, that's for sure.
FWIW, of the drivers you mention, probably the 207 in a BR standmount. I assume by your 'BR tuning for bass attack, not horn designs' remark, you are planning on tuning for a slightly higher Fb?
Re heavy metal and FR:
Hey, I resemble that remark!
I spent almost 20 years listening to HM and rock on a set of Altec 420A BiFlex drivers and 423 tweeters, in home-made cabinets. I agree with GM, they weren't detailed enough for complex orchestral music, but they were excellent for rock / HM. They only needed 40 watts or so for truly painful levels, and easily filled small halls for parties.
Sadly, the 7 cu ft cabinets had to go when we moved house. I kept the drivers and I've been trying to figure out how to use them in a more spouse friendly form factor. In a classic ported alignment they go flat to 20 Hz but need almost 1500 litres (over 15 cu ft). I might try them in an OB configuration with subs.
Re Dream Theater:
Train Of Thought, Octavarium, Systematic Chaos are my favourites.
Re 44 gal plastic drums as enclosures:
I've been looking at them myself. They need MDF or ply discs sandwiched each side of the base to stop it flexing so much, then a thick baffle disc screwed into the top, plus long braces between the top and bottom discs to further reduce the flex.
Ideally, the container should be rigid enough not to need bracing. I've found two candidates. First, weed sprayers: 5 to 10 litre plastic bottles with a pressure pump in the top and a spray wand. They're rigid enough and well enough damped to make good enclosures for small drivers. Second, home brew vats, designed for brewing beer at home. They usually come in 10 to 25 litre sizes. Very thick plastic, designed to handle high pressure. I have enough of both types to build a sub-sat set. The plastic is semi-transparent so I might put lights inside them too, if I can do it tastefully...
Hey, I resemble that remark!
I spent almost 20 years listening to HM and rock on a set of Altec 420A BiFlex drivers and 423 tweeters, in home-made cabinets. I agree with GM, they weren't detailed enough for complex orchestral music, but they were excellent for rock / HM. They only needed 40 watts or so for truly painful levels, and easily filled small halls for parties.
Sadly, the 7 cu ft cabinets had to go when we moved house. I kept the drivers and I've been trying to figure out how to use them in a more spouse friendly form factor. In a classic ported alignment they go flat to 20 Hz but need almost 1500 litres (over 15 cu ft). I might try them in an OB configuration with subs.
Re Dream Theater:
Train Of Thought, Octavarium, Systematic Chaos are my favourites.
Re 44 gal plastic drums as enclosures:
I've been looking at them myself. They need MDF or ply discs sandwiched each side of the base to stop it flexing so much, then a thick baffle disc screwed into the top, plus long braces between the top and bottom discs to further reduce the flex.
Ideally, the container should be rigid enough not to need bracing. I've found two candidates. First, weed sprayers: 5 to 10 litre plastic bottles with a pressure pump in the top and a spray wand. They're rigid enough and well enough damped to make good enclosures for small drivers. Second, home brew vats, designed for brewing beer at home. They usually come in 10 to 25 litre sizes. Very thick plastic, designed to handle high pressure. I have enough of both types to build a sub-sat set. The plastic is semi-transparent so I might put lights inside them too, if I can do it tastefully...
Scottmoose said:First reaction would be 'incompatable requirements.'
FR drivers & metal is an uneasy mix generally -I don't think anyone would pretend it's ideal. FR drivers and Nait's = well... it's not a combination that automatically comes to mind, that's for sure.
FWIW, of the drivers you mention, probably the 207 in a BR standmount. I assume by your 'BR tuning for bass attack, not horn designs' remark, you are planning on tuning for a slightly higher Fb?
Yes I know that fullranges are mostly used with lighter music. My listening SPL is quite low, room is small (4x4,5 m) so I think it might be worth to try.
I meant Nait1/2 which are low powered and "mellow" sounding solid states. 13 W/ch @ 8 ohm. They are not one of those harsh sounding heavy beasts with 200W power. One guy I know has Cain&Cain Abbys and Nait2. Works fine, though he listens softer music.
Fullranges have very limited excursion so I think Fb should be quite high very most of music's bass is. To me, most important bass region is 50-250 Hz, not 15 -50 Hz.
30 liters with 45 Hz Fb.- Status
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