Never understood the whole cheap Grado thing ... and I've owned my share. The Stanton is/was far more neutral than any Grado Fxx++ ever was. They always tended to annoy in the long run. In its day, everyone owned a Grado as a back up. I owned Stantons and Shures as my backups. The last grado i bought was the first of the wood-bodies (Sonata, IIRC). It was kinda like a SET amp driving the wrong speaker - both gooey and gritty at the same time.
Never understood the whole cheap Grado thing ... and I've owned my share. The Stanton is/was far more neutral than any Grado Fxx++ ever was. They always tended to annoy in the long run. In its day, everyone owned a Grado as a back up. I owned Stantons and Shures as my backups. The last grado i bought was the first of the wood-bodies (Sonata, IIRC). It was kinda like a SET amp driving the wrong speaker - both gooey and gritty at the same time.
Funny
and I thought I was the only one who thought that. The whole Grado thing leaves me puzzled, and I really, really tried to like them. The Platinum wasn't terrible but it didn't thrill me the way the DL-103 does even with its sometimes rather obvious shortcomings. The sound of a Grado to me is just uninvolving, it doesn't make me want to listen further into the music. (It mostly made me want to shut off the stereo or listen to a CD..
) Perhaps one of the higher end low output statement series would change my mind. I will say that Grados seem to track pretty well IMLE.I'll further add it left me wondering: "Is that all there is??? Where is that vaunted analog magic?"
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thanks for the tip on Jico. Am playing the Shure M97 right now on a goodwill $.50 Brahms Piano Concerto, Rubinstein, LP that sounds as if it has never been played. !!!! I hope my diamond is good, I lost the toy microscope in the flood a few years ago. Never had a complaint about the Grado except the diamond was crummy, but my KLH23 speakers didn't have the definition these SP2XT's do. Right now, other than pops and clicks my brain suppresses because I have been listening to records since 1953, the turntable sounds better than the CD player on material where I have both. I've got to change the feedback resistors on the aux input of the disco mixer to get more gain.Your Shure M97 probably qualifies as near vintage since it is pushing 30yrs of age..
FWIW all the rubber bits that degrade in a typical MM type are in the stylus assembly and replacing the stylus with a suitable replacement should restore full performance. So I would check with Jico and see if they have styli for your M97 rather than buying potentially shoddy current cartridge production. (Check VE for details on Shure cartridge quality control issues.)
The ST70 with new JJ 6CA7's had wonderful highs and lows, and the gain was way higher than the CS800s, but the piano was honky in the midrange. Maybe there is a reason to install the 12AX7 board, the ST70 does quote 1% H. D.
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Jo, stick some 6922's or better yet 7119's into the ST 70, or even nearer to my heart, the Chinese 12AT7's from Nu Sensor.
I have to go along with the "having given up on Grado" crowd. Always lush, always limited in depth. Always colored in the mid range. Have had a Sumiko (Koetsu? cannot remember which) Blue Point Oyster in my Yamaha PX 3 for years now and other than occasional feathery thoughts of Decca's, I am very happy.
Bud
I have to go along with the "having given up on Grado" crowd. Always lush, always limited in depth. Always colored in the mid range. Have had a Sumiko (Koetsu? cannot remember which) Blue Point Oyster in my Yamaha PX 3 for years now and other than occasional feathery thoughts of Decca's, I am very happy.
Bud
Hi Bud,
I assume you mean the Sumiko Blue Point which is a high output moving coil type. I had one of these ages ago and quite liked it. I've toyed from time to time with the idea of getting a Blue Point Special Evo III, but these days having discovered the joys of low output moving coils am less inclined to do so.. Oyster IIRC is a moving magnet type and is the entry point to the Sumiko line, and IMO not a bad starting point.
I'd love a Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation which would even be a good match to my arm, but it's just a bit (way) beyond my budget.. Maybe a used one someday...
That was a head-scratcher for me. Very popular, everyone I know liked it, but I just couldn't live with it and ended up tossing it when I finally bit the bullet and ponied up for a Troika. It's like Bruce Springsteen or Diana Krall- I'm sure there's something there, I just can't for the life of me understand what.
Lots of negative opinions (hate) regarding the BPS on other forums. I've never heard one myself.
Add Norah to that list.
jeff
I think it has a long to do with the arm it is installed on, and I remember it took a long time to break in. My BP (not the special) was purchased slightly used from someone who found it not to their liking. Mine was installed on an Audiocraft uni-pivot arm. It was not my all time favorite MC, but I remember it seemed decent compared to what I had been previously using. I vaguely recollect that it sounded much better loaded into something like 1K - 2K than it did into 47K.
if any of you gentlemen want to have an old cartridge rebuild/retipped you could do a lot worse than Expert stylus company in the UK. They service everything from Edison phonographs to present stuff.
And no, I'm not an employee Just very happy with a Troika the fixed for me (that's about 25 years old so kind of vintage)
Cheers
Rolf
And no, I'm not an employee
Just very happy with a Troika the fixed for me (that's about 25 years old so kind of vintage)Cheers
Rolf
if any of you gentlemen want to have an old cartridge rebuild/retipped you could do a lot worse than Expert stylus company in the UK. They service everything from Edison phonographs to present stuff.
And no, I'm not an employee
Cheers
Rolf
Heard good things about Expert. Here in New England/NY area Soundsmith is another highly regarded option.
Are these retippers just gluing the diamond or are they press fitting them thru the rod? I would be suspect of a glue job done at this cirtical point from the added mass and flexing of glue that might result. I seen one done this way but didn,t pay attention who was doing this.
Regards
David
Regards
David
I read most of this thread just to see what you meant by "vintage". To me "vintage" does not include most cartridges developed during the 70's which I would put into another era ... one that I might describe as the beginning of the modern cartridge era that we're still in.
A vintage cartridge to me would be those developed during the high mass arm era, from the late 60's and earlier. After all, they've been making cartridges for about 80 years.
Anyway, having said that, I am quite familiar the 70's variants. My favourites of the time were the ADC XLM Mk II, The Fidelity Research FR1 Mk II, and I'll always have a soft spot for the Denon DL-103 (I still own one, actually).
At one time I would guess I owned over a dozen "high-end" cartridges and was able to compare them to each other at will, although later I came to my senses and generally only had one or two around at the same time.
Others that were interesting but for whatever reason didn't quite make my top grade were the ADC ZLM, the ADC XLM Mks III and I, The AKG P8E, The Mission MC, The Denons DL-160 and -110, The Dynavector 10x (the original one, no number after "x"), the Grace F9e, the Empire, and probably a few others whose names escape me now.
Of course there were also the usual Grados and the Shure V15 marks II and III, which to my ears all sounded broadly similar in tone and a bit too dark for my liking. The Shures really didn't get me to pay attention until the mk IV series, and even then the only one I would consider "really good" was the Mk V.
There were some good Audio-Technicas in there as well, in particular the Signets, but due to A-T's "Nokia-like" propensity for alphanumeric names and a huge catalog, the actual model numbers I can't really remember anymore. I also seem to recall a few good sounding B&O systems, but since the cartridge and the 4000/4002/4004 were pretty much a system to themselves, it's hard to say exactly where one starts and the other ends, and I preferred other tables.
A vintage cartridge to me would be those developed during the high mass arm era, from the late 60's and earlier. After all, they've been making cartridges for about 80 years.
Anyway, having said that, I am quite familiar the 70's variants. My favourites of the time were the ADC XLM Mk II, The Fidelity Research FR1 Mk II, and I'll always have a soft spot for the Denon DL-103 (I still own one, actually).
At one time I would guess I owned over a dozen "high-end" cartridges and was able to compare them to each other at will, although later I came to my senses and generally only had one or two around at the same time.
Others that were interesting but for whatever reason didn't quite make my top grade were the ADC ZLM, the ADC XLM Mks III and I, The AKG P8E, The Mission MC, The Denons DL-160 and -110, The Dynavector 10x (the original one, no number after "x"), the Grace F9e, the Empire, and probably a few others whose names escape me now.
Of course there were also the usual Grados and the Shure V15 marks II and III, which to my ears all sounded broadly similar in tone and a bit too dark for my liking. The Shures really didn't get me to pay attention until the mk IV series, and even then the only one I would consider "really good" was the Mk V.
There were some good Audio-Technicas in there as well, in particular the Signets, but due to A-T's "Nokia-like" propensity for alphanumeric names and a huge catalog, the actual model numbers I can't really remember anymore. I also seem to recall a few good sounding B&O systems, but since the cartridge and the 4000/4002/4004 were pretty much a system to themselves, it's hard to say exactly where one starts and the other ends, and I preferred other tables.
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I'm currently using an ADC vlm II on my frankentable (bits of empire, townshend and rega). It replaced a Pickering XV-15 that i used to love, when it had an original stereohedron stylus, but now is ho-hum in a way i can't put my finger on. I still have a modified BPS on my other TT. _My_ BPS definitely falls into the extremely fiddly camp.
I think the vlm is easiest to live with out of all the cartridges i've had or got.
I think the vlm is easiest to live with out of all the cartridges i've had or got.
Actually when I started the thread I was really thinking of very early stereo cartridges like the Stanton/Pickering Fluxvalves, Shure M3D, M7D, M8D, Decca London, Tannoy Vari-twin, Orton SPU family and the Denon DL-103. All of these models date to prior to 1965. The DL-103 is the youngest at 49yrs of the ones I originally referenced.
I realized though that probably anything over 30yrs old could be considered vintage, although that was not what I was thinking of.
I have a Stanton 380 Fluxvalve, modern Zu version of the Denon DL-103 and a Stanton 681EE which dates from the very late 1960s. I also at one time (15yrs or so ago) owned an SPU G/T and a Decca London both of which I tossed not recognizing their value.
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