BTW, I cleaned up your language a bit. Please don't make me do that again.
I am really surprised with overall response in this thread. People dismiss a product, even before giving it a try.
And who are those?
As usually, Mr. Magura. He is 28, so there is a lot to learn in his life yet
I didn't listen to this one, but I tried something similar. It was made of 1.5" pipes, 6' high and spaced pretty close (I believe 4 or 6 of them altogether). The improvement in sound was very similar to what you describe. An interesting thing was that when replicas were made out of PVC, the effect was not the same. The originals were made of some plastic and the whole thing was pretty expensive, $600 or more.
Now, some of you might laugh, but I'm very curious about photographs in a freezer too, and within few days I will conduct an experiment. I finally managed to find a proper picture
http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/whatamess.html
And who are those?
As usually, Mr. Magura. He is 28, so there is a lot to learn in his life yet
I didn't listen to this one, but I tried something similar. It was made of 1.5" pipes, 6' high and spaced pretty close (I believe 4 or 6 of them altogether). The improvement in sound was very similar to what you describe. An interesting thing was that when replicas were made out of PVC, the effect was not the same. The originals were made of some plastic and the whole thing was pretty expensive, $600 or more.
Now, some of you might laugh, but I'm very curious about photographs in a freezer too, and within few days I will conduct an experiment. I finally managed to find a proper picture
http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/whatamess.html
I happen to have stumbled on a similar product....with great claims, and zip effect.
Naturally, the ideal situation is that the listening room is empty, the dampening adjusted, and the reflections of the walls are corrected....problem is that you have to turn on your stereo and leave the room to get the right sound.
An aquaintance of mine from belgium have designed acoustics for a number of concert halls in europe, he have been talking a lot about dampening and reflection...and a whole lot of calculations and so forth, but I have never heard him speaking of the Shakti's. Neither have I seen shakti's in any of his designs.
I find that somewhat strange if the shaktis work so well and is such a great improvement of the sound.
Magura
Naturally, the ideal situation is that the listening room is empty, the dampening adjusted, and the reflections of the walls are corrected....problem is that you have to turn on your stereo and leave the room to get the right sound.
An aquaintance of mine from belgium have designed acoustics for a number of concert halls in europe, he have been talking a lot about dampening and reflection...and a whole lot of calculations and so forth, but I have never heard him speaking of the Shakti's. Neither have I seen shakti's in any of his designs.
I find that somewhat strange if the shaktis work so well and is such a great improvement of the sound.
Magura
But you should also know that: "Everything is possible....to do the impossible just takes a little while longer."
In that case maybe more experience with critical listening. When I was your age, I didn't hear what I hear now either. It took me a lot of practice (and good will) to start noticing small nuances in recorded sound.
PS: I put two pictures in a freezer, and did some brief comparisons. You might laugh again, but I'm almost certain that there is slight improvement, basically more clarity to the sound and better separation. I will experiment some more, before coming to any conclusion though in that matter..
In that case maybe more experience with critical listening. When I was your age, I didn't hear what I hear now either. It took me a lot of practice (and good will) to start noticing small nuances in recorded sound.
PS: I put two pictures in a freezer, and did some brief comparisons. You might laugh again, but I'm almost certain that there is slight improvement, basically more clarity to the sound and better separation.
I will experiment some more, before coming to any conclusion though in that matter..
First of all, I can't believe that Peter Daniel, or anybody else for that matter, can be serious about the freezer photos.
Secondly, this part of a paragraph from their website:
"The Hallograph contours the frequency, amplitude and time coefficients of the first reflections you hear, which produces a stunning increase in realism."
The first reflection you hear comes from the floor and the second from the side walls, or vise-versa depending on your situation. The device in question can in no way effect these particular reflections; ergo, they are making this up.
Secondly, this part of a paragraph from their website:
"The Hallograph contours the frequency, amplitude and time coefficients of the first reflections you hear, which produces a stunning increase in realism."
The first reflection you hear comes from the floor and the second from the side walls, or vise-versa depending on your situation. The device in question can in no way effect these particular reflections; ergo, they are making this up.
Bill Fitzpatrick said:
I don't have to be that serious to just give it a try. I don't see a reason why photographs wouldn't work, so the easiest way for me to learn is simply try it out.
It just takes two pictures, two plastic bags and a freezer, most people have those items. What they don't have is enough imagination, good will, curiosity and desire to experiment.
I have some friends, who are into alternative medicine, and they can easily sense through the photograph if the person is alive or not. So there might be more to the photographs than we actually think.
Hi,
Hmmm...I have one of those in my pants....I mean the zipper....
Seriously though....
Why get all upset about something you've never tried?
Does Peter know what he thinks he knows by just sitting in his chair?
Don't think so....
So if we go through the logic:
Would anyone care to market a product_ this does cost money _if no one could hear a difference?
Maybe but not for long, quite likely not long enough to break even.
Personally I try to never laugh at something or someone I don't understand unless it's really ridiculous for the right reasons:
You can make fun of someone when you read that speaker wire insulation needs to be made of unbleached cotton but I can see why they'd say to avoid certain plastics or other chemicals that surround certain wires in some applications.
In the same way I can also make fun of people claiming that everything needs to be insulated using the best (read lowest DA) insulation.
On both occasions, both situations can be ridiculed as obviously neither understand what should matter, where and why.
Until then, why not keep an open mind and try something out yourself? Even if it seems pure lunacy?
Cheers,
Hmmm...I have one of those in my pants....I mean the zipper....
Seriously though....
Why get all upset about something you've never tried?
Does Peter know what he thinks he knows by just sitting in his chair?
Don't think so....
So if we go through the logic:
Would anyone care to market a product_ this does cost money _if no one could hear a difference?
Maybe but not for long, quite likely not long enough to break even.
Personally I try to never laugh at something or someone I don't understand unless it's really ridiculous for the right reasons:
You can make fun of someone when you read that speaker wire insulation needs to be made of unbleached cotton but I can see why they'd say to avoid certain plastics or other chemicals that surround certain wires in some applications.
In the same way I can also make fun of people claiming that everything needs to be insulated using the best (read lowest DA) insulation.
On both occasions, both situations can be ridiculed as obviously neither understand what should matter, where and why.
Until then, why not keep an open mind and try something out yourself? Even if it seems pure lunacy?
Cheers,
there is a simple fact why i can´t speak about myself in this case. gess what.
But excuse, i can´t take someone serios who belives those caps sound bad but listens to electronic music of a kind that can´t do anything but harm your ears, and worse, belives in mystic live and information behind photographies. huu!
Before you tell me about capacitor sound go any listen to something that has the right to be called music.
At least with what i listened today they sound very good (if they do anything to sound)
Janacek, Sinfomietta, etc
some Beethoven,
some Orff
better compare using same recorded material and not some industrial mess.
As at least 2 of them are recoded in germany i´m pretty sure the signal has allready seen some wima caps.
fdegrove said:
Unfotunately I guess if you think a little about it, you will find examples of such fraud in many a buisness.
To take a look at something I know being a fact, the medico buisness.
Across the street from where I had my time as an apprentice, there was a pill factory. They produced all sorts of wonderpills. The cruel fact was unfortunately that most of what they produced was based on 99.9% talcum or C vitamins. They naturally had to include some of the respective herb that the pill was advertised to contain, but it would resemble making 1 ton of strawberry marmelade but using just 1 strawberry.
That company is still alive and kicking after more than 20 years.
Magura
You shouldn't judge anybody by the type of music he listens to. I listen to electronica and industrial simply because it's in line with my usual state of mind.
But for critical system evaluation, I'm listening to more audiophile recordings. So today to check the photographs I was using:
Paganini for Two: Gil Shahan und Goran Sollscher- Works for Violin and Guitar, Deutsche Grammophon GmbH
Ballads in blue , Enja Records Munchen
Giacchino Rossini, Sonate per Archi, Platte1, Delta Music GmbH
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, Scherazade, Deutsche Grammophon
Holly Cole, Temptation, Alert Music Inc.
All those recordings are highly recommended.
But for critical system evaluation, I'm listening to more audiophile recordings. So today to check the photographs I was using:
Paganini for Two: Gil Shahan und Goran Sollscher- Works for Violin and Guitar, Deutsche Grammophon GmbH
Ballads in blue , Enja Records Munchen
Giacchino Rossini, Sonate per Archi, Platte1, Delta Music GmbH
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, Scherazade, Deutsche Grammophon
Holly Cole, Temptation, Alert Music Inc.
All those recordings are highly recommended.
Hi,
Fraud is fraud, no doubt about that.
In the medical business, sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind...profiteering on it is wrong though.
For example, in order to save someones' life a doctor may need to prescribe a placebo to a patient...In order to make it acceptable as the real thing he may have to charge the patient the amount asked for the real thing.
I don't consider that fraud.
But I think you understand my previous post: it's just the usual horses for courses thing and I don't blame anyone for playing it safe and use the best dielectric wherever it makes for more "psychological comfort".
After all, if all of us would be skilled in practicing law there would be no need for lawyers either...Not a bad thing to have you may say.
Cheers,
Fraud is fraud, no doubt about that.
In the medical business, sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind...profiteering on it is wrong though.
For example, in order to save someones' life a doctor may need to prescribe a placebo to a patient...In order to make it acceptable as the real thing he may have to charge the patient the amount asked for the real thing.
I don't consider that fraud.
But I think you understand my previous post: it's just the usual horses for courses thing and I don't blame anyone for playing it safe and use the best dielectric wherever it makes for more "psychological comfort".
After all, if all of us would be skilled in practicing law there would be no need for lawyers either...Not a bad thing to have you may say.
Cheers,
The only "snake and oil" I've ever taken part in is just simply turining the lights off. I don't know how, but my stereo always sounds way better in the dark
I think it's because my visual refereneces are lost, and so I don't judge the sound on the physical limitations of the room/speakers.
Also one "room modification" I think may be worth doing, and probably the the only one I think, would be coving foam with speaker cloth and putting it on the walls. The foam to absorb reflections, and the speaker cloth to simply make it look good. I think like what they do in a theater where they put a bunch of overlapping fabric on the wall would have a similar effect.
But as far as that thing on the first page, I just don't logically see how those could effect anything.
I think it's because my visual refereneces are lost, and so I don't judge the sound on the physical limitations of the room/speakers.
Also one "room modification" I think may be worth doing, and probably the the only one I think, would be coving foam with speaker cloth and putting it on the walls. The foam to absorb reflections, and the speaker cloth to simply make it look good. I think like what they do in a theater where they put a bunch of overlapping fabric on the wall would have a similar effect.
But as far as that thing on the first page, I just don't logically see how those could effect anything.
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