planet10 said:
Hmmm. Looking at the specs for Lowthers, they seem to be decidedly underdamped mechanically, with mechanical Qs (Qms) ranging from 2 to 4 depending on the model.
Taking the 8 ohm PM6C as an example, with an 80 ohm source impedance, the driver's Qts goes from a decidedly overdamped 0.272 to a decidedly underdamped 2.6.
se
Steve,
You are off on a tangent again
.....................you need a simple speaker.........Zen speaker, that is.
http://madlabs.info/simple_speaker.shtml
Regards,
Jam
You are off on a tangent again
.....................you need a simple speaker.........Zen speaker, that is.http://madlabs.info/simple_speaker.shtml
Regards,
Jam
Nelson Pass said:
NICE!! of course...i have always wondered what happens with that rear wave after travelling through an additional 12 feet of horn (as in the yamamuras, goto, western electric, etc). are there serious phase issues? i was quite interested in trying to recreate a western electric 15a horn at one point...but gave up the project after reading discussions about the time delay in such a long horn when being paired with a high and/or low range driver(s)! when listening to music...is this noticable?!
jam said:Steve,
You are off on a tangent again
http://madlabs.info/simple_speaker.shtml
Regards,
Jam
Very simple, that's why it should be the best.
I have 2 questions:
1) does the type of the plastic party type cup matter,
2) where can I get that 22-30 gauge magnet wire.
Thanks for your responses beforehand.
Nelson Pass said:
You'll never get anywhere if you listen to the "experts" who
say it can't be done but haven't tried it.
i hear ya! *generally* i let my ignorance be my guide
BUT...you still didn't answer my question
i'm assuming that they do sound great, and technical issues just fade away?!
Steve Eddy said:
i'm totally with ya there! and if i really like the way something sounds...i don't give a s**t what technical issues it has!!
...but with this specific topic...i had done a decent bit of research on the old weco field coil systems, and i read somewhere that the horn path was so long, that you could actually hear an "echo" because of the difference between the horn, and the direct-radiating woofers.
i love backloaded horns (even though technically...*any* of them "color" the sound)...but i don't know if i could live with a system that was so out of phase that it seemed to echo
finally...i have wanted to build a gigantic pair of horns for quite some time now (i have a forgiving wife), but before i plop down that kind of time/money...i want to make sure i wouldn't be *totally* dissappointed
enochRoot said:...but with this specific topic...i had done a decent bit of research on the old weco field coil systems, and i read somewhere that the horn path was so long, that you could actually hear an "echo" because of the difference between the horn, and the direct-radiating woofers.
i love backloaded horns (even though technically...*any* of them "color" the sound)...but i don't know if i could live with a system that was so out of phase that it seemed to echo
finally...i have wanted to build a gigantic pair of horns for quite some time now (i have a forgiving wife), but before i plop down that kind of time/money...i want to make sure i wouldn't be *totally* dissappointed
Certainly no design is without flaws, you simply have to decide
which ones you want to put up with. In the case of back loaded
horns with a full range driver, one of the important elements is
to create a low pass filter with the driver's box volume versus
the throat impedance.
This removes the higher frequencies as much as possible. By
limiting the horn output to the bottom, you minimize the echo
to which you refer, and also the phase shift. For example, to
be effective, a horn should have about 1/4 wavelength for its
length, and a mouth diameter that supports 1/2 wavelength.
The result is that you are in the ballpark of a 90 degree phase
delay at that frequency, which isn't much at all and is comparable
to ordinary woofers in boxes in real rooms. The problem comes
at higher frequencies, and you want to limit them through the
acoustic filter and maybe some acoustic damping in the horn itself.
You might imagine that at some point, the wave coming out of
the horn is 180 degress out of phase with the directly radiated
signal, and would cancel, creating a big dip. In real life we don't
see that - and with a little work and maybe a little EQ, you can
pretty much get what you want.
If the horn is not used with a full range driver, then just low
pass the bass electronically and put a delay on frequencies
above that.
In any case, this is not my first such rear (or front) loaded horn
in the last 33 years, and I've been happy with all of them.
enochRoot said:i'm totally with ya there! and if i really like the way something sounds...i don't give a s**t what technical issues it has!!
Yup. I'm a complete hedonist myself.
Yeah, I recall reading that recently myself. I seem to recall it having to do with a recording of tap dancing.
i love backloaded horns (even though technically...*any* of them "color" the sound)...but i don't know if i could live with a system that was so out of phase that it seemed to echo
Yeah, that might be a bit much.
finally...i have wanted to build a gigantic pair of horns for quite some time now (i have a forgiving wife), but before i plop down that kind of time/money...i want to make sure i wouldn't be *totally* dissappointed
Build yourself a pair of these.
se
I'll give you a hint. Somewhere at the exhibition where those horns are shown go and take a CD with philharmonic orchestra with you (Beethoven etc., or Berlioz-Symphonie fantastique-March to Scaffold). The music should have pretty nice difference between loud and silent parts. Play it on a system with horns, and have a look at the face of the man who exposes the horns ...
PMA said:I'll give you a hint. Somewhere at the exhibition where those horns are shown go and take a CD with philharmonic orchestra with you (Beethoven etc., or Berlioz-Symphonie fantastique-March to Scaffold). The music should have pretty nice difference between loud and silent parts. Play it on a system with horns, and have a look at the face of the man who exposes the horns ...
You can play that trick with any sound system
Nelson Pass said:
In any case, this is not my first such rear (or front) loaded horn
in the last 33 years, and I've been happy with all of them.
perfect...answered my question. in reality...i guess the difference between 6 and 12 (or more) feet shouldn't be *that* much...with the speed of sound and all. and i have built some fairly large horns and loved them. i was just scared there might be an issue when you enter that "über-horn" arena
now...how long did it take to build those suckers?!
Steve Eddy said:
thanks!! i couldn't remember the example they used!!
Steve Eddy said:
Build yourself a pair of these.
se
i LOVE the bionors!! actually...i almost *bought* a pair of the originals 6 months ago (minus the hi-frequency driver/horn...WAY too much money for those)!! unfortunately...freight put it out of my budget ;-) and that was just to ship the actual horns (i would have built new front baffles myself!!) supposedly they are some the finest horns ever made (according to friends that have heard them). i just LOVE all that old klangfilm stuff (sounds great...and aesthetically...second to none in my book). but now that you mention it...a diy version...hmmm
enochRoot said:i LOVE the bionors!! actually...i almost *bought* a pair of the originals 6 months ago (minus the hi-frequency driver/horn...WAY too much money for those)!! unfortunately...freight put it out of my budget ;-) and that was just to ship the actual horns (i would have built new front baffles myself!!) supposedly they are some the finest horns ever made (according to friends that have heard them). i just LOVE all that old klangfilm stuff (sounds great...and aesthetically...second to none in my book). but now that you mention it...a diy version...hmmm
Hehehe.
Yeah, soon as I saw them I started thinking about ripping the fireplace out of the living room and building one of those into the wall and going mono a la Sakuma.
se
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