And Now For Something REALLY BIG

[ingvar ahlberg]

Care to name a few from your experience?

Imo the new drivers from Beyma and Faital with polymer membranes sounds better than anything else, actually on par with the best amt drivers.

Beyma CD10Fe or CD10Nd and Faital HF104, to me, ounds better than anything else, shouldn´t be x-overed lower than about 1500 thou, i prefer around 3kHz.

 

[tinitus]

did you try the new HF100 against original older HF100 ?

Like the acceleration in a big car that gently pushes you back into the soft leather seat as it approaches warp speed compared to a small car that is all whizzy and you have to wring the nuts off it.

warpspeed sounds like more than just good midbass to me

Leaving power to rock aside .........

what a shame
what else is there to play
violins are for sizzy snobs
nah, just joking, ofcourse
I love violins, and they will always be trouble
never meant to played in stereo
violins ? go to a concert

Maybee, but i would go for 15 or 12"......

15FH520 ?
looks like the best 15" 2way contender to me

 

[Pano]

Thanks for the photo of the Onken W cabinets and the 15 cell horns. That's gotta be killer. I've never heard those two mated up, but it should be wonderful.

You can do a 2-way with a 15" and 1" driver, if you pick the right ones. 18" and 1" is harder, a 1.4 is a better mate. Look for an 18" with a benign top end, that's important. Most have a nasty peak at the top. (So do many 15s)

 

[ingvar ahlberg]

did you try the new HF100 against original older HF100 ?

No, haven´t tried the new version yet, my stock of HF100 was was quite large but not that many left now.

15FH520 ?
looks like the best 15" 2way contender to me

It´s good but i prefer the 15FH510, less peaky at 2-3k, stronger motor, Bl 21,3,
also imo the new ferit series from Faital sounds even better than the neo versions, same transientresponse but with a "darker" voice, and cheaper too.

The 15FX560 is also a very good driver for 2-way, but cost quite a bit more.

 

[JRKO]

Thanks for the photo of the Onken W cabinets and the 15 cell horns. That's gotta be killer. I've never heard those two mated up, but it should be wonderful.

You can do a 2-way with a 15" and 1" driver, if you pick the right ones. 18" and 1" is harder, a 1.4 is a better mate. Look for an 18" with a benign top end, that's important. Most have a nasty peak at the top. (So do many 15s)

Hey Pano, here is the article with a few more pix Onken W & Altec 1803 . Do you think this 8 cell version of that horn i linked to earlier is any good? 8 Cell Multicell Horns for JBL,Beyma,Altec

I could go HF104 or HF144 on the 8 cell and use the Beta15's I have for now. Then swap out for better drivers a few months later.

If I use the minidsp I can muck around with crossovers to my hearts content or are physical crossovers the preferred method with horns?

 

[tinitus]

Do you think this 8 cell version of that horn i linked to earlier is any good?

considering the price, Iwata 600 looks quite good
like said, study throat area very carefully, it should to be 100% smooth
get the new HF100, its only 37GBP
just look at the smoothened impedance curve, and you know why
new one have wider magnet, old one have magnet and house of equal size

 

[afa]

Am presently building a 97+dB 1w/1m system for a customer, four 10" p audio woofers , 6.5" eminence mid and 1" eminence horn, 200 litre 1.8 metre tall boxes, should go down to 40Hz, might mod the mid to sound cleaner, will post pics when finished.

 

[mclsound]

Hey
Good luck with your project JR.
I will be doing a MCL-MRP4 this winter(master reference prototype 4)
I have aquired all my parts now...
These will be configured in a W.MB.M.T.M.MB.W
All active with a Bryston 10BLR in 2-way stereo and a pair of PMC modified(whatever) 10BLR's in 3way mono.
Krell FPB 600c on lows
Krell KSA300s on midbass...(for now although a 200s would suffice)
Theta Dreadnaught(4ch) on mids/highs...(for now cause I have it)(tubes later)
4-JBL 2245-reconed and doped
4-JBL 2118(BNIB)
4-ATC 75/150"S"
2-SS 7100
2-SS 9700(rear fill)

So I have been watching this JR...Good luck

 

[Hezz]

I really love the videos of HUGE JBL's and big ol' Altecs on various sites. The sheer size of the cabinets and visceral presence of the sound they seem, and are reported to produce is intriguing and 'lust worthy'. Especially the big 4350 & 4355 and Kenrick Sounds own 4351 (a vertically arranged 4355)

There don't appear to be many projects on the scale of these $$$$$ giants, and understandably so with WAF, room size and cost etc to be taken into account. But what if..............?

Maybe 2x 15inch Eminence drivers for bass up to 100-150hz, a decent 10inch mid (recommendations?) up to 1000-1300hz, then maybe a paudio 2 incher on a 2380 cloned horn up to 8khz-9khz & then ??????????

How could it be done for a reasonable price (comparable to the JBL's)? What design concerns are there with HUGE 4-ways (assumed active)?

Let your juices flow in a mental exercise in excess - you never know, someone might build it?

This is my conceptualization of the ultimate end all large speaker.

A kind of hybrid between the Elsinore the Gedlee and the Beyond the Arial.

Using 4 12 high efficiency woofer drivers and a integrated type of 1.4 large format horn. The system would probably need a tweeter also (not shown in the picture). All four woofers cover the bottom octaves and the upper two cover the mid/bass region. Not extremely big at about 20 inches wide by 68 inches tall and 28 inches deep. But very good sized.

The goal here is to have a total system sensitivity at or above 100 db.

 

[buzzforb]

I will be starting a new thread about a TL woofer/Horn combo. Trying to dig up my MJK files and cant find them, but I have contacted him about it.

 

[Pano]

Ah, silly me, I didn't count the cells. Should have known if it's as wide as the Onken-W, then is must be an 1803. Cal Weldon has a pair of those, lucky fellow.

If I use the minidsp I can muck around with crossovers to my hearts content or are physical crossovers the preferred method with horns?

I think passive crossovers sound a bit more natural than active, but that just my taste. I ran my system active for a long time. The big advantage of active crossovers is they are so much easier to get right. And you can tweak and tweak to your heart's content.

I dunno about the 8 cell wooden horns. I doubt they would suck.

 

[LafeEric]

...
I think passive crossovers sound a bit more natural than active, but that just my taste. I ran my system active for a long time. The big advantage of active crossovers is they are so much easier to get right. And you can tweak and tweak to your heart's content...

Are you advocating figuring out a system by being active and then transferring that to passive?

Wouldn't you recommend that most for a smaller speaker rather than something larger that would most likely take more power to run?

 

[Pano]

No, large speakers take less power - as they are more efficient. Remember? I hardly ever crack 1 watt. Average is more like 1/8 watt or less.

Doing the prototyping in active was a huge help for me. Once I had what I wanted, I made a passive crossover that does the exact same filter functions as the active. You have to measure the driver impedance curves for that. It took only minor tweaking once the passive was built. Very happy with the result.

 

[tinitus]

I would, thou, recomend a look at the 15FH510, the new ferit motor version.

tried a calculation
hard to squeeze much deep bass out of that one
maybe 0.27 Qts is a bit on the low side to do ordinary vented BR

my applogy
Im getting tired of searching and calculating, and not finding the one and only perfect one
so I might actually choose to spend the rest of my sorry life with this one
not perfect bottom, but nice top, and does not demand a big space

 

[JRKO]

so I might actually choose to spend the rest of my sorry life with this one. not perfect bottom, but nice top, and does not demand a big space

Been bashing away at T/S numbers and boxes. I keep coming back to the 15FH510 too. It should see me to somewhere between 1khz and 2khz for a crossover with the HF100 or HF104

Just concerned about such a physically big driver covering the vocal etc range.....

 

[buzzforb]

I am simply trying to decide what horn to mate with the 15fh510. I may go for the 1.4" Faital with polymer diaghram for more low end. It seems we may have a trifecta of speakers going soon. I really like the look of the JBL K2, but was realy thnking JMLC horns instead of biradial. I cannot find much info on the biradials. Imight ask jinzaga.
AS for big driver covering vocal range, evryone I have talked to likes it that way. More body in the music, vs sounding shallow. I would think you have a good idea of this based on the Emken.

 

[tinitus]

I may go for the 1.4" Faital with polymer diaghram for more low end.

new HF107 looks interesting

 

[JRKO]

I am simply trying to decide what horn to mate with the 15fh510. I may go for the 1.4" Faital with polymer diaghram for more low end. It seems we may have a trifecta of speakers going soon. I really like the look of the JBL K2, but was realy thnking JMLC horns instead of biradial. I cannot find much info on the biradials. Imight ask jinzaga.

Yeah the JMLC 600 is looking good. Can you point to any reviews, measurements etc? Am trying to find out if they have a UK distributer.

AS for big driver covering vocal range, evryone I have talked to likes it that way. More body in the music, vs sounding shallow. I would think you have a good idea of this based on the Emken.

Yes the Emken is very good. I was just concerned that the extra 3 inches and lack of a whizzer might kill it off slightly. The 15fh510 freq/resp graph is a thing of beauty for such a big driver thou!!

 

[buzzforb]

@Tinitus,
I will begetting the hf144 or 204. Both push resonant impedance down low and will give the option of crossing low or high,depending on what you want handle vocal range.

@JRKO,
Not much info on any of them, really. I will sjoot jinzaga an email and ask for more info.

 

[djn]

Yeah the JMLC 600 is looking good. Can you point to any reviews, measurements etc? Am trying to find out if they have a UK distributer.



Yes the Emken is very good. I was just concerned that the extra 3 inches and lack of a whizzer might kill it off slightly. The 15fh510 freq/resp graph is a thing of beauty for such a big driver thou!!

A friend of mine has the JMLC 300 with TAD driver. They sound wonderful and have a very wide but acurate dispersion. The sound stage is as impressive as the detail. I like my round tractrix, but they are narrow where the JMLC is not.