Mr. curl .. I had to repair this for $$ . This was a good objective reference to any of my "idiot" DIY comparisons. It was amazing to A/B the 2 (symasym/genesis stealth) and see the real life differences between the 2 (I wont listen for hours) the Class a steath at the "first watt", I must admit was superior, At the onset of outdoor use , the "sym" came out of the dark and took over, over 100V AC , there was no speaker in the house that could take that,
so . I need better speakers...
But , In
tennessee , maybe a better AB , would be better to INTEGRATE with the environment.I read your thread.. absorb all that is useful.. thanX,,
(Mr curl . PM me .. then you will know... Not this .. a lie )
OS
I guess I find a comparison to a better amp not needed. There will always be a better amp sure. But why do you need one if the amp you are using recreates a realistic soundfield? That is what ostripper reported so why would he even need to compare it to a true class A?
There seems to be a convoluted relationship with the audiophile and the studiophile imo. As soon as that relationship is sorted out and comes closer to a 1:1 relationship with considerations into availability of quality components etc... I think it is NOT the stuff in between the notes that is the problem but it is the notes themselves and the mistrust of communications between the studio and the audience.
There seems to be a convoluted relationship with the audiophile and the studiophile imo. As soon as that relationship is sorted out and comes closer to a 1:1 relationship with considerations into availability of quality components etc... I think it is NOT the stuff in between the notes that is the problem but it is the notes themselves and the mistrust of communications between the studio and the audience.
I have had the privilege of listening to a to a 8K$ first class AAA
amp (heated the winter house up at 200W p/ch) . It's audio qualities
were unanticipated (relistened to media). After this endeavor I proceeded to convert the second genesis into a Huge "symasym"
(read the thread) . So , I guess , only ,I have heard a 200 W class A
(BS) BUT , I have heard a 225W/ 350W SYMASYM. I could not give a $hit if anybody try's my "supersym" , but it seem's to be the best option to the
miserable class A option.OS
I once built a 250W per channel class A stereo power for VMPS using a regulated supply and 3 fans. It would easily overheat a room, even in winter. Is this what you are referring to? HEAT? So what? That is like criticizing gas milage in my buddy's 651HP rated sedan.
Darn, I was wrong, it was ONLY 64W class A, the rest class A-B. Still, it overheated the room.
Darn, I was wrong, it was ONLY 64W class A, the rest class A-B. Still, it overheated the room.
I am starting to think a straight wire with gain is not what alot of people are after in a power amp(system). For me the perfect system sounds exatly like what the people in the studio heard after mixing it. Yes I know this is imposible and rather vague (and sometimes "worse" sounding than whats possible) but there it is.
To the truth.
What we are comparing is the switching distortion associated with AB with the "mythical purity" of a absolute Class A OPS.
I DO have both in front of me, so MYTHS are objectively distinguished . I am not stupid!!
Dude , it is not impossible , an amp that can " scare" and make you a believer in DIY exists. Mr. curl might not , but he is not god!!
OS
IF YOU can't hear crossover distortion, that's OK. But not all systems or people are in that position. Why don't you just invest in a switching amp? They have comparable levels of xover distortion, sometimes better than a typical class AB amp. Check them out, that might work perfectly for you, and will save electricity too. Amp might pay for itself, over time.
Ordinary, common, standard, or normal people loves distortion
I could see they increase the volume till the clipping..they do listen clipping and feel good.
This turns audio rich, with body, because the square wave generates harmonics... because of clipping..wave becomes squared as you know.
To those people, all amplifiers can be good when they have not AGC, or another kind of power control..... saturating they love.
But i could see audiophiles beeing very sophisticated and in special sensitive for sound stage and dinamics...and this depends on some tricks into the amplifier and a huge power supply, a double power supply. filled with a lot of capacitance on it.
There are several "departments" into our brain... a very wonderfull thing... we use to correct audio, to fill the gaps, to use some kind of "musical experience" to correct (not memory) and one important department we have is the politically correct analisis... some kind of "supervising department...where the boss is"
What i wanna say about that.
We leave into a group... alike apes we have to obbey some rules.... John Curl, as a famous designer, must produce good things, this is acceptable and something inside everyone spectations...so...your brain politically correct department section, will make you appreciate John Curl design sonics...even if you feel "something strange" into the audio reproduction (just an example boys..no one is perceiving strange things into John Curl designs), you gonna blame speaker, acoustics, audio source, musical program and so on if you perceive something not good while listening his amplifiers... your conscience will have, into the output (words, ideas, analisis, feelings) a positive approach about all John Curl designs... even the ones John felt not very good.
Because his fame...everyone will consider you stupid if you do not appreciate his designs audio (the King and the magical clothing tale)... this forces you, naturally, and you have not a conscience of that, to appreciate... i mean that you do not know what happens inside your brain departments.
I mean...you believe what you want to believe...your brain decides, and usually you have not conscience about what is happening inside yourself.
Maybe this seems complicated, but it is very simple, we have only to make ourselves flexible to understand.
A good exercise to understand how we fool ourselves is when we decide to give something to a friend... a gift.
We do not give something to other person to make that other person happy..we do not even know (conscience about) but we feed ourselves watching the other one happyness while receiving a gift (this feeds yourself with a glad feeling)... you want to be happy, not exaclty to make the other one happy...you want him friendly with you... alike a deal made....
You are saying, without having conscience of that, to the one you give something:
-You must return some kindness to me someday!
-I am your friend, so, do not attack me, help me, defend me, do not compete with me and make a peace agreement as i do not want you as an amenace.
-Beeing with me we gonna be two, more strong to face others, then the life competition will be easier if we join our forces together.
And many other things happens and i will not talk about some of those things because you will not believe.
I am explaining those things, to show you, we are a fooling machine, much more complex than you can imagine..also we use to lye all time long.
When we say... "I do not bother about that"..or i do not give a sh-- about that..we are saying, crying and loud and clear that we are very worried with that subject that have hurted us a lot.
That's the reason why we do not understand, in a easy way, how people judge things or evaluate things... it is very complex..not a easy task..not rational, very personnal.
I have made tests using my own amplifiers, and they do not reproduce the same wonderfull audio Aksa does... telling them was an Aksa playing, all friends said sound was wonderfull..and many times..was not an Aksa playing..once was a 5 watts JLH
ahahahahahahahah!
I could see they increase the volume till the clipping..they do listen clipping and feel good.
This turns audio rich, with body, because the square wave generates harmonics... because of clipping..wave becomes squared as you know.
To those people, all amplifiers can be good when they have not AGC, or another kind of power control..... saturating they love.
But i could see audiophiles beeing very sophisticated and in special sensitive for sound stage and dinamics...and this depends on some tricks into the amplifier and a huge power supply, a double power supply. filled with a lot of capacitance on it.
There are several "departments" into our brain... a very wonderfull thing... we use to correct audio, to fill the gaps, to use some kind of "musical experience" to correct (not memory) and one important department we have is the politically correct analisis... some kind of "supervising department...where the boss is"
What i wanna say about that.
We leave into a group... alike apes we have to obbey some rules.... John Curl, as a famous designer, must produce good things, this is acceptable and something inside everyone spectations...so...your brain politically correct department section, will make you appreciate John Curl design sonics...even if you feel "something strange" into the audio reproduction (just an example boys..no one is perceiving strange things into John Curl designs), you gonna blame speaker, acoustics, audio source, musical program and so on if you perceive something not good while listening his amplifiers... your conscience will have, into the output (words, ideas, analisis, feelings) a positive approach about all John Curl designs... even the ones John felt not very good.
Because his fame...everyone will consider you stupid if you do not appreciate his designs audio (the King and the magical clothing tale)... this forces you, naturally, and you have not a conscience of that, to appreciate... i mean that you do not know what happens inside your brain departments.
I mean...you believe what you want to believe...your brain decides, and usually you have not conscience about what is happening inside yourself.
Maybe this seems complicated, but it is very simple, we have only to make ourselves flexible to understand.
A good exercise to understand how we fool ourselves is when we decide to give something to a friend... a gift.
We do not give something to other person to make that other person happy..we do not even know (conscience about) but we feed ourselves watching the other one happyness while receiving a gift (this feeds yourself with a glad feeling)... you want to be happy, not exaclty to make the other one happy...you want him friendly with you... alike a deal made....
You are saying, without having conscience of that, to the one you give something:
-You must return some kindness to me someday!
-I am your friend, so, do not attack me, help me, defend me, do not compete with me and make a peace agreement as i do not want you as an amenace.
-Beeing with me we gonna be two, more strong to face others, then the life competition will be easier if we join our forces together.
And many other things happens and i will not talk about some of those things because you will not believe.
I am explaining those things, to show you, we are a fooling machine, much more complex than you can imagine..also we use to lye all time long.
When we say... "I do not bother about that"..or i do not give a sh-- about that..we are saying, crying and loud and clear that we are very worried with that subject that have hurted us a lot.
That's the reason why we do not understand, in a easy way, how people judge things or evaluate things... it is very complex..not a easy task..not rational, very personnal.
I have made tests using my own amplifiers, and they do not reproduce the same wonderfull audio Aksa does... telling them was an Aksa playing, all friends said sound was wonderfull..and many times..was not an Aksa playing..once was a 5 watts JLH
ahahahahahahahah!
Subjective: I like my amp! I put that aside and know that I enjoy what the symasym users/builders + 12DB enjoy. 
Objectively , I know it is in the same "league" as a true class a
and beats it in "headroom" (nuff sed")
Carlos , I do 100V , No clip.. in fact .. no speaker can take the "supersym" , even a pair of 15" paralleled .. all day.
OS
Objectively , I know it is in the same "league" as a true class a
and beats it in "headroom" (nuff sed")
Carlos , I do 100V , No clip.. in fact .. no speaker can take the "supersym" , even a pair of 15" paralleled .. all day.
OS
What makes an amplifier good?
First thing, in my point of view is topologie
Second is the supply, in special if you have double supply
The ammount of condensers plays a lot into the final quality
Gadgets, how it looks, lamps, design, shape, how heavy it is,
how powerfull it is, how expensive it is and how rare it can be.
If the unit is customized..then this affects a lot
What do you think about the designer counts a lot!..is he famous?... is he rich?...is he kind?... does he give you attention?
What other folks thinks about the brand?... is it acceptable to love that brand?
The last thing is how the sound is precise..this is the less important thing.
We are not measurement instruments boys..we are humans..we fool ourselves all time long...you are not beautifull, not the only one that is clever,mankind is not stupid, your wife is not the most beautifull woman in the world, and you son is not the most clever guy in your place... maybe, in the reality, you may not be even clever...you just think you are.
Of course i am included ..... maybe the difference is that i am trained in psychology...many years into a University studying the stuff together electronics and psycho acoustics....so.... i have a good idea about all that crazy stuff (seems crazy..but it is not!)
Carlos
First thing, in my point of view is topologie
Second is the supply, in special if you have double supply
The ammount of condensers plays a lot into the final quality
Gadgets, how it looks, lamps, design, shape, how heavy it is,
how powerfull it is, how expensive it is and how rare it can be.
If the unit is customized..then this affects a lot
What do you think about the designer counts a lot!..is he famous?... is he rich?...is he kind?... does he give you attention?
What other folks thinks about the brand?... is it acceptable to love that brand?
The last thing is how the sound is precise..this is the less important thing.
We are not measurement instruments boys..we are humans..we fool ourselves all time long...you are not beautifull, not the only one that is clever,mankind is not stupid, your wife is not the most beautifull woman in the world, and you son is not the most clever guy in your place... maybe, in the reality, you may not be even clever...you just think you are.
Of course i am included ..... maybe the difference is that i am trained in psychology...many years into a University studying the stuff together electronics and psycho acoustics....so.... i have a good idea about all that crazy stuff (seems crazy..but it is not!)
Carlos
satoru said:
I like your comments. And I agree with a lot of it but I would like to add another variable into hearing that I think is present - error correction and processing/decoding of directional information.
Assuming our ears act as a transducer and our brain acts as a processor there is a very large variable to account for. Come up with as many error correction schemes as you can think of and remember that evolution has had maybe a billion years to work on these techniques with a processor that is much more powerful than any computer we are using. I am thinking a combination of ultrafast buffering with feedforward, feedback, and buffer loading error correction schemes - maybe some other technique we have not documented yet.
Now consider the "trained person" or skilled listener. In addition to natural genetic superiorities and inferiorities there will also be people who are just determined because the job at hand requires them to be able to listen closer. These examples to me resemble athletes. Athlete and musician comparisons I find often hold up. You have some people just born naturally gifted, some that need to work at it, and some that will NEVER be good at it.
Anyway the reason I bring this up is because I believe there needs to be a certain amount of a suspension of disbelief for an audio system to work well. And when you are doing critical listening you are attempting to turn off any error correction your mind might be using or at the very least control it to suit the task at hand. I think that just opening up your eyes and having a lack of a localized source for a sound is very unnatural to begin with - enough to send a flag to your brain that you are listening to speakers and not yourself within the original captured sound event. It is a sensitive thing sound reproduction and I think it requires you to play a little trick on yourself or play a sort of game.
I'm done.
that IS the Exact sort of game I am playing. With no mind altering drugs , I am comparing a LIVE eagles concert to the 5.1... I can produce in the living room . the living room RULES (no stupid crowds) and I can drink/smoke what I want .. + 120 db is my preferred environment. I have the real eagles concert to base my
OBJECTIVE opinion on..
Os
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