a friend of mine is working @ M-Audio 
)
They are using AKM AK4524VF
I hate these codecs ...
listen: We need a really good A/D))
Watch the attached file ... this is our self-build A/D.
Is it good? Sinus Sweep!
ADC cs5361.
OPA2134 by TI / Burr Brown
Switched-Capacitor Voltage Converter LT1054
)They are using AKM AK4524VF
I hate these codecs ...
listen: We need a really good A/D
))Watch the attached file ... this is our self-build A/D.
Is it good? Sinus Sweep!
ADC cs5361.
OPA2134 by TI / Burr Brown
Switched-Capacitor Voltage Converter LT1054
Attachments
-----------------------------------------------------peranders said:
I evaluated the unit and didn't think much of the adc/dac sound - rather bland with little dynamic impact; rather inoffensive. The Wadia 17 is better but errs in the wrong direction. A homemade CS5396/BB1704 sounds better than both.
Adc
the bigger problem I think is the synchronizing with low levels of jitter. A good PLL gives about 100pS , which is much for a studio equipment. The design may use an ASRC like AD1896 and master clock and a PLL to generate the output clock from the synchro signal. This is a complex design, and more, maybe the ASRC will have it's own colours of sound. I do not know how the profi-equipment are made, but this will be the solution I would prefer. ASRC are sayd to be used in "digital mixing consoles" mainly
There are some good ADCs like AD5396/97, AKM you mention and the new 5381. On my knowledge, AKM are large sales - oriented and are generally difficult to be bought in small quantities /especially in my country / / Can you buy AKMs there???
I think CS5396 needs some initialization by a micro, but not sure if this is true. The 5394 is more stand-alone friendly, but only 48kHz.
There are many good opamps from AD and TI, but most favourable I think are AD8620/10 and OPA2134 /134 - the first one is pretty expensive at ~$8 at 1000+ quantities.
Again, the good reclocking is the main problem - have you any info for this?? And what is the output format you need?
Regards
PS: If you were a little bit closer I would have nothing against sending you my DIY DAC for a try /AD1852 OPA2134 based - not something special of course/
TobWen,TobWen said:Why does the CS5396 needs a microcontroller?
Of course ... quality OPs ... I thought of OP275 by Analog Devices.
Jitterclock can come in from Wordclock in the studio-beat.
2 Channels needed right now ... for prototyping of course.
Finally we need 8 channels (mono) A/D and 40 channels (mono) D/A.
But I did not find any good pricing D/A in this forum.
The main problem is, you guys build very good D/As and write much about them in this forum.
But nobody can send me a prototyp to test the sound.
I am really interested in paying a prototyp or paying the time to test it :-(
btw: Budget isn't a big problem
the bigger problem I think is the synchronizing with low levels of jitter. A good PLL gives about 100pS , which is much for a studio equipment. The design may use an ASRC like AD1896 and master clock and a PLL to generate the output clock from the synchro signal. This is a complex design, and more, maybe the ASRC will have it's own colours of sound. I do not know how the profi-equipment are made, but this will be the solution I would prefer. ASRC are sayd to be used in "digital mixing consoles" mainly
There are some good ADCs like AD5396/97, AKM you mention and the new 5381. On my knowledge, AKM are large sales - oriented and are generally difficult to be bought in small quantities /especially in my country /
/ Can you buy AKMs there???I think CS5396 needs some initialization by a micro, but not sure if this is true. The 5394 is more stand-alone friendly, but only 48kHz.
There are many good opamps from AD and TI, but most favourable I think are AD8620/10 and OPA2134 /134 - the first one is pretty expensive at ~$8 at 1000+ quantities.
Again, the good reclocking is the main problem - have you any info for this?? And what is the output format you need?
Regards
PS: If you were a little bit closer I would have nothing against sending you my DIY DAC for a try /AD1852 OPA2134 based - not something special of course/
CS5381 seems to be pretty good on paper and is pin-compatible w. 5361 - but this does not mean it is software - compatible or stand-alone compatible, this should be checked out.
It was at my attention before half an year for one semi-profi design, but only for a while - the design was much more cheaper, say AK4524
Happy New Year
It was at my attention before half an year for one semi-profi design, but only for a while - the design was much more cheaper, say AK4524
Happy New Year
Hi machinow,
no ... I cannot get AKMs here, too.
I am trying to get some CS5381 ... do you have a good distributor for Crystal / Cirrus?
What do you think about my tests of cs5361?
We changed OPA2134 to the cheaper NE5532 and it got much better:
SNR: 109,5 dB
THD+N is 0,0001%
So I don't like the OPA2134 anymore)
Is it compatible to the AD8620/10?
Where can I get it?
Output I need AES3 and S/PDIF.
For clocking we are using a MK1412A at the moment!
no ... I cannot get AKMs here, too.
I am trying to get some CS5381 ... do you have a good distributor for Crystal / Cirrus?
What do you think about my tests of cs5361?
We changed OPA2134 to the cheaper NE5532 and it got much better:
SNR: 109,5 dB
THD+N is 0,0001%
So I don't like the OPA2134 anymore
)Is it compatible to the AD8620/10?
Where can I get it?
Output I need AES3 and S/PDIF.
For clocking we are using a MK1412A at the moment!
Re: Adc
I think CS5396 needs some initialization by a micro, but not sure if this is true. The 5394 is more stand-alone friendly, but only 48kHz.
--------------------------------------------------
The 5396 can be reinitialised by press switch and I recommend it as reinitialisation during use improves the sound - the chip seems to drift.
I think CS5396 needs some initialization by a micro, but not sure if this is true. The 5394 is more stand-alone friendly, but only 48kHz.
--------------------------------------------------
The 5396 can be reinitialised by press switch and I recommend it as reinitialisation during use improves the sound - the chip seems to drift.
TobWen, so you like NE5532 better. What are your demands then? If money is no object why can't you hire a consult for the MC programming?
No ADC is good enough for you, have you tested dCS? They are at least expensive.
http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/
Since you live in Germany you can get all normal IC's, including Cirrus and AKM.
No ADC is good enough for you, have you tested dCS? They are at least expensive.
http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/
Since you live in Germany you can get all normal IC's, including Cirrus and AKM.
Hi peranders,
The results of these project I am gonna share on the web that anybody can rebuild it and make it better.
Of course I can go to the store and buy a 3000 EUR Apogee-A/D.
That is state-of-the-art-quality.
But I don't feel any fun at spending money in a hifi-store
That is correct for a part.
Of course I can get Cirrus & AKM, but the problem is, you can only get 50-1000 from the distributors.
AKM is _very_ hard to get because the normally send to the manufactors of soundcard (etc.) directly and not to the end-customer.
You can get Cirrus in parcels with 50 pieces ... but 50 x 17 EUR is expensive for tests only :-((
No, the measures are better with the NE5532
Where is the fun then? I don't want to have any guy building my ADC ... I want to do it on my own, to test it on my own and be happy about the results of my diy-project.
The results of these project I am gonna share on the web that anybody can rebuild it and make it better.
Of course I can go to the store and buy a 3000 EUR Apogee-A/D.
That is state-of-the-art-quality.
But I don't feel any fun at spending money in a hifi-store
That is correct for a part.
Of course I can get Cirrus & AKM, but the problem is, you can only get 50-1000 from the distributors.
AKM is _very_ hard to get because the normally send to the manufactors of soundcard (etc.) directly and not to the end-customer.
You can get Cirrus in parcels with 50 pieces ... but 50 x 17 EUR is expensive for tests only :-((
Argh, I just have seen that I mixed up 2 things because I hadn't enough sleep.
We need 50 channels D/A in the studio, but only 8 channels A/D.
42-50 ICs isn't much ... 850-900 EUR for ICS.
In Germany distributors only sell parcels with 50-1000 pieces.
You can't buy Cirrus chips under 50 pieces.
That's why developing at home is so very hard here :-((
TobWen said:
You need to find out who their distributors are. They are listed on the relevant manufacturer websites.
A few years ago I worked on the design of a 4ch ADC using AKM and Crystal parts. For the prototypes I was able to get AKM parts in small numbers (4 off) from A UK based company called DIP International. The CS8402 tx chips came from Sequoia Technology also in the UK and again in small numbers.
http://www.dipinternational.co.uk/
http://www.sequoia.co.uk/
BTW, what does the studio as a whole lock to?
cs5361
Howdy TobWen,
using opamps in front of a adc like the 5361/81 is a sin, and the ne5532???!!!
I've not played with the cs5381, only the 5361, 5351 and the ad1871. A CLEAN clock, no matter the chip, is crucial.
I'd rather use a cs5351 with a discrete front end using matched transitors and plastic film caps then a 5381 with opamps and non bypassed electrolytic caps, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Spose this is why I diy, I think opamps should NEVER ever be used, they suck.
Getting the power supplies clean enough for high end adc work isn't easy, good luck
Mark Hathaway
Howdy TobWen,
using opamps in front of a adc like the 5361/81 is a sin, and the ne5532???!!!
I've not played with the cs5381, only the 5361, 5351 and the ad1871. A CLEAN clock, no matter the chip, is crucial.
I'd rather use a cs5351 with a discrete front end using matched transitors and plastic film caps then a 5381 with opamps and non bypassed electrolytic caps, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Spose this is why I diy, I think opamps should NEVER ever be used, they suck.
Getting the power supplies clean enough for high end adc work isn't easy, good luck
Mark Hathaway
ADC
Crystal Semi are maybe easier to be bought here in small quantities, but not sure. Anyway, 5..10+ quantities are necessary. The situation with AKM's is like in your country, or worse.
How does your project measure w. OPA2134s??? NE5532 has a good output stage that delivers less THD with low load inpedances at high frequencies. It is a very good opamp for it's price. AD8620 claims to be some state-of-the-art opamp, and very expensive too
Look for Analog Devices distributor. www.analog.com
You need something like the CS8405/06 for S/PDIF transmitter, if you want sync think about AD1896 from AD, and some PLL for audio... /is MK1412 such, or it is the equipped clock generator in your studio??/
With discrette transistors u can get better results at lower prices, but u need to be advanced analog engeneer to design them, otherway better do with OPAMPS. Good Power Supply and clock is critical.
NE5532 vs OPA2134 - the first can generate much more ID when speed overloaded due to its BJT vs. FET /in OPA2134/ input stage. For best performance use FET OPAMS or Fast Bipolar OPAMPs, some Video OPAMPs with voltage feedback etc. With discrette bjt one can do this easily, at the price of increased noise /1..2uV ref. input/
Regards
Hi TobWen,TobWen said:Hi machinow,
no ... I cannot get AKMs here, too.
I am trying to get some CS5381 ... do you have a good distributor for Crystal / Cirrus?
What do you think about my tests of cs5361?
We changed OPA2134 to the cheaper NE5532 and it got much better:
SNR: 109,5 dB
THD+N is 0,0001%
So I don't like the OPA2134 anymore
Is it compatible to the AD8620/10?
Where can I get it?
Output I need AES3 and S/PDIF.
For clocking we are using a MK1412A at the moment!
Crystal Semi are maybe easier to be bought here in small quantities, but not sure. Anyway, 5..10+ quantities are necessary. The situation with AKM's is like in your country, or worse.
How does your project measure w. OPA2134s??? NE5532 has a good output stage that delivers less THD with low load inpedances at high frequencies. It is a very good opamp for it's price. AD8620 claims to be some state-of-the-art opamp, and very expensive too
Look for Analog Devices distributor. www.analog.comYou need something like the CS8405/06 for S/PDIF transmitter, if you want sync think about AD1896 from AD, and some PLL for audio... /is MK1412 such, or it is the equipped clock generator in your studio??/
With discrette transistors u can get better results at lower prices, but u need to be advanced analog engeneer to design them, otherway better do with OPAMPS. Good Power Supply and clock is critical.
NE5532 vs OPA2134 - the first can generate much more ID when speed overloaded due to its BJT vs. FET /in OPA2134/ input stage. For best performance use FET OPAMS or Fast Bipolar OPAMPs, some Video OPAMPs with voltage feedback etc. With discrette bjt one can do this easily, at the price of increased noise /1..2uV ref. input/
Regards
ADC
Also, PCB layout is very important... Not necessary are the n-layer PCB's, but at 2 layers with large planes and SMD components give good enough results. My higher-end DIY projects have double-sided PCB w. good layout, Euroboards only for small cheap experiments
btw Analog Devices sell small quantities generally, but seems that they do not have very good audio ADCs, or I would prefer them /here I can buy anything at 10+ quantities from their distributor /
Do you have an opinion for the resampling I suggest you?? Otherway you will have to do with 100pSecs of jitter, which is not very good for studios
Regards
Also, PCB layout is very important... Not necessary are the n-layer PCB's, but at 2 layers with large planes and SMD components give good enough results. My higher-end DIY projects have double-sided PCB w. good layout, Euroboards only for small cheap experiments
btw Analog Devices sell small quantities generally, but seems that they do not have very good audio ADCs, or I would prefer them /here I can buy anything at 10+ quantities from their distributor /
Do you have an opinion for the resampling I suggest you?? Otherway you will have to do with 100pSecs of jitter, which is not very good for studios
Regards
machinow,
can't say anything about that
atm the MK1412 is the clock on the A/D and it works for now
At the studio a Fostex D15 acts as a wordclock.
Of course, better analog-equipment could raise quality, but it is hard to get samples and I don't want to change my circuits every day :-((
atm I don't do any resampling. I set the CS5361 to 44.1 KHz and record
don't have one here :-(
can't say anything about that
We are using CS8405A
atm the MK1412 is the clock on the A/D and it works for now
At the studio a Fostex D15 acts as a wordclock.
Of course, better analog-equipment could raise quality, but it is hard to get samples and I don't want to change my circuits every day :-((
atm I don't do any resampling. I set the CS5361 to 44.1 KHz and record
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