Re: Re: newbie here
I had the surrounds redone years ago so they're in good shape. Also I do use a sub - A MTX MX 70. I would be interested in any info as far as updating the crossovers and maybe even updating the mids and woofers too. Got any ideas?
c2cthomas said:
Hi vinylguy - and Welcome to diyAudio!!!
The AMT 3 Rock Monitors are my favorite ESS speaker - but even with the 2 10 inch woofers it can use a little help on the low end so consider using a sub woofer with 'em. The diaphragms can last for a very long time if not abused but if you need replacements Parts Express carries them now as well as Simplyspeakers.com.
I would suspect that the surrounds on the mid's and woofer cones are close to needing replacement due to age and the cross-over networks used components that aren't up to today's standards (good DIY project). If I had those speakers I'd replace the cone mid's and woofers as well as the cross-overs.
I had the surrounds redone years ago so they're in good shape. Also I do use a sub - A MTX MX 70. I would be interested in any info as far as updating the crossovers and maybe even updating the mids and woofers too. Got any ideas?
I’m not a cross-over guru and I’m sure that there are others here that could provide better advice than I. What I did for my two way AMT1b system was use a 10” Pioneer Mid Woofer W25GR31-51F http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-088 and run them full range and used a 6.8 uF cap to cross up to the AMT at around 6kHz http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=027-424 - wired in series with two (total 16R) http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=004-8 to trim the AMT’s down to the Pioneer’s.
There are better speakers to consider – but you get to pay the price – and that choice is up to you. I’m tempted to try out some pro drivers with the AMT’s for the next project which will be an OB type. Most likely will go with an Eminence Alpha or Beta 15 with the AMT’s up top. I’m still undecided on if I want to go with a mid-range or not – but hey fool’n around with things is what DIY is all about!
The x-over is simple and low cost without a lot of components to get in the way of things. BTW credit to the x-over goes to Mamboni from the old Walsh 5 remake thread a year or so ago.
I forget what the Rock Monitors used for a mid-range – I think it’s a six inch – but I’ll need to check on that.
Last of all I’ll say that if you are happy with the way things are – don’t go messing around with ‘em until you feel you are up to it and have a desire to jump outta da fry’n pan – and into you know where. The next thing you know you’ll be looking at building new cab’s and going with active cross-over’s and tri-amping them with 3KW class A amps!!
Hmmmmm – where’s my parts catalog at?? 
There are better speakers to consider – but you get to pay the price – and that choice is up to you. I’m tempted to try out some pro drivers with the AMT’s for the next project which will be an OB type. Most likely will go with an Eminence Alpha or Beta 15 with the AMT’s up top. I’m still undecided on if I want to go with a mid-range or not – but hey fool’n around with things is what DIY is all about!
The x-over is simple and low cost without a lot of components to get in the way of things. BTW credit to the x-over goes to Mamboni from the old Walsh 5 remake thread a year or so ago.
I forget what the Rock Monitors used for a mid-range – I think it’s a six inch – but I’ll need to check on that.
Last of all I’ll say that if you are happy with the way things are – don’t go messing around with ‘em until you feel you are up to it and have a desire to jump outta da fry’n pan – and into you know where. The next thing you know you’ll be looking at building new cab’s and going with active cross-over’s and tri-amping them with 3KW class A amps!!
Hmmmmm – where’s my parts catalog at?? ESS
Anyone with any questions regarding ESS diaphragms and the Great Heil AMT...
can contact Ricky Caudillo directly (at the phone number previously posted).
Or visit the website and contact him there.
www.essspeakersusa.com
He is here to help and product support is available again in the US!
Anyone with any questions regarding ESS diaphragms and the Great Heil AMT...
can contact Ricky Caudillo directly (at the phone number previously posted).
Or visit the website and contact him there.
www.essspeakersusa.com
He is here to help and product support is available again in the US!
Two woofers,one Heil
MeanGene,
I built a pair of small towers using the monopole Heil from the (Criterion?) series. Two 6 1/2 poly woofers from Radio Shack in a D'Appolito 3/2 geometry. The Heils were still louder than the other drivers and I used an RS L-pad to compensate. The woofers were mounted on a double thickness front baffle, approximately 1 1/2 inches forward in an effort to align them with the diaphragm of the Heils and reduce time delay issues. This was a sealed enclosure using (yup, Radio Shack again) two way adjustable x-overs. I can't give you the frequency of the transition or any measurements whatsoever, but they sounded really good with excellent imaging. Not enough bass for me so the enclosures were sold off with a Peerless tweeter (KO10DT) to a friend who burnt the KO's almost immediately. The Heils were recycled into projects again and again and I still have them. They were once used on top of my Ohm F's to extend the highs...I mounted them without the covers on top of the magnets with modeling clay. I'm sure Liincoln Walsh rolled over in his grave that day. I once has a pair of the Linneaum (sp?) dipoles I got from ...yeah, RS and they were very transparent sounding, very neutral. I regret selling them off. Anyone know where a person can get a pair of those stand alone dipoles? I got the pair for $75 from a RS store in sacramento since they were quitting that line of speakers. Cheers!
MeanGene,
I built a pair of small towers using the monopole Heil from the (Criterion?) series. Two 6 1/2 poly woofers from Radio Shack in a D'Appolito 3/2 geometry. The Heils were still louder than the other drivers and I used an RS L-pad to compensate. The woofers were mounted on a double thickness front baffle, approximately 1 1/2 inches forward in an effort to align them with the diaphragm of the Heils and reduce time delay issues. This was a sealed enclosure using (yup, Radio Shack again) two way adjustable x-overs. I can't give you the frequency of the transition or any measurements whatsoever, but they sounded really good with excellent imaging. Not enough bass for me so the enclosures were sold off with a Peerless tweeter (KO10DT) to a friend who burnt the KO's almost immediately. The Heils were recycled into projects again and again and I still have them. They were once used on top of my Ohm F's to extend the highs...I mounted them without the covers on top of the magnets with modeling clay. I'm sure Liincoln Walsh rolled over in his grave that day. I once has a pair of the Linneaum (sp?) dipoles I got from ...yeah, RS and they were very transparent sounding, very neutral. I regret selling them off. Anyone know where a person can get a pair of those stand alone dipoles? I got the pair for $75 from a RS store in sacramento since they were quitting that line of speakers. Cheers!
AMT3
I was wondering if anybody had data about the 6.5 inch AMT3 speaker and the two 10 inchers?
I looking for this info to see what can be used to make a modern incarnation of AMT 3. I ha AMT 1 E Monitors and that configuration forces the Heil to take over at 1Khz which is no great. Better would be to cut at 1.5khz.
I was wondering if anybody had data about the 6.5 inch AMT3 speaker and the two 10 inchers?
I looking for this info to see what can be used to make a modern incarnation of AMT 3. I ha AMT 1 E Monitors and that configuration forces the Heil to take over at 1Khz which is no great. Better would be to cut at 1.5khz.
AMT's of all types
Yeah, that crossover point was a sticking point for me with the 1a's and caused the 12" bass drivers to sound nasally. I had a friend with the 1b's who built his own 24 db x-over and crossed the heils over at approx 500 Hz. They did sound better than mine, (A/B) but with the cost of replacement diaphragms even in 1985 dollars I wouldn't let him touch mine.
You might get some information here: Not my auction, but I can imagine that the twin 10's resolved some of the transient response issues of the earlier ones.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MINT-CONDITION-...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1234|293:1|294:50
Yeah, that crossover point was a sticking point for me with the 1a's and caused the 12" bass drivers to sound nasally. I had a friend with the 1b's who built his own 24 db x-over and crossed the heils over at approx 500 Hz. They did sound better than mine, (A/B) but with the cost of replacement diaphragms even in 1985 dollars I wouldn't let him touch mine.
You might get some information here: Not my auction, but I can imagine that the twin 10's resolved some of the transient response issues of the earlier ones.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MINT-CONDITION-...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1234|293:1|294:50
Wish I could
Unfortunately, I sold my AMT 1a's in the late 80's to fund the conversion of my Ohm F's to the F2's, which I still have! Along with the 1's, 2's and 4XO's. Yup, still enjoy the Walsh stuff. In the states I am just beginning to see the new ESS style drivers (in auctions) but I have never heard one. They look much the same, but steamlined in their new housing. Anyone have specs to compare the old vs new?
Unfortunately, I sold my AMT 1a's in the late 80's to fund the conversion of my Ohm F's to the F2's, which I still have! Along with the 1's, 2's and 4XO's. Yup, still enjoy the Walsh stuff. In the states I am just beginning to see the new ESS style drivers (in auctions) but I have never heard one. They look much the same, but steamlined in their new housing. Anyone have specs to compare the old vs new?
AMT-3 Crossovers
Hey,
I decided to rehab my 3"s by replacing the caps and those control
switches. The first speaker had the xover I expected: 3 coils and etc. The second speaker had a xover with a crude PC board and 4 coils. Hmmm..... I traced out the leads/lands and came up w/ the attached schematic. Has anyone come across this one?
I decided to see how well the inductors on the first speaker xover matched the typical 3 coil schematic values. I used my new L/C multimeter (I know measuring inductances w/ these small handhelds aren't super accurate, but they should be in the neighborhood). Well, it turns out the inductors were in the neighborhood. The mH neighborhood! Only one was near the spec and the other two were way off.
Now I am wondering if I should just buy a 3-way passive and intall it. Any one want to volunteer a brand/model?
I am anxious to read your thoughts!!
Hey,
I decided to rehab my 3"s by replacing the caps and those control
switches. The first speaker had the xover I expected: 3 coils and etc. The second speaker had a xover with a crude PC board and 4 coils. Hmmm..... I traced out the leads/lands and came up w/ the attached schematic. Has anyone come across this one?
I decided to see how well the inductors on the first speaker xover matched the typical 3 coil schematic values. I used my new L/C multimeter (I know measuring inductances w/ these small handhelds aren't super accurate, but they should be in the neighborhood). Well, it turns out the inductors were in the neighborhood. The mH neighborhood! Only one was near the spec and the other two were way off.
Now I am wondering if I should just buy a 3-way passive and intall it. Any one want to volunteer a brand/model?
I am anxious to read your thoughts!!
crossovers for AMT
I still have some left overs from the ESS "professional column" series and a buddy's left over mess of AMT1b's. If you want 'em you can have 'em. My suggestion? Find a thread here or somewhere else and build your own 24db/octave Linkwitz-Riley alignment with new parts and wind up your own air coil inductors, now that you have made the investment of the LC meter. (Mine got stolen, dammit).
I still have some left overs from the ESS "professional column" series and a buddy's left over mess of AMT1b's. If you want 'em you can have 'em. My suggestion? Find a thread here or somewhere else and build your own 24db/octave Linkwitz-Riley alignment with new parts and wind up your own air coil inductors, now that you have made the investment of the LC meter. (Mine got stolen, dammit).
which is it?
The mids-highs that are no good or the bottom end?
I can't imagine that the newer amt's are that different. Similar form, same magnet structure....unless they messed with the diaphragm materials, which is entirely possible given that some of the later ones were made from different polymers. Thank goodness I still have an original or two in my stash if I should burn one out.
Then again, crossovers, enclosure design, supplemental driver quality. You just never know once they OEM this stuff how the final product is going to be. If you can, try another brand! Let us know! I for one appreciate your update.
Telstar said:
The mids-highs that are no good or the bottom end?
I can't imagine that the newer amt's are that different. Similar form, same magnet structure....unless they messed with the diaphragm materials, which is entirely possible given that some of the later ones were made from different polymers. Thank goodness I still have an original or two in my stash if I should burn one out.
Then again, crossovers, enclosure design, supplemental driver quality. You just never know once they OEM this stuff how the final product is going to be. If you can, try another brand! Let us know! I for one appreciate your update.
Re: which is it?
The new models of the AMT diaphragms are currently being produced in Mylar, which is a throwback to the success of Mylar diaphragms in the past, as the later Kapton and Teflon versions were not, as successful.
So far as i know, the magnet structures and focus plates are indeed improved, if only slightly.
Spikedart said:
The new models of the AMT diaphragms are currently being produced in Mylar, which is a throwback to the success of Mylar diaphragms in the past, as the later Kapton and Teflon versions were not, as successful.
So far as i know, the magnet structures and focus plates are indeed improved, if only slightly.
Re: Re: which is it?
Now I can breath a sigh of relief and turn up the volume a bit!
The membranes are still not a commodity though, even in 2009 dollars. Also, I have found that during replacement, the alignment makes a difference in how it sounds, at least in my single diaphragm units. The ones I have now are extremely well matched. Why mess with success?
el seven said:
Now I can breath a sigh of relief and turn up the volume a bit!
The membranes are still not a commodity though, even in 2009 dollars. Also, I have found that during replacement, the alignment makes a difference in how it sounds, at least in my single diaphragm units. The ones I have now are extremely well matched. Why mess with success?
Re: which is it?
Hard to say. But I was referring of course to the mid-highs. The bass was actually good for the size. The Adam S3X have an unhappy 2800hz XO point and have cone midrange, not AMT. This could have been the issue altogether and screwed up the violins. But the bigger models are impossible to audition here.
The various AMTs are quite different IMO, not only in the material, but also the magnet and structure. Oskar's do not use a metal nor mylar. Wonder what is. The history of ESS changing the membrane material and the results commented by people here are significant to show how a delicate mix such a transducer is.
I have already listened to the Oskar "Aulos" and found it "without defects", the only "ribbon" that I liked. The great heil (on the bigger ESS) is next, then the bigger oskar ("kithara") and when i have the chance also the Beyma is on the list. This way I can form myself a broader opinion.
PS: yes also the ICE-power amplication (used in the active ADAMs) seem not to be the ideal for the AMT.
Spikedart said:
Hard to say. But I was referring of course to the mid-highs. The bass was actually good for the size. The Adam S3X have an unhappy 2800hz XO point and have cone midrange, not AMT. This could have been the issue altogether and screwed up the violins. But the bigger models are impossible to audition here.
The various AMTs are quite different IMO, not only in the material, but also the magnet and structure. Oskar's do not use a metal nor mylar. Wonder what is. The history of ESS changing the membrane material and the results commented by people here are significant to show how a delicate mix such a transducer is.
I have already listened to the Oskar "Aulos" and found it "without defects", the only "ribbon" that I liked. The great heil (on the bigger ESS) is next, then the bigger oskar ("kithara") and when i have the chance also the Beyma is on the list. This way I can form myself a broader opinion.
PS: yes also the ICE-power amplication (used in the active ADAMs) seem not to be the ideal for the AMT.
Re: crossovers for AMT
I've got the same situation as iufan35 - a pair of AMT 3s with mismatched crossovers. There is a slight but noticeable difference in the mid / high response between the two. Are these crossovers you have for the AMT 3? If you have more than two of them (i wouldn't want to grab something that iufan35 would want) I'd buy a pair from you.
Spikedart said:
I've got the same situation as iufan35 - a pair of AMT 3s with mismatched crossovers. There is a slight but noticeable difference in the mid / high response between the two. Are these crossovers you have for the AMT 3? If you have more than two of them (i wouldn't want to grab something that iufan35 would want) I'd buy a pair from you.
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