Gees, I couldn't even find a manufacturer's site, so without even a decent description to make a guess, you'll have to measure its specs.
WRT the amp, it's bound to have a boost ckt. in it due to the tiny cab and ridiculous 5 Hz spec, so if it doesn't have a by-pass, then without knowing the details of its design about all you could do is try it to see how it affects the AWC's performance if you eventually build one.
GM
WRT the amp, it's bound to have a boost ckt. in it due to the tiny cab and ridiculous 5 Hz spec, so if it doesn't have a by-pass, then without knowing the details of its design about all you could do is try it to see how it affects the AWC's performance if you eventually build one.
GM
GM said:
i tried to get some response from sylvania a couple years back to no avail.
i figured the 5hz was either the amp response or a misprint. there is an EQ potentiometer. i keep it on 0. the sound is "linear" in this position. never run a sweep on the unit, but it seems "robust".
don't have the means to measure the parameters.
if i guess a worst case of woofer fs at 40hz and then design a tl from this, how might this work out?
Yeah, Sylvania seems to be just a name left over from bygone days.
Most cheap plate amps have a 10 Hz cut off and with a claimed 40-120 Hz adjustable XO combined with a vented alignment makes the 5 Hz spec rather curious.
Only one way to find out! If you read the AWC patent, they noted that a 2:1 compression ratio (CR) helps to damp it (true), so lacking any specs either a ~40"^2 cross sectional area (CSA) or ~80" for more gain and if its too resonant you can always damp the pipe exits to suit.
Anyway, let us know how it turns out.
GM
Most cheap plate amps have a 10 Hz cut off and with a claimed 40-120 Hz adjustable XO combined with a vented alignment makes the 5 Hz spec rather curious.
Only one way to find out! If you read the AWC patent, they noted that a 2:1 compression ratio (CR) helps to damp it (true), so lacking any specs either a ~40"^2 cross sectional area (CSA) or ~80" for more gain and if its too resonant you can always damp the pipe exits to suit.
Anyway, let us know how it turns out.
GM
GM said:
i bought 3 of these SWs 2-3 years back and they really do sound good. but there were no driver specs available. so i bought the equipment necessary to measure this according to the T-S parameter web page.
the Fs is 42 hz and the impedance is 4 ohms. the Qts is 1.07, so it should do pretty good in the TH cabinet tuned to about 20-25 hz.
the amp does have a bass boost circuit, with a center dent, which i assume is 0 since the sound is "flat" (not bombastic).
Well, like any cab alignment there's the right specs for the app, but this high a Qts combined with a 42 Hz Fs equates to only a ~22 - 65 Hz BW, which with a BP alignment means it's basically a 'one note wonder'.
Here's an early folded AWC patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=fiE-AAAAEBAJ&dq=4628528
GM
Here's an early folded AWC patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=fiE-AAAAEBAJ&dq=4628528
GM
Dunno, a single corner loaded SW works fine for many folks, but room shape, listening and speaker offset distances, etc. combined with the individual's hearing acuity affects the XO point where it draws attention to itself and for me in my room it's around 40 Hz, so at minimum I need 'stereo' subs and preferably five spread around the room to allow up to a 120 Hz XO point.
If only one is used, placing it directly in front, behind, or under the listening position works well and reduces the power demand, not to mention can go a long ways towards time aligning the SW to the mains, especially a long path-length folded horn with 360 deg. down/side firing over a phase plug being preferred in these locations.
GM
If only one is used, placing it directly in front, behind, or under the listening position works well and reduces the power demand, not to mention can go a long ways towards time aligning the SW to the mains, especially a long path-length folded horn with 360 deg. down/side firing over a phase plug being preferred in these locations.
GM
Hi GM,
I've been thinking about the multiple sub thing for a while now...
I understand how having several subs around the room 'evens out' the modes so no arguement here.
However I'm nervous that having the higher sub freq's - say 80 - 160Hz spread out in arrival times to my ears compared to the mains may be more noticable than having one corner loaded sub thats time aligned.
I remember 1 thread where we discussed how important the subs location was in its upper band (right up to ~300Hz iirc) due to the xo roll off.
Maybe I'm getting my wires crossed here ? Your thoughts?
Thanks,
Rob.
I've been thinking about the multiple sub thing for a while now...
I understand how having several subs around the room 'evens out' the modes so no arguement here.
However I'm nervous that having the higher sub freq's - say 80 - 160Hz spread out in arrival times to my ears compared to the mains may be more noticable than having one corner loaded sub thats time aligned.
I remember 1 thread where we discussed how important the subs location was in its upper band (right up to ~300Hz iirc) due to the xo roll off.
Maybe I'm getting my wires crossed here ? Your thoughts?
Thanks,
Rob.
Greets!
Movies are mixed mono below 120 Hz and music historically around 150 Hz and probably no lower than 120 Hz plus factoring in our generally poor hearing acuity below ~300 Hz, if we use multiple out of phase sources our internal processor sums them and why the long horizontal rows of mono surrounds in a large cinema sound coherent regardless of where we sit.
The key to making it work really well though is to put one sub's output up high, roughly at the golden mean both laterally and vertically to help deal with floor/ceiling modes and further average out the other room modes, so flipping a two or three fold TH upside down along the screen wall is a good plan IMO.
You're right though, if only a single sub, then things get tricky indeed and why you see THX/DD layouts with a single sub between the TV and RH main since it averages out the modes a bit and because in music the bass is normally mixed stage right, making for good coupling with the LF's mids/HF harmonics.
Anyway, Harmon Int'l. did a fairly comprehensive multiple sub study that you've probably already read, but I'll post it anyway just in case, though unfortunately only Dr. Geddes has addressed the high wall mounting AFAIK: http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf
GM
Movies are mixed mono below 120 Hz and music historically around 150 Hz and probably no lower than 120 Hz plus factoring in our generally poor hearing acuity below ~300 Hz, if we use multiple out of phase sources our internal processor sums them and why the long horizontal rows of mono surrounds in a large cinema sound coherent regardless of where we sit.
The key to making it work really well though is to put one sub's output up high, roughly at the golden mean both laterally and vertically to help deal with floor/ceiling modes and further average out the other room modes, so flipping a two or three fold TH upside down along the screen wall is a good plan IMO.
You're right though, if only a single sub, then things get tricky indeed and why you see THX/DD layouts with a single sub between the TV and RH main since it averages out the modes a bit and because in music the bass is normally mixed stage right, making for good coupling with the LF's mids/HF harmonics.
Anyway, Harmon Int'l. did a fairly comprehensive multiple sub study that you've probably already read, but I'll post it anyway just in case, though unfortunately only Dr. Geddes has addressed the high wall mounting AFAIK: http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf
GM
RobWells said:
i have 3 subs and don't have but 1 connected because that is all that is "needed", and that's not even accurate since the mains are respectable into the lower range, just not "stout". i can tell you that having 3 makes a difference even in 2.1 sound! i cross them over at about 70 hz in order to keep the midbass/lower midrange muddying effect to a minimum.
but i want to change from the smallish "cube" box to something with more "bite", with better acoustic loading into the room.
i remember a chap had a pair of klipsch gators or at least this is what he said they are. too big to fit into a room and you couldn't hear yourself think with about 1/2 watt into the things! just about as big as a small car. there is no substitute for acoustic loading after listening to these monsters!
thejknight said:I found this from another forum who linked me to this discussion. This was some good reading so far. I have been a fan of the "artistic" look of the Cannon since I first saw one at Great Adventure in NJ in the 90's.
Fast forward a decade or so and I ended up coming upon some and couldn't refuse a good deal. Hopefully ill incorporate these into my decorating in my new place. Ill be moving in a few weeks and as you can see below the Cannons pretty much fill my current living space.
Seems that folks here have mixed feelings about these subs. Ill be happy to offer mine up for testing purposes to someone local.
Thanks for the info in the previous pages and my current question is what kind of amp would y'all recommend to power 1-2 of these? No way my house needs 4!
Jason
Hallo Jason
Is it possibel for you to take one of the woofer's out and measure T/S ?
....every year 
.
I suppose a "dipolar" driver would be better with a straight tube because IME, the mechanical noise of drivers can be heard. Stuffing reduces this, but there are rare cases where careful material choice hasn't "required" stuffing.
I have a co-op/intern job so I'm doing better $$$-wise, I NEED below 40HZ! I'll post back if I still go TL.
. I suppose a "dipolar" driver would be better with a straight tube because IME, the mechanical noise of drivers can be heard. Stuffing reduces this, but there are rare cases where careful material choice hasn't "required" stuffing.
I have a co-op/intern job so I'm doing better $$$-wise, I NEED below 40HZ! I'll post back if I still go TL.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.