Now hold your tung
Raw linseed is not good for wood, It is inherently unstable like most natural raw oils and will go rancid. The boiling process creates a more stable form of linseed oil. Most commercial blends of "boiled linseed" do add some drying agents to speed curing. I still would go for a pure stand oil. The draw back being it takes a week to cure under the best of conditions.
here is a link for linseed vs. tung oils on wood gun stocks.
The Tung Oil vs. Linseed Oil finish has been raging for years.
http://www.jouster.com/Bulletin/TUNG.htm
Raw linseed is not good for wood, It is inherently unstable like most natural raw oils and will go rancid. The boiling process creates a more stable form of linseed oil. Most commercial blends of "boiled linseed" do add some drying agents to speed curing. I still would go for a pure stand oil. The draw back being it takes a week to cure under the best of conditions.
here is a link for linseed vs. tung oils on wood gun stocks.
The Tung Oil vs. Linseed Oil finish has been raging for years.
http://www.jouster.com/Bulletin/TUNG.htm
Linseed Stand Oil: Stand oil is a light-coloured, pre-polymerized linseed oil, which increases lustre and water-resistence in a paint coat. It is mainly used in fine oil painting mediums and wood finishes.
http://www.currys.com/mediums/prodinfo2.asp?SubcatID=4060&catID=1
http://www.currys.com/mediums/prodinfo2.asp?SubcatID=4060&catID=1
jdybnis said:
Damn thats some expensive oil. Shows how much research I've done. I'd listen to the others when it comes to suggestions on what type of lnseed oil to use. I started the thread and then have gotten totally side tracked. with life in general.
I have every intention of attempting to recreate the process using my memory and this thread as a guidline but it will have to wait till its warm again.
Any torch should work as long as it has a soft non-focused flame. You can buy fan tips for propane torches that would probably work fine.
have fun
I'm getting a bit lost here. Infinia, raw linseed is bad for wood? From the gun article it seems like raw oil is what the soldiers used on their gun stocks pre-WWI.
I'm reading about several different transformations to pure linseed oil. My understanding is summarized next.
(1) Oxidization happens naturally over time when the oil is exposed to air. Oxidization results in a darker finish.
(2) Polymerization is literally molecules in the oil forming long chains. How polymerization is induced and what it does to the finish I am not clear on.
(3) "Boiling" means adding solvents to accelerate drying. The solvents are toxic when heated and we are avoiding boiled linseed oil for that reason.
(4) "Standing" is a process where some amount of heat and pressure are applied to raw linseed oil for some amount of time. It makes the oil thicker. "Standing" does not polymerize the oil.
(5) The technique under discussion is different than all the above. The technique involves saturating the wood (solid maple) with raw linseed oil. The oil is heated to right below boiling when it applied. The saturated wood is then dried. When it is dry a flame is applied to it. The flame effects change in the finish. At this point the finish is stable, it is not sticky, and will not turn rancid.
bw and others,
confirmation and/or additions to the above are appreciated. I want to make sure I'm trying the right thing before I drop $50 on oil and stink up my kitchen
I'm reading about several different transformations to pure linseed oil. My understanding is summarized next.
(1) Oxidization happens naturally over time when the oil is exposed to air. Oxidization results in a darker finish.
(2) Polymerization is literally molecules in the oil forming long chains. How polymerization is induced and what it does to the finish I am not clear on.
(3) "Boiling" means adding solvents to accelerate drying. The solvents are toxic when heated and we are avoiding boiled linseed oil for that reason.
(4) "Standing" is a process where some amount of heat and pressure are applied to raw linseed oil for some amount of time. It makes the oil thicker. "Standing" does not polymerize the oil.
(5) The technique under discussion is different than all the above. The technique involves saturating the wood (solid maple) with raw linseed oil. The oil is heated to right below boiling when it applied. The saturated wood is then dried. When it is dry a flame is applied to it. The flame effects change in the finish. At this point the finish is stable, it is not sticky, and will not turn rancid.
bw and others,
confirmation and/or additions to the above are appreciated. I want to make sure I'm trying the right thing before I drop $50 on oil and stink up my kitchen
My Grandfather was a Gunsmith of note here in the Pacific NW and he used many finishes. His personal favorite was boiled Linseed oil and that's what he used on his personal guns, and he was "very" particular when it came to his guns. Not only did he air dry his stock blanks for 8-10 years in the attic of an unheated garage, but also another couple after semi-inletting them. He always believed that a correctly bedded barrel was more accurate than a floating barrel and the boiled linseed oil (contains cobalt dryers, BTW) was applyed as much to harden and stabilize the wood as it was to finish it.
The old rule of thumb for Boiled Lindseed Oil was to apply warm oil (use a double boiler) until the wood won't take any more, then sand with 320 wet/dry sand paper (my grandfather often used broken glass and scraped it instead if the wood wasn't very pourous) and then finally wipe off the excess slurry, which also fills the pores of the wood as well as taking off the whiskers that are raised by the warm oil. Do this everyday for a week and then sanding is no longer required.
So, you've applied oil every day for a week, then every week for a month and finally every month for a year. From then on, oil as needed.
As an aside, many boatbuilders used copious amounts of Boiled Lindseed oil in the construction of wooden boats as it really preserves the wood against rot.
Personally, I like the look of raw MDF with swatches of Bondo (Use several different colors of hardener!) along with a discreet application of duct tape. Very tasteful, quite elegant, and it really stands out!
Best Regards,
TerryO
The old rule of thumb for Boiled Lindseed Oil was to apply warm oil (use a double boiler) until the wood won't take any more, then sand with 320 wet/dry sand paper (my grandfather often used broken glass and scraped it instead if the wood wasn't very pourous) and then finally wipe off the excess slurry, which also fills the pores of the wood as well as taking off the whiskers that are raised by the warm oil. Do this everyday for a week and then sanding is no longer required.
So, you've applied oil every day for a week, then every week for a month and finally every month for a year. From then on, oil as needed.
As an aside, many boatbuilders used copious amounts of Boiled Lindseed oil in the construction of wooden boats as it really preserves the wood against rot.
Personally, I like the look of raw MDF with swatches of Bondo (Use several different colors of hardener!) along with a discreet application of duct tape. Very tasteful, quite elegant, and it really stands out!
Best Regards,
TerryO
TerryO said:
well what do you know. We have come full circle and it turns out my memory might have been better then I gave credit.
Thanks for the post. I had come to beleive that dad had not been using boiled oil even though that is what I remembered. I am going to try and recreate exactly what I remember right down to the cast iron pot. I'll set it up in the back yard as soon as weather permits.
lol, a man after my own heart.
To All,
Relating to Binary Whisperer's Dad techniques incorporating the heating and final flaming comes in as another way to speed up the curing.
This is would most likely involve heavy oxidization to the resulting finish, consisting of a hard yellow film sealing the wood quite well. IMHO the result can be quite lustrous and beautiful.
People that don't appreciate the yellow finish should use another method.
Hi Jdyb
I hope this helps answer your questions
1) Correct.
2) Many things induce polymerization in oil (mostly heat) it's done when the molecules no longer can cross link readily. It is called cured when the resulting film has the desired hardness and sealing properties.
3) You can get "boiled linseed oil" without the added driers (read heavy metals). For DIY what you choose depends on your personal preferences and level environtmental responsibilty. Some artists say the modern driers can make the film yellow over long periods.
4) Incorrect Stand oil is created by almost completely curing (polymerized) with a precisely controlled high temperature in an vacuum to limit the possibility of oxidization.
(5) Not really it's the same but a different process.
If you really want to boil your own I would choose cold pressed linseed oil. I think it can be had very inexpensively. Hint Buy it at your local paint shop not a health food store. I guess it would be ok to use raw linseed oil on a wood finish but it would need to be re-applied constantly as the pre-WWII soldier would do. It would take almost forever to cure and tends to attract dust and dirt.
Relating to Binary Whisperer's Dad techniques incorporating the heating and final flaming comes in as another way to speed up the curing.
This is would most likely involve heavy oxidization to the resulting finish, consisting of a hard yellow film sealing the wood quite well. IMHO the result can be quite lustrous and beautiful.
People that don't appreciate the yellow finish should use another method.
Hi Jdyb
I hope this helps answer your questions
1) Correct.
2) Many things induce polymerization in oil (mostly heat) it's done when the molecules no longer can cross link readily. It is called cured when the resulting film has the desired hardness and sealing properties.
3) You can get "boiled linseed oil" without the added driers (read heavy metals). For DIY what you choose depends on your personal preferences and level environtmental responsibilty. Some artists say the modern driers can make the film yellow over long periods.
4) Incorrect Stand oil is created by almost completely curing (polymerized) with a precisely controlled high temperature in an vacuum to limit the possibility of oxidization.
(5) Not really it's the same but a different process.
If you really want to boil your own I would choose cold pressed linseed oil. I think it can be had very inexpensively. Hint Buy it at your local paint shop not a health food store. I guess it would be ok to use raw linseed oil on a wood finish but it would need to be re-applied constantly as the pre-WWII soldier would do. It would take almost forever to cure and tends to attract dust and dirt.
So I've been gone for a bit. Partially that is because I have been enjoying summer, partially I've been busy with a variety of projects.
One of the projects relates to this thread to some small degree. We moved this spring and I decided that the living room which was 17 x 17 needed a feature wall and we needed a place to put some of our books. I used to keep fish so I thought I would get bck into that hobby as well.
So here is what I built, not quite finished in this pic. There are identical oak doors at each end of this wall making it all very balanced.
The reason for the post to this thread is that I built this out of mostly recycled (read free) oak boards that had been finished years ago with unknown materials.
I matched the color and tone of the wood using ...tada Linseed Oil and yellow shellac. Doesn't get more old school then that. It came out wicked and the entire project cost around $1000 inluding the tank and custom background that I built in the tank.
One of the projects relates to this thread to some small degree. We moved this spring and I decided that the living room which was 17 x 17 needed a feature wall and we needed a place to put some of our books. I used to keep fish so I thought I would get bck into that hobby as well.
So here is what I built, not quite finished in this pic. There are identical oak doors at each end of this wall making it all very balanced.
The reason for the post to this thread is that I built this out of mostly recycled (read free) oak boards that had been finished years ago with unknown materials.
I matched the color and tone of the wood using ...tada Linseed Oil and yellow shellac. Doesn't get more old school then that. It came out wicked and the entire project cost around $1000 inluding the tank and custom background that I built in the tank.
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