In the "budget" category I have no personal experience with external USB sound cards- only FireWire devices.
How many outputs are you looking to use?
M-Audio makes a 6 output USB interface in the 200 dollar range. Their ASIO drivers are solid. If you are looking for cheaper than that, maybe the Creative USB 5.1 card would work with ASIO4All driver?
Newegg.com - Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 SB1090 5.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz USB Interface Sound Card
Hi
Can you remind me, does the Frequency Allocator include the Phase Arbitrator?
If I buy & download it where I am (away from home), will I be able to install it on another PC?
On the laptop I would probabaly use it on, I am about to about to do a fresh install of either Win XP, or Win 7.
Which does it run better on?
And system requirements?
Thank you
Can you remind me, does the Frequency Allocator include the Phase Arbitrator?
If I buy & download it where I am (away from home), will I be able to install it on another PC?
On the laptop I would probabaly use it on, I am about to about to do a fresh install of either Win XP, or Win 7.
Which does it run better on?
And system requirements?
Thank you
Last edited:
Yes, you get Arbitrator phase correction in Allocator.
Yes, you can install it on any PC you use- the serial number doesn't expire.
As to XP vs Win 7, Allocator works just as well on either, but ASIO drivers for your sound card might be more stable on XP or 7, so it's a hardware/driver compatibility question more than Allocator's compatibility.
The requirements are fairly basic. Processor with SSE2 or SSE3 instructions built in- which is anything from Pentium 4 up or Athlon XP up, enough memory to run the OS and have about 20MB for Allocator.
If you plan on playing video or browsing the web while using Allocator, get a dual core machine and solid audio interface. The ASIO driver should offer 4096 samples long buffers or longer for smooth operation of Phase Arbitrator while other processes are using the CPU.
Allocator Light uses half the CPU cycles of full Allocator and doesn't call for long ASIO buffers.
Basically anything less than 3-4 years old will handle Allocator with ease.
What do you consider affordable?
There is a way of using more than one card, but the secret is in the card's driver not in the software accessing it. M-Audio has that ability with their PCI cards- multiple cards appear as one to the system and are perfectly sync'd.
I had an M-Audio Revo, but I don't remember anything like that.
I consider "consumer" or "prosumer" cards affordable - as opposed to the card Shinobiwan was using at the start of this thread. And if there was a way to assign channels to two cards it would be brilliant - although ASIO may prevent this (?).
I just bought an ESI Prodigy 7.1 Hifi for this purpose - two wouldn't kill me, it was $130.
The drivers are unstable (lots of BSOD!!) but once you have it working, the driver's internal routing allows me to run Allocator VST Shell with no external software.
Well it works at 16 bit. At 24 bit (or 32 bit padded) I get scratchy horrible-ness.
Does Allocator work at more than 16 bit? I haven't tried 96khz yet.
Cheers
Mark
Seems it might be the Prodigy 7.1 Hifi drivers preventing 24/32 bit from working.
On my Xonar card the Asio Control Panel button in Allocator brings up a control panel where I can select the bit depth (although sometimes it's greyed out).
But when I press that button with the Prodigy selected in Allocator, nothing happens - I think it may be stuck in 16 bit mode.
On my Xonar card the Asio Control Panel button in Allocator brings up a control panel where I can select the bit depth (although sometimes it's greyed out).
But when I press that button with the Prodigy selected in Allocator, nothing happens - I think it may be stuck in 16 bit mode.
Allocator will handle up to 32 bit float audio and internal processing is double that- 64 bit. It's possible that the ASIO driver is written to handle 16 bit audio only.
If you can find an RME PCI sound card with 2 or 3 sets of ADAT optical inputs, you can get 24 ins and outs through ADAT compatible 8-channel converters.
I have an older RME Hammerfall interface and Alesis 8x8 converter. I could easily add devices from other manufacturers as long as they accept ADAT optical connections.
The RME digi96/52 card can be found used for about 200 dollars. Converters such as the Behringer ADA800 are about 200 dollars per block of 8 ins/outs. So if you shop around, you should be able to get up to 24 outs for 800 dollars.
MOTU 2408 can handle 24 ins and outs as well and costs not a lot used
there is one on ebay now for $200 with no bids:
MOTU 2408 MkII Recording system W/ PCI 324-NO RESERVE!! - eBay (item 320619794114 end time Nov-26-10 15:46:43 PST)
Add a Behringer ADA and you have 16 outs.
If you can find an RME PCI sound card with 2 or 3 sets of ADAT optical inputs, you can get 24 ins and outs through ADAT compatible 8-channel converters.
I have an older RME Hammerfall interface and Alesis 8x8 converter. I could easily add devices from other manufacturers as long as they accept ADAT optical connections.
The RME digi96/52 card can be found used for about 200 dollars. Converters such as the Behringer ADA800 are about 200 dollars per block of 8 ins/outs. So if you shop around, you should be able to get up to 24 outs for 800 dollars.
MOTU 2408 can handle 24 ins and outs as well and costs not a lot used
there is one on ebay now for $200 with no bids:
MOTU 2408 MkII Recording system W/ PCI 324-NO RESERVE!! - eBay (item 320619794114 end time Nov-26-10 15:46:43 PST)
Add a Behringer ADA and you have 16 outs.
You can, I'm playing with that right now.
But you have to make the measurements in another package - I made them in speaker workshop.
I had terrible trouble with Allocator crashing when trying to save after importing my tweeter .frd file. You MUST delete any data in the FRD file above 22050 hz, even if Allocator is set to 48khz.
Thunau, is this the correct workflow?
- Active the number of filters you need (say 2 way).
- Import your driver .FRD files - I had to add 20db in SpeakerWorkshop to get the curves up high enough to see them - Allocator can only offset them down. Also delete any data in the FRD file above 22050hz.
- Play around with the curves and filters to get an idea what crossover slopes will work, and importantly, sum positively.
- Use Phase Arbitrator to set the "goal curves" that you will equalise your drivers towards. My understanding is it's critical to match these curves as closely as possible (but be wary of too much boosting), as if the curves don't match, the driver phase will not be able to be "unwrapped" by Arbitrator. I think this is fundamental.
The allocator part is minimum phase, so if you get the curves right, the phase should be textbook, and therefore correctable by Arbitrator.
- The bit I don't understand is delay. My measurements were done with the microphone in the same location, in a single session. But the drivers are not time aligned.
Do I need to guestimate the delay distance (maybe 30mm), or should I leave delays at zero?
Fiddling with the delay number does not affect the summation of the crossover, but to my mind it should.
I'm finding it quite easy to use, I only bought it yesterday and today I have a crossover I want to try for real - first with two sets of expendable PC speakers, then with the real drivers, but with a really big cap protecting the tweeter.
Thanks
Mark
- Active the number of filters you need (say 2 way).
- Import your driver .FRD files - I had to add 20db in SpeakerWorkshop to get the curves up high enough to see them - Allocator can only offset them down. Also delete any data in the FRD file above 22050hz.
- Play around with the curves and filters to get an idea what crossover slopes will work, and importantly, sum positively.
- Use Phase Arbitrator to set the "goal curves" that you will equalise your drivers towards. My understanding is it's critical to match these curves as closely as possible (but be wary of too much boosting), as if the curves don't match, the driver phase will not be able to be "unwrapped" by Arbitrator. I think this is fundamental.
The allocator part is minimum phase, so if you get the curves right, the phase should be textbook, and therefore correctable by Arbitrator.
- The bit I don't understand is delay. My measurements were done with the microphone in the same location, in a single session. But the drivers are not time aligned.
Do I need to guestimate the delay distance (maybe 30mm), or should I leave delays at zero?
Fiddling with the delay number does not affect the summation of the crossover, but to my mind it should.
I'm finding it quite easy to use, I only bought it yesterday and today I have a crossover I want to try for real - first with two sets of expendable PC speakers, then with the real drivers, but with a really big cap protecting the tweeter.
Thanks
Mark
I got 32 bit (padded) working. I just had to battle through repeated BSODs caused by the Prodigy drivers - they are WOEFUL.
I've now got two pairs of PC speakers on the desk, everything is working, tomorrow I will try for real with the proper speakers.
But I can't get 96kz working - the sound is all crackly. This is not an Allocator issue, the problem exists when going straight from Foobar or JRMC, to the soundcard via Prodigy ASIO.
I don't think the ASIO Buffers are big enough. The max buffer size on the Prodigy card is 1024 samples. The Xonar uses 8192 samples by default.
Grrr....crap drivers.
Mark and others,
Please register (actually send me an email with your desired user name) on my support forum and ask these questions there.
I don't check here that regularly, plus I don't want to impose on diyaudio.com and risk being looked at as conducting business in non commercial forum.
Jan
Please register (actually send me an email with your desired user name) on my support forum and ask these questions there.
I don't check here that regularly, plus I don't want to impose on diyaudio.com and risk being looked at as conducting business in non commercial forum.
Jan
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