Well, if large drivers and massive output must be the principal of this design, the first woofer to cross my mind would be the McCauley Sound 6174. I know I've mentioned this driver more than once recently, and it's not because I'm biased towards it for any reason whatsoever, as I've never personally heard it. Rather, after observing its specifications, I found them extremely admirable, to say the least. After a bit of simulation and modeling of this subwoofer for simple ported designs, I became very interested in it. It really seems to be in a league of its own. I'd absolutely love to hear any successful design based on this woofer. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of info or designs out there, at least as far as I'm aware. I haven't really found any. But McCauley does have a very solid reputation in the professional industry, and there are a few out there that have heard this driver with great things said about it. I believe they're around $800 each, but you'd be silly to put this option aside simply because of the price...because IMO, it's highly likely that it'd be very worth it, if you have the money and desire for such a project.
So, if I were you, I'd try to gather some info on this driver and see what types of designs would work well with it. If it's not suitable for some kind of massive high output horn, forget the 6174 and look elsewhere. But if it is, obtain more information regarding that, and if all seems well, build 2 or 4 of 'em...although 1 would probably be overkill.
If and when you find a design for this woofer, and if you even decide to go this route... I believe the only place I've seen this woofer for sale is at Speaker City, speakercity.com. However, the first thing I'd do is call and speak to McCauley directly and locate the nearest dealer that carries the 6174.
http://www.mccauleysound.com/component_overview.cfm?ID=126
http://www.mccauleysound.com/component_specifications.cfm?ID=126
I'm guessing that just about any successful design done properly, utilizing this woofer, is very likely to give you what you want. Well, several of them though, of course.
So, if I were you, I'd try to gather some info on this driver and see what types of designs would work well with it. If it's not suitable for some kind of massive high output horn, forget the 6174 and look elsewhere. But if it is, obtain more information regarding that, and if all seems well, build 2 or 4 of 'em...although 1 would probably be overkill.
If and when you find a design for this woofer, and if you even decide to go this route... I believe the only place I've seen this woofer for sale is at Speaker City, speakercity.com. However, the first thing I'd do is call and speak to McCauley directly and locate the nearest dealer that carries the 6174.
http://www.mccauleysound.com/component_overview.cfm?ID=126
http://www.mccauleysound.com/component_specifications.cfm?ID=126
I'm guessing that just about any successful design done properly, utilizing this woofer, is very likely to give you what you want. Well, several of them though, of course.
I have been very interested in this woofer in the past..
as i've also noticed it's nice specs and it seems to be very high standard quality wise..
but as you, this is just personal feeling
i've talked in the past to some people using this woofer in arrays for outdoor stuff
and one compay ( would have to check the name )
told me that they recently swticed to custom drivers from local Belisle accoustics , and they have the same result for alot less of money
the 6174 can be purchased for aroun 500$ each
that was the best deal i found
i'd have to play with it in hornresp, if i can understand this software someday
need time to play with it more
What is the horn design wich will give best compromises for bass horn??
as i've also noticed it's nice specs and it seems to be very high standard quality wise..
but as you, this is just personal feeling
i've talked in the past to some people using this woofer in arrays for outdoor stuff
and one compay ( would have to check the name )
told me that they recently swticed to custom drivers from local Belisle accoustics , and they have the same result for alot less of money
the 6174 can be purchased for aroun 500$ each
that was the best deal i found
i'd have to play with it in hornresp, if i can understand this software someday
need time to play with it more
What is the horn design wich will give best compromises for bass horn??
Yeah, TRansparence..right?
I just skimmed through them, didn't find anything remotely similar.
http://www.tr.ca/2006/english/products/loudspeakers/loudspeakers.htm
On the other hand though, 2 of my 4 Ascendant Avalanche 15's will beat a single one of these McCauleys by a pretty fair margin, both with extension and output with less excursion (from drivers that have nearly twice as much excursion as the 6174 too)...all in A LOT less space than a single one of these McCauleys takes up. 13.369 cubic ft for the 6174 versus 8.146 cubic feet for the two Avalanches. Maximum output capability in the lower freq's is greater with the AVA15's. As for running all 4 of them versus a single 6174...well, there's no comparison.
Keep in mind, however, this is all just simulation of basic reflex enclosures, and there's a plethora of 'better' drivers for applications like this out there. But with other types of designs, my Ascendants can't do it. With TL's for example, the 15 Hz FS is usually too low for a sane box size that isn't the size of an entire garage. As for doing horns with them, I have no idea...but I'm assuming they'd be far from the best. As for the McCauley and horns, I have no idea about that either..
I just skimmed through them, didn't find anything remotely similar.
http://www.tr.ca/2006/english/products/loudspeakers/loudspeakers.htm
On the other hand though, 2 of my 4 Ascendant Avalanche 15's will beat a single one of these McCauleys by a pretty fair margin, both with extension and output with less excursion (from drivers that have nearly twice as much excursion as the 6174 too)...all in A LOT less space than a single one of these McCauleys takes up. 13.369 cubic ft for the 6174 versus 8.146 cubic feet for the two Avalanches. Maximum output capability in the lower freq's is greater with the AVA15's. As for running all 4 of them versus a single 6174...well, there's no comparison.
Keep in mind, however, this is all just simulation of basic reflex enclosures, and there's a plethora of 'better' drivers for applications like this out there. But with other types of designs, my Ascendants can't do it. With TL's for example, the 15 Hz FS is usually too low for a sane box size that isn't the size of an entire garage. As for doing horns with them, I have no idea...but I'm assuming they'd be far from the best. As for the McCauley and horns, I have no idea about that either..
You need both massive length,corner loading,and large mouth area for efficient 20hz. See examples. A large tapped horn could be of use but I havent followed the latest threads on it.
http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm
http://www.geocities.com/xobt/basshorns/basshorns.htm
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm
well nice...
but i have already seen all of those ..
What i need to know now,
is what can be done with a 9high by 5 wide by ~7' deep spot for the horn ..
do i need to use more than one driver on each horn to get the best possible result ?
total displacement of air is what we are looking for in a sub-bass horn ?
how to design the horn ...??
i can imagine folding and everything...that is no problem to me ..but designing it's accoustical properties, there i will need help!
but i have already seen all of those ..
What i need to know now,
is what can be done with a 9high by 5 wide by ~7' deep spot for the horn ..
do i need to use more than one driver on each horn to get the best possible result ?
total displacement of air is what we are looking for in a sub-bass horn ?
how to design the horn ...??
i can imagine folding and everything...that is no problem to me ..but designing it's accoustical properties, there i will need help!
MJK has what you need...JinMTVT said:how to design the horn ...??
i can imagine folding and everything...that is no problem to me ..but designing it's accoustical properties, there i will need help!
...at $25 a year.But for 20Hz, don't you need an 18 foot long horn with a 9 foot (round diameter) mouth? That's some serious volume being taken up (unless you have an unused cupboard/attic/cellar next to your room) for a low octave...
Cloth Ears said:
MJK has what you need...
But for 20Hz, don't you need an 18 foot long horn with a 9 foot (round diameter) mouth? That's some serious volume being taken up (unless you have an unused cupboard/attic/cellar next to your room) for a low octave...
what do you mean for MJK's sheets?
they can be used to model what i need?
9 by 5 ( 45 square foot mouths ) will have to do with that limitation ..but i have space for 2 of those
i could gain 2 feet almost if someone can tell me that it is possible to install the front loudspeakers in front of the horn mouth with some rouded design at the back wihtout affecting both systems
I haven't used either of the horn sheets, but I believe Scottmoose and Planet10 (try the fullrange forum) have. The 9' diameter was for a full-length 20Hz horn, but (looking through MJK's documentation) this isn't strictly required.JinMTVT said:
But horns aren't by bag, really. Try posting (or searching for) big bass horn on the full range and see if anything turns up.
JinMTVT said:
what do you mean for MJK's sheets?
they can be used to model what i need?
9 by 5 ( 45 square foot mouths ) will have to do with that limitation ..but i have space for 2 of those
i could gain 2 feet almost if someone can tell me that it is possible to install the front loudspeakers in front of the horn mouth with some rouded design at the back wihtout affecting both systems
If you have more drivers/cone area,the horn doesnt have to be as long.
Id get some one to design it for you with HORNRESP or mathcad.It looks like tapped horns are an option.
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/matterhorn.htm
This what I meant. but maybe a bit smaller!
A huge tapped horn with something like four 18inch drivers or 12 12inch drivers.
I think multiple Eminence LAB12 would work good in a 15 Hz tapped horn
This what I meant. but maybe a bit smaller!
A huge tapped horn with something like four 18inch drivers or 12 12inch drivers.
I think multiple Eminence LAB12 would work good in a 15 Hz tapped horn
Circlomanen said:http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/matterhorn.htm
This what I meant. but maybe a bit smaller!
A huge tapped horn with something like four 18inch drivers or 12 12inch drivers.
I think multiple Eminence LAB12 would work good in a 15 Hz tapped horn
ahhaha
that is ...euh ok
so Circlo ..cut it short for me please
what can i do with 10cubic meters time 2 ?
show me possibilities ..and what you'd do for your ultimate HT ..and i'll just do it
I still don't quite get what is the point of using front and rear waves out of a woofer in a tapped horn
isn't the backwave delayed alot when it gets back to the front ???
i thought that the best possible quality sound from a horn would be from a front loaded, rear absorbed/vented/infinite system ..
isn't it correct?
JinMTVT said:
A back-loaded horn uses both the front of the woofer and the basshorn of the back to produce the sound. The tapped horn seems to use the same idea but within the enclosure rather than have it happen outside (as with transmission lines, reflex enclosures, etc). It could be a way of controlling it better. It could also be a sort of 4-th order bandpass (maybe 6-th).
I'm not a proponent yet, but it's an interesting concept.
Maybe you could build a front-loaded horn loaded to half-length, but instead of using a sealed box as the rear enclosure you could build a reflex enclosure and have the reflex ports load the horn near the mouth. I might try to see what happens with this (on the weekend... soon, soon!)
Lindell said:
I use two of those in my hifi-system. With a Velodyne SMS-1 to do some active EQ-ing and 2x 700 watts of Class-D power I can get them flat down to 15Hz using only 90 litres closed box each.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Geenius said:
I use two of those in my hifi-system. With a Velodyne SMS-1 to do some active EQ-ing and 2x 700 watts of Class-D power I can get them flat down to 15Hz using only 90 litres closed box each.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Massive....
Geenius said:
I use two of those in my hifi-system. With a Velodyne SMS-1 to do some active EQ-ing and 2x 700 watts of Class-D power I can get them flat down to 15Hz using only 90 litres closed box each.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
at what db ? size of your room?
My listening room is about 45m2, ceiling height about 2,7 metres. The only time I have seen any cone excursion is when playing movies with lots of low frequency information, like explosions and dinosaurs. Even then it was no where near X-max.
The lowpass crossover is set at 45Hz/24dB. After EQ-ing the flat SPL in the bass range is then about 85dB/2,83V/1m. Two sub's increase efficiency.
The lowpass crossover is set at 45Hz/24dB. After EQ-ing the flat SPL in the bass range is then about 85dB/2,83V/1m. Two sub's increase efficiency.
Perhaps if you want awesome lfe buy a pair of TRW-17 subwoofers from Eminnent Technology. Flat response to DC, SERIOUSLY.
have your mains cross at 40 hz and run one TRW on each channel for stereo bass, if 115 db below 10 hz doesnt move you you should check your pulse.
Horns feel awesome because they move sooo much air, like real low frequency events.
LFE that sounds and feels real is a low pressure movement of a huge amount of air.
Heres the review: http://www.iar-80.com/page142.html
Google TRW-17 review and take the time to read the full review there. Theres a fellow on these forums who owns one, ask him if he needs better LFE, i think i can tell you the answer.
have your mains cross at 40 hz and run one TRW on each channel for stereo bass, if 115 db below 10 hz doesnt move you you should check your pulse.
Horns feel awesome because they move sooo much air, like real low frequency events.
LFE that sounds and feels real is a low pressure movement of a huge amount of air.
Heres the review: http://www.iar-80.com/page142.html
Google TRW-17 review and take the time to read the full review there. Theres a fellow on these forums who owns one, ask him if he needs better LFE, i think i can tell you the answer.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.