ok
as recommended by you guys,
i just spent some time looking for how bass horn works and all ..
i've seen most of what nobody constructs..
it seems that there is a lot of talk going on about bass horns, but nobody is actually building anything!
i've looked at the " punisher" type folded horn
tapped horn ( why the work tapped?? )
why is the rear of the driver sealed?
can't we use i to reinforce ?
shouldn't it be vented out of the box or absorbed in some stuffed chamber to let the driver work easier?
as a horn matches the mechanical impedance of the driver to the air, we can use some very stiff drivers without problem ?
what about distortion ? i guess that greater efficiency
with the same driver equals to less distortion ??
as recommended by you guys,
i just spent some time looking for how bass horn works and all ..
i've seen most of what nobody constructs..
it seems that there is a lot of talk going on about bass horns, but nobody is actually building anything!
i've looked at the " punisher" type folded horn
tapped horn ( why the work tapped?? )
why is the rear of the driver sealed?
can't we use i to reinforce ?
shouldn't it be vented out of the box or absorbed in some stuffed chamber to let the driver work easier?
as a horn matches the mechanical impedance of the driver to the air, we can use some very stiff drivers without problem ?
what about distortion ? i guess that greater efficiency
with the same driver equals to less distortion ??
Yes, about 4000 liters.
Se my post about my latest Tapped horn. post 515.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1262645#post1262645
Yes! A lot better loading of the cone equals better efficiency and much lower distortion for any given spl. With my single Beyma12LX60 in a tapped horn i can play the Darla-tapps-tank scene in Finding Nemo about 10 dB louder than with my old sub, (Beyma 15K200 in 220 liter BR) and probably one tenth of the distortion. It just sounds so dynamic and clean in a very effortless way.
ah ..not that big
i have mucho space if i can plan in advance ...
at max i'll just make some more space outside of the house in the fondations to plan for that
i could also have some kind of hole in the groun under where the bass will sit
that would let me make bigger box without takin much more space
now onto details
i've looked at your latest Circlo ...
nice size
but i don't understand why the driver just sits there, with the backwave going straight out of the box..
how do you time/use the backwave?
wouldn't it be better is the driver was in the correct plane, and the rear of it absorbed ? or sealed?
i very like the idea of bass horns
if it gives more power with less distortion
( cie : better performance )
it needs to be in my HT room
i have mucho space if i can plan in advance ...
at max i'll just make some more space outside of the house in the fondations to plan for that
i could also have some kind of hole in the groun under where the bass will sit
that would let me make bigger box without takin much more space
now onto details
i've looked at your latest Circlo ...
nice size
but i don't understand why the driver just sits there, with the backwave going straight out of the box..
how do you time/use the backwave?
wouldn't it be better is the driver was in the correct plane, and the rear of it absorbed ? or sealed?
i very like the idea of bass horns
if it gives more power with less distortion
( cie : better performance )
it needs to be in my HT room
JinMTVT said:ah ..not that big
i have mucho space if i can plan in advance ...
at max i'll just make some more space outside of the house in the fondations to plan for that
i could also have some kind of hole in the groun under where the bass will sit
that would let me make bigger box without takin much more space
now onto details
i've looked at your latest Circlo ...
nice size
but i don't understand why the driver just sits there, with the backwave going straight out of the box..
how do you time/use the backwave?
wouldn't it be better is the driver was in the correct plane, and the rear of it absorbed ? or sealed?
i very like the idea of bass horns
if it gives more power with less distortion
( cie : better performance )
it needs to be in my HT room
In Circlomanen's "tapped-horn" .. the driver is loaded (supported) by both the front wave and the back wave, unlike a conventional sub horn where the back wave is constrained by a back-chamber .
This reduces distortion, at a slight loss of efficiency (not something to worry about).
i ahve looked it some more
i cannot understand how you get those results Circlo ...
as i said, you got me interested!
if it gives a better result than regular sealed or vented boxes ... i'm all in
and since i have a room built specifically for that purpose, i could even use the walls for something..or plan some extrusions in the wall for the horns
would need 2 though ..one on each side
i want stereo bass
i cannot understand how you get those results Circlo ...
as i said, you got me interested!
if it gives a better result than regular sealed or vented boxes ... i'm all in
and since i have a room built specifically for that purpose, i could even use the walls for something..or plan some extrusions in the wall for the horns
would need 2 though ..one on each side
i want stereo bass
Hi,
Didn't you hash out all of the details of your home theater back in April with this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100195
Have you started construction on this house yet? Sounds like it's still in the dreaming...er, planning stage.
Didn't you hash out all of the details of your home theater back in April with this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100195
Have you started construction on this house yet? Sounds like it's still in the dreaming...er, planning stage.
How is the house coming by the way? I read through the other thread about planning that you started back in April, and I was very fascinated.
Did you decide to build the interior room like dave (planet-10) designed? It looked really well done and should make a great HT room.
If you did, I would suggest putting the stereo bass enclosures outside of the acoustic treated area inside the room, bolted/secured to the walls. Two vented enclosures with two of your 21" customs each would probably sound fantastic. I assume you played around with WinISD using specs you got from your manufacturer/specs you told them you wanted so you should be able to design something you are really happy with.
OTOH, with all the space you have available you could go with 2 horns such that the mouth pokes out into the room with the enclosures behind the acoustical walls in the rear. The options seem pretty endless! We will all want pictures I'm sure
Good luck.
Did you decide to build the interior room like dave (planet-10) designed? It looked really well done and should make a great HT room.
If you did, I would suggest putting the stereo bass enclosures outside of the acoustic treated area inside the room, bolted/secured to the walls. Two vented enclosures with two of your 21" customs each would probably sound fantastic. I assume you played around with WinISD using specs you got from your manufacturer/specs you told them you wanted
so you should be able to design something you are really happy with.OTOH, with all the space you have available you could go with 2 horns such that the mouth pokes out into the room with the enclosures behind the acoustical walls in the rear. The options seem pretty endless! We will all want pictures I'm sure
Good luck.
hi all!
thanks for following my story
The house is currently in the planning stage
( planning as i am doing it all in 3d..even down to plumbing and electrical .. )
still got a lot of work to do, and i am very late as always
( got 2 buisness ( 1 recently new ) to take care of ,
so time is a hard ressource here ..12hours +/day, 6 days week only for work..so i gotta use the rest to relax, sleep and then plan the house )
Yes it is still of the same kind of construction,
and i decided 95% to use all www.quad-lock.com system
for the ICF, floors and stuff ..
The theater room has been decided on total size
wich is 25' by 20' of interior space
all walls and ceiling will consist of :
2"poly foam, 8" concrete, 2"poly foam
( ceiling is more like 2-3" foam and 3-4" concrete .. )
I will make this room pretty square, and then i'll add on some forms to the interior to get a good shap, something probably like Dave suggested
now where it comes back to this thread ..
is that i have alot of possibilities for the bass subwoofer
as i stated before, the budget is not limitless, but i won't spare a few 100$ on something that doesn't give the best possible performance
so the more i read about it, the more i want to look more into HORNS before i complete the design of the room so i can incorporate some special walls or parts in the room that could comprise the horn
Only seen the mouths would be mmm ..delightfull
i'll try and take a few moments later tonight, if i have some..to make a quick layup of the house and the HT room to give you a quick idea
the house will be rectangular in form,
and will be 70' long by 35' large at it's maximum...
What do i need to know about the horns?
i still haven't found any site or reading that describes accuratly all the important points of bass horn
( well all horns have the same principles nah ? )
and what are the limitations ( i still wonder about timing and phase...since it's a long way ffrom the front of the driver to the mouth )
and still wondering what kind of size i'll need to get something like Circlo pointed on his graph
thanks for following my story
The house is currently in the planning stage
( planning as i am doing it all in 3d..even down to plumbing and electrical .. )
still got a lot of work to do, and i am very late as always
( got 2 buisness ( 1 recently new ) to take care of ,
so time is a hard ressource here ..12hours +/day, 6 days week only for work..so i gotta use the rest to relax, sleep and then plan the house
)Yes it is still of the same kind of construction,
and i decided 95% to use all www.quad-lock.com system
for the ICF, floors and stuff ..
The theater room has been decided on total size
wich is 25' by 20' of interior space
all walls and ceiling will consist of :
2"poly foam, 8" concrete, 2"poly foam
( ceiling is more like 2-3" foam and 3-4" concrete .. )
I will make this room pretty square, and then i'll add on some forms to the interior to get a good shap, something probably like Dave suggested
now where it comes back to this thread ..
is that i have alot of possibilities for the bass subwoofer
as i stated before, the budget is not limitless, but i won't spare a few 100$ on something that doesn't give the best possible performance
so the more i read about it, the more i want to look more into HORNS before i complete the design of the room so i can incorporate some special walls or parts in the room that could comprise the horn
Only seen the mouths would be mmm ..delightfull
i'll try and take a few moments later tonight, if i have some..to make a quick layup of the house and the HT room to give you a quick idea
the house will be rectangular in form,
and will be 70' long by 35' large at it's maximum...
What do i need to know about the horns?
i still haven't found any site or reading that describes accuratly all the important points of bass horn
( well all horns have the same principles nah ? )
and what are the limitations ( i still wonder about timing and phase...since it's a long way ffrom the front of the driver to the mouth )
and still wondering what kind of size i'll need to get something like Circlo pointed on his graph
Re. some brief info on horns / bass horns, . .
Try
http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/index.php?page=Loudspeaker
and
http://www.volvotreter.de/
and
http://diy.cowanaudio.com/
and
http://www.melhuish.org/audio/horn.html
There are a lot of experts on these forums (not me) if you have any specific questions.
Try
http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/index.php?page=Loudspeaker
and
http://www.volvotreter.de/
and
http://diy.cowanaudio.com/
and
http://www.melhuish.org/audio/horn.html
There are a lot of experts on these forums (not me) if you have any specific questions.
well the ceiling of the room is actually the floor of the living room just on top of it
the way it works is that we lay up foam "hollowcores" type of forms, wich are self supported ( some basic metal joists embedded in them ) on wich we pour the concrete to form some concrete joists and the concrete floor all at once ...
all that has to be supported by shoring for 10days
after pouring of course
the floor and it's joists will be poured at the same time as the walls of the floor under them, giving a complete solid form from the walls to the floor of the upper room
and since i am going for a flat roof with a terrasse on it..it should be the same way for all the 3 floors
( basement ..but will really be only 1 feet in the ground..i'll have to burry it's sides later on .. then first and second floor )
http://www.quadlock.com/products/quad-deck.htm
here you can see more info on the flooring system
check their pages..they have a few interesting videos
the way it works is that we lay up foam "hollowcores" type of forms, wich are self supported ( some basic metal joists embedded in them ) on wich we pour the concrete to form some concrete joists and the concrete floor all at once ...
all that has to be supported by shoring for 10days
after pouring of course
the floor and it's joists will be poured at the same time as the walls of the floor under them, giving a complete solid form from the walls to the floor of the upper room
and since i am going for a flat roof with a terrasse on it..it should be the same way for all the 3 floors
( basement ..but will really be only 1 feet in the ground..i'll have to burry it's sides later on .. then first and second floor )
http://www.quadlock.com/products/quad-deck.htm
here you can see more info on the flooring system
check their pages..they have a few interesting videos
ok have no time tonight doing pics and all
but i've checked my things a bit ..
on the 20' large front
i have to fit a 100to 110' wide screen
then i'd say about 12 to 15" large front speakers
all the rest could be used for the horns
so that would give approximatly
5' large by 9' high of maximum horn mouth
i can make 2 big cavities behind the room with the concrete wall ICF technique...probable could get something like 6' wide by 6-7' of depth..
that could be used to put in the driver and folded horn system on each side
and then the mouths could be a different part
that would just snap ( bolt on or whatever fastening system ) on front of the rest
is thast sufficient place to build something as pointed by Cerclo ?
that would make approximatly 10cubic meter for each horn of total space ( maximum theorically )
but i've checked my things a bit ..
on the 20' large front
i have to fit a 100to 110' wide screen
then i'd say about 12 to 15" large front speakers
all the rest could be used for the horns
so that would give approximatly
5' large by 9' high of maximum horn mouth
i can make 2 big cavities behind the room with the concrete wall ICF technique...probable could get something like 6' wide by 6-7' of depth..
that could be used to put in the driver and folded horn system on each side
and then the mouths could be a different part
that would just snap ( bolt on or whatever fastening system ) on front of the rest
is thast sufficient place to build something as pointed by Cerclo ?
that would make approximatly 10cubic meter for each horn of total space ( maximum theorically )
Here are some ready designed home theater horn subs (best utilized in the corners), if you don't want to go through all the calculations involved in building your own.
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/TT.html
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/THT.html
As I mentioned some time ago, . which ever way you decide to go, build the sub first and test it out before you go and make it a permanent install.
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/TT.html
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/THT.html
As I mentioned some time ago, . which ever way you decide to go, build the sub first and test it out before you go and make it a permanent install.
zobsky said:
sorry but this is way too small
i have 10cubic meters to fill,
so i won't be doing some understable compromised sub
and my wife ain't doing nothing to stop me
so this is supposed to be my ULTIMATE HT
i'll need to learn the maths to do it properly
and i won't be able to test 10 cubic meter elsewhere before installing them for sure
so it'll have to be pretty bullet proof from start
but i don't think that the softwares available will have much difficulty calculating some conical horn nah ?
Re: Bill Fitzmaurice Tuba HT
Well sorry if it sound harsh ..not my point at all
but i've heard alot of different subwoofer
( none from a horn type though )
and as was pointed by many users before,
size does matter ...
since i have the posisbility, why limit myself?
BHTX said:
10 cubic meters, eh? That's only a little over 1/3 the size of the ridiculously small 1 bedroom apartment I used to live in.
Wow. That's a pretty harsh statement for a design you've never heard. I wouldn't underestimate it so badly.
Good luck.
Well sorry if it sound harsh ..not my point at all
but i've heard alot of different subwoofer
( none from a horn type though )
and as was pointed by many users before,
size does matter ...
since i have the posisbility, why limit myself?
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