mmm, thats interesting. See I was strongly considering buying a set of FE206 and putting them in one of the bigger designs from the site. What you're saying now makes me wonder should I use the FE207 instead.
Its a pity I don't have some FE126 here that I could try in the boxes seeing as that was what they were originally intended for.
the quest continues!
Fran
Ps. on a side note can you think of what I should check first on the fonkens I built?
Its a pity I don't have some FE126 here that I could try in the boxes seeing as that was what they were originally intended for.
the quest continues!
Fran
Ps. on a side note can you think of what I should check first on the fonkens I built?
3D Spiral horn speaker design
Hi jkeny,
Have you checked out the info in this post from a few years ago?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=64892
jkeny said:
Hi jkeny,
Have you checked out the info in this post from a few years ago?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=64892
Thanks Scratchy,
here I am re-inventing the wheel when the ground has already been well tilled! Good info even the mathematical Helmhotz resonance formulas!
Pity I didn't know about this before Fran built the two pairs of speakers! Maybe could have optimised box size, dimensions, etc. Some of you even posted on that thread!
And no, the linked thread doesn't appear in a search for 3D spirals
here I am re-inventing the wheel when the ground has already been well tilled! Good info even the mathematical Helmhotz resonance formulas!
Pity I didn't know about this before Fran built the two pairs of speakers! Maybe could have optimised box size, dimensions, etc. Some of you even posted on that thread!
And no, the linked thread doesn't appear in a search for 3D spirals
Well the small ones sounded good enough so I've asked madisound for a shipping quote for some FE206E to me here in Ireland. USPS has it at $90 for shipping - ouch! 
His graphs show good output down to 30Hz which would be amazing! So I'm hoping that I get to keep nearly all of that clarity for a little more warmth low down. I'm also hoping that the physically bigger driver will suit my largish room a bit better.
Some of you guys who have these drivers sitting around should build a pair of these - its a great experiment. i honestly don't have the technical knowledge to discuss how it works, but it does.
Fran
His graphs show good output down to 30Hz which would be amazing! So I'm hoping that I get to keep nearly all of that clarity for a little more warmth low down. I'm also hoping that the physically bigger driver will suit my largish room a bit better.
Some of you guys who have these drivers sitting around should build a pair of these - its a great experiment. i honestly don't have the technical knowledge to discuss how it works, but it does.
Fran
Wilmslow has them at STG£68 which works out at €89. Madisound has them at $88 which is €56. The whole order from madisound including 2 inductors and some resistors and shipping works out at €180.
Just the 2 drivers from wilmslow is €180. From what I can see madisound is cheaper by a fair distance. I've also looked at german and european distributors and the story is the same.
Fran
Just the 2 drivers from wilmslow is €180. From what I can see madisound is cheaper by a fair distance. I've also looked at german and european distributors and the story is the same.
Fran
Solen.ca also carries the FE206E.
They even have a Back Loaded Horn Type Enclosure design posted here:
http://www.solen.ca/v1/pics/fostex/fe206e_enc.pdf
Their International list price is $94.85 US
http://www.solen.ca/v1/pdf/fosusd.pdf
They even have a Back Loaded Horn Type Enclosure design posted here:
http://www.solen.ca/v1/pics/fostex/fe206e_enc.pdf
Their International list price is $94.85 US
http://www.solen.ca/v1/pdf/fosusd.pdf
OK, we had a recent DIYA Irish meeting, at which lots of equipment was auditioned. The two main speakers that we heard with various amplifiers were the Fe126E Fonkens & the Jordan JX92S 3D spiral horns.
The Fonkens now sound fantastic, since the padding that was blocking the port was removed, - the bass now goes down low & sounds natural. The highs are also great but with just the slightest tendency to harshness when pushed hard.
The Jordans, on the other hand, just don't go as low as the Fonkens but they focus your attention on the fluid & civilised mid-range & nvere seem to get flustered.
We tried a number of amplifiers - Panasonic digital, Pass Aleph, Airtight integrated and this was my general opinion between the two types of speakers.
The Fonken towers sounded more disjointed between top & bottom end even though they went lower than the standmount Fonkens
The Fonkens now sound fantastic, since the padding that was blocking the port was removed, - the bass now goes down low & sounds natural. The highs are also great but with just the slightest tendency to harshness when pushed hard.
The Jordans, on the other hand, just don't go as low as the Fonkens but they focus your attention on the fluid & civilised mid-range & nvere seem to get flustered.
We tried a number of amplifiers - Panasonic digital, Pass Aleph, Airtight integrated and this was my general opinion between the two types of speakers.
The Fonken towers sounded more disjointed between top & bottom end even though they went lower than the standmount Fonkens
Yes, I think all of us there would more or less agree on jkeny's report. I will add that in all cases I used a BSC circuit with the fonkens. the floorstanders definitely do go lower but they don't image as well and do exhibit some of the disjointed thing that jkeny mentioned. I'm not sure if maybe better positioning could help that a fair bit.
In short its probably much of a muchness which you go for. The jordans are certainly very smooth performers (and without a BSC), never ruffled and never showed any strain no matter what we threw at them. At higher levels the FE127E could get harsh, but for my set up that was probably louder than I would realistically ever use them. They are not as smooth as the jordans though. jkeny has mentioned that the jordans didn't go as low, but the 3D horn boxes are smaller than the fonkens so that may play a part.
As I write this I'm trying to get to the nub of the 2 speakers. In truth, I think the jordans are the better driver but that the fonkens are the better box. Does that make any sense to anyone!!!!
BTW, just to put things in perspective, both of these speakers were really pitched against my ESL57s and would put many commercial offerings under pressure. Either sound really great.
Fran
In short its probably much of a muchness which you go for. The jordans are certainly very smooth performers (and without a BSC), never ruffled and never showed any strain no matter what we threw at them. At higher levels the FE127E could get harsh, but for my set up that was probably louder than I would realistically ever use them. They are not as smooth as the jordans though. jkeny has mentioned that the jordans didn't go as low, but the 3D horn boxes are smaller than the fonkens so that may play a part.
As I write this I'm trying to get to the nub of the 2 speakers. In truth, I think the jordans are the better driver but that the fonkens are the better box. Does that make any sense to anyone!!!!
BTW, just to put things in perspective, both of these speakers were really pitched against my ESL57s and would put many commercial offerings under pressure. Either sound really great.
Fran
Zombie Thread Alert:
Well after a bit of a break from making some speakers - and with a pair of FE206 looking over forlornly at me every now and then I started last night to make some of the bigger 3-D spiral horns. For anyone not intune with the story here, I made a set of these for jkeny and he equipped them with some JX92S and boy do they sound great. It was all the more surprising because the cabinet design was really for the FE126 but the sound really is great. Very civilised etc etc etc.
So at the time I bought a pair of FE206... but never got around to building them.
Now making up cabinets is a bit of a PITA - or rather finishing them is. Just so happened a friend had given me some old B&W DM220 speaker that had a woofer gone. So out with the measuring tape and it turns out the cabs for these are the right height and width but a little too high for the AG280Z design. Shame to leave them there though, and worse, me have to make new cabinets. So I decided to cheat a little and I fitted a spiral horn insert. My thinking is that the extra amount of material inside will help make up for the oversized cab.
Anyway, where would we be without pics:
first up here are the cabs with the insert in place:
Next are the baffles ready to be cut:
Dry fit of the baffles:
And lastly, the baffles glued in with a coat of finish on the BB front:
The brown vinyl of the original cabs doesn't actually look too bad and the BB ply baffle looks pretty OK as a contrast to the brown. I don't know how they are going to sound, but I hope to find out tomorrow night after the glue dries!
So handy to have a ready made cabinet - terminal block and everything already in place!
Mods: should this thread not be moved to full range forum??
Fran
Well after a bit of a break from making some speakers - and with a pair of FE206 looking over forlornly at me every now and then I started last night to make some of the bigger 3-D spiral horns. For anyone not intune with the story here, I made a set of these for jkeny and he equipped them with some JX92S and boy do they sound great. It was all the more surprising because the cabinet design was really for the FE126 but the sound really is great. Very civilised etc etc etc.
So at the time I bought a pair of FE206... but never got around to building them.
Now making up cabinets is a bit of a PITA - or rather finishing them is. Just so happened a friend had given me some old B&W DM220 speaker that had a woofer gone. So out with the measuring tape and it turns out the cabs for these are the right height and width but a little too high for the AG280Z design. Shame to leave them there though, and worse, me have to make new cabinets. So I decided to cheat a little and I fitted a spiral horn insert. My thinking is that the extra amount of material inside will help make up for the oversized cab.
Anyway, where would we be without pics:
first up here are the cabs with the insert in place:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Next are the baffles ready to be cut:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Dry fit of the baffles:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And lastly, the baffles glued in with a coat of finish on the BB front:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The brown vinyl of the original cabs doesn't actually look too bad and the BB ply baffle looks pretty OK as a contrast to the brown. I don't know how they are going to sound, but I hope to find out tomorrow night after the glue dries!
So handy to have a ready made cabinet - terminal block and everything already in place!
Mods: should this thread not be moved to full range forum??
Fran
Sorry for the lack of update. I did put these together using the 206s but they sounded terrible - no bass at all which was a real pity. Wether it was the build or the design I don't know, they sounded ok with the FE127 and really good with the jordan jx92s. Dunno, and lack the theory/experience to find out why.
Horns may be next on the agenda. FWIW, even when using the 3D horn boxes for the FE127, the fonkens sounded better.....
Fran
Horns may be next on the agenda. FWIW, even when using the 3D horn boxes for the FE127, the fonkens sounded better.....
Fran
thank you fran! what a fast reply
i'm going to build a different project, also for the 206, it's the Helix-AG250 - a floorstander - i'm thinking of building it front-firing istead of back-firiang as by project... do you have any hint to reverse the port? should i reverse all the fins or would it be enough to have the driver on the same side of the port leaving the project as is? do you have any idea?? i could not find a standard rule looking at the other models (some floorstanders are front-firing, some has odd some has even fins)
some observations:
it's strange that your model didn't work at all since it's one of those that come with measurements on the site... were the fostex already well brake-in?
isn't it strange that the jordan was working well? since for what i know its flex design relays on the air load for the lf exstention...
i'm going to build a different project, also for the 206, it's the Helix-AG250 - a floorstander - i'm thinking of building it front-firing istead of back-firiang as by project... do you have any hint to reverse the port? should i reverse all the fins or would it be enough to have the driver on the same side of the port leaving the project as is? do you have any idea?? i could not find a standard rule looking at the other models (some floorstanders are front-firing, some has odd some has even fins)
some observations:
it's strange that your model didn't work at all since it's one of those that come with measurements on the site... were the fostex already well brake-in?
isn't it strange that the jordan was working well? since for what i know its flex design relays on the air load for the lf exstention...
i reply to myself, hope somebody will notice...
i build a pair of 8" driver spiralhorn, the driver indeed is an Audionirvana Super 8", the cabinet (you can find it on the site, see 1st post here) is the AG-250.
the cabinet was intended to suit the 206 or any other fostex 8", i didn't care, built it anyway without any modification (twin 3,5cm back porting), put the AN on it and well:
no bass was coming out! and everything else was muffled and rubbish...
but the day later i removed the bottom of the cabinet, closed the twin port and now big, sub-like bass is coming out of these! really big bass, although everyone has a different idea on it...
tricking with the distance from the floor regulates the bass somehow, and a bsc of somekind is also needed for the AN not to give blood out of ears
i think it's really interesting, since it's a small floorstander (90hx24wx29d), and the bass i think is sounding articulated and not booming.
now:
1st does someone have any idea what i should do with the bottom?? perhaps meaking larger ports?? or one big downfiring? maybe a horn like aperture to make it from down to front firing?
please give me some hint, i'm new to diy and really i'm note understanding what's going on here...
2nd i think someone with the skills should give this designs a try, cause it seems to be a good (fashionable) design to many FR drivers (that is all this forum is about...), cause speculation about it being a horn, a relfex or a quarterwave just don't give them any justice, and maybe many good design could start from understanding and TESTING this thing out...
i build a pair of 8" driver spiralhorn, the driver indeed is an Audionirvana Super 8", the cabinet (you can find it on the site, see 1st post here) is the AG-250.
the cabinet was intended to suit the 206 or any other fostex 8", i didn't care, built it anyway without any modification (twin 3,5cm back porting), put the AN on it and well:
no bass was coming out! and everything else was muffled and rubbish...
but the day later i removed the bottom of the cabinet, closed the twin port and now big, sub-like bass is coming out of these! really big bass, although everyone has a different idea on it...
tricking with the distance from the floor regulates the bass somehow, and a bsc of somekind is also needed for the AN not to give blood out of ears
i think it's really interesting, since it's a small floorstander (90hx24wx29d), and the bass i think is sounding articulated and not booming.
now:
1st does someone have any idea what i should do with the bottom?? perhaps meaking larger ports?? or one big downfiring? maybe a horn like aperture to make it from down to front firing?
please give me some hint, i'm new to diy and really i'm note understanding what's going on here...
2nd i think someone with the skills should give this designs a try, cause it seems to be a good (fashionable) design to many FR drivers (that is all this forum is about...), cause speculation about it being a horn, a relfex or a quarterwave just don't give them any justice, and maybe many good design could start from understanding and TESTING this thing out...
Well done Human.bin - yea the design is intriguing, isn't it? I think there are two reasons why there is not more interest
- the build id fairly complex in woodworking skills compared to other designs
- there isn't any real theory behind the design to adapt it to other drivers
NB. Some pics of my finished Jordan JX92s in their cabinets (courtesy of WoodturnerFran, who did the piano black finish).
Excellent looking speakers, I think you'll agree?
- the build id fairly complex in woodworking skills compared to other designs
- there isn't any real theory behind the design to adapt it to other drivers
NB. Some pics of my finished Jordan JX92s in their cabinets (courtesy of WoodturnerFran, who did the piano black finish).
Excellent looking speakers, I think you'll agree?
Attachments
have you done any measurement or run any tone sample?
what exstension are you getting out of the jordans?
does anyone know if the hf extension is impaired but such a design? certainly it's not an OB, but maybe it also could behave differently in this regard from br and sealed...
makes me wonder
what exstension are you getting out of the jordans?
does anyone know if the hf extension is impaired but such a design? certainly it's not an OB, but maybe it also could behave differently in this regard from br and sealed...
makes me wonder
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