!! if they turn out half as good as those pics, they'll be stunning!
Cheers vikash, that rendering looks good- the light just need to be a bit brighter i think- the lighting is the most important part to getting a good image out. What cad package did u use? i found your animation of the sub driver while searching these forums last nite- nice 
O and the microphone preamp i got from you is great too!
The time alignment thing seems to have lots of different pros and cons. Moving the tweeter back in relation to the mid would create lots of diffraction effects taht may be more detrimental to the sound- also the importance of it is discussed here: http://sound.westhost.com/ptd.htm
I amk designing the crossovers using speaker workshop- it has a setting for the acoustic offset of the drivers, which i have measured as if the drivers were mounted on the same baffle- and used in the program. The response looks flat across the crossover points, and gives a deep, symetrical null when the polatity of the mid is reversed. The flatness of the summed curve changes if i alter the offset of the drivers, so am i right in thinking the offset of the drivers will be compensated for in the crossover?
I'll definatly be taking lots of photographs during the construction, as the "making" part of the project is worth a fair chunk of my final degree mark. Ill be starting fairly soon so i'll keep you guys posted.
Im in the process of putting together a web page for it- but im also considereing redoing the layout of my website so im not sure when it will be up. In the mean time, click the WWW button under this post to see the rest of my website.
cheers, matto
O and the microphone preamp i got from you is great too!
The time alignment thing seems to have lots of different pros and cons. Moving the tweeter back in relation to the mid would create lots of diffraction effects taht may be more detrimental to the sound- also the importance of it is discussed here: http://sound.westhost.com/ptd.htm
I amk designing the crossovers using speaker workshop- it has a setting for the acoustic offset of the drivers, which i have measured as if the drivers were mounted on the same baffle- and used in the program. The response looks flat across the crossover points, and gives a deep, symetrical null when the polatity of the mid is reversed. The flatness of the summed curve changes if i alter the offset of the drivers, so am i right in thinking the offset of the drivers will be compensated for in the crossover?
I'll definatly be taking lots of photographs during the construction, as the "making" part of the project is worth a fair chunk of my final degree mark. Ill be starting fairly soon so i'll keep you guys posted.
Im in the process of putting together a web page for it- but im also considereing redoing the layout of my website so im not sure when it will be up. In the mean time, click the WWW button under this post to see the rest of my website.
cheers, matto
ShinOBIWAN said:
thanks very much!
Ive been following your perceive threads with great interest, and next year when im earning a decent wage am intending to attempt something similar, possibly using a PC based crossover as funds allow. Indeed, the name "perceive" got me out of a hole when i was doing some work last year and couldnt think of a name (see www button below) so thanks very much for that!
Although im sure my tutors wont care if i build one or two- Im building two as otherwise I wont be able to evaluate the performance of the design, which forms a fair chunk of the marks- and i want a nice pair of speakers to replace the mission 782's in the living room at home.
hello lufbramatt.
i don't know exactly as i don't know speaker workshop. But there are two options as long as i know : Either you didn't entered the parameters of the accoustical center of each driver, either you used an assymetrical slope and then the crossover is compensating for the driver offset
this promises to be a veery good speakers. I insist on time alignment because of the article you linked to (that i already read and that is very good). There are two way to read this article's conclusion . The first one is yours. The second is to see that Rod, that is not easily falling into the hype, to say the least,is convinced that time aligning drivers is the way to go if you can deal with the drawbacks
Rod states :
what i understand from this little extract is that time alignment is not done easily without drawbacks, but that it is possible. The most elegant solutions in my opinion are either :
- Assymetrical crossover
- Slanted baffle as in the Jmlab Utopia for example
- Accoustical Waveguide
The waveguide, even if it has lots of advantages, do not seem to be easily blendable into your design, so the two other possibilities remain.
the slanted baffle is difficult to implement, but the very aim of your design seems to be taking advantage of the construction method you will be using, wich would allow a kind of slanted baffle pretty easily, even a waveguide if you wanted to, anyway, being able to shape the cabinet into very organic shapes, you are able to overcome very easily the diffraction effects Rod is reffering to
then i admit that it would need a redesign stage that you may not want to go through. if it is the case i strongly advise you to compensate in the crossover network.
just my 2 cents !
i don't know exactly as i don't know speaker workshop. But there are two options as long as i know : Either you didn't entered the parameters of the accoustical center of each driver, either you used an assymetrical slope and then the crossover is compensating for the driver offset
this promises to be a veery good speakers. I insist on time alignment because of the article you linked to (that i already read and that is very good). There are two way to read this article's conclusion . The first one is yours. The second is to see that Rod, that is not easily falling into the hype, to say the least,is convinced that time aligning drivers is the way to go if you can deal with the drawbacks
Rod states :
what i understand from this little extract is that time alignment is not done easily without drawbacks, but that it is possible. The most elegant solutions in my opinion are either :
- Assymetrical crossover
- Slanted baffle as in the Jmlab Utopia for example
- Accoustical Waveguide
The waveguide, even if it has lots of advantages, do not seem to be easily blendable into your design, so the two other possibilities remain.
the slanted baffle is difficult to implement, but the very aim of your design seems to be taking advantage of the construction method you will be using, wich would allow a kind of slanted baffle pretty easily, even a waveguide if you wanted to, anyway, being able to shape the cabinet into very organic shapes, you are able to overcome very easily the diffraction effects Rod is reffering to
then i admit that it would need a redesign stage that you may not want to go through
. if it is the case i strongly advise you to compensate in the crossover network.just my 2 cents !
thanks very much for your comments- 12 months ago I knew nothing about building and designing loudspeakers so I'm learning all the time.
It turns out that one of the solutions you have mentioned- asymetrical slopes- I have done, stumbling on it just by trying lots of different ideas in speaker workshop to see how they model. I found that using a third order slope on the tweeter, and a second order slope (electrical) on the midrange gave the deepest reverse polarity null with the acoustic offsets entered, which having thought about it would give a higher phase shift on the tweeter delaying its output. Im sure i have entered the offsets correctly.
However, the design pictured above is the initial concept, which I have just handed in for assesment last week. In 2 weeks time I will have to redesign out any problems in the design (partly why I started this thread, to get ideas), so your comments are very helpful to me.
I have ordered some parts so try out some crossovers using basic test enclosures, but sloping the baffles may well be included into the design if the crossover has to be changed significantly.
It turns out that one of the solutions you have mentioned- asymetrical slopes- I have done, stumbling on it just by trying lots of different ideas in speaker workshop to see how they model. I found that using a third order slope on the tweeter, and a second order slope (electrical) on the midrange gave the deepest reverse polarity null with the acoustic offsets entered, which having thought about it would give a higher phase shift on the tweeter delaying its output. Im sure i have entered the offsets correctly.
However, the design pictured above is the initial concept, which I have just handed in for assesment last week. In 2 weeks time I will have to redesign out any problems in the design (partly why I started this thread, to get ideas), so your comments are very helpful to me.
I have ordered some parts so try out some crossovers using basic test enclosures, but sloping the baffles may well be included into the design if the crossover has to be changed significantly.
you are very welcome, it would be a shame not to share what i know and what i learned, provided you are doing such a great project.
I suspect you are a student in industrial design, or something like that ?
i wish you great luck for your project , and am ready to help you if i can. I'm pretty newbie either, it's been two years since i started building,and only built 3 pairs of speakers, but i am an obsessional freak and so i learned a lot through internet, on site like rod's elliot one
I suspect you are a student in industrial design, or something like that ?
i wish you great luck for your project , and am ready to help you if i can. I'm pretty newbie either, it's been two years since i started building,and only built 3 pairs of speakers, but i am an obsessional freak
and so i learned a lot through internet, on site like rod's elliot one
yep spot on- industrial design and technology
I cant imagine doing any other degree- i have virtually no exams and get to spend 70% of my final year doing my hobby.
Have a look here: http://www-student.lboro.ac.uk/~cdmw2/index.htm for some more of my work.
These are my second speakers- although the first pair used a crossover found on the web, so this is my first crossover too. An optional electronics module last year helped me out with that though.
cheers, matto.
I cant imagine doing any other degree- i have virtually no exams and get to spend 70% of my final year doing my hobby.
Have a look here: http://www-student.lboro.ac.uk/~cdmw2/index.htm for some more of my work.
These are my second speakers- although the first pair used a crossover found on the web, so this is my first crossover too. An optional electronics module last year helped me out with that though.
cheers, matto.
Hey there, cool looking speaker ideas you have there. Since you guys were talking about time alignment, waveguides and baffles you reminded me of this:
http://www.theultimatemonitor.com/default2.htm
Have you seen it before?
http://www.theultimatemonitor.com/default2.htm
Have you seen it before?
I've seen these before.
The tweeter is recessed slightly.
My version
Still have them. Stored away these days.
Matt, I think yours look quite nice. Do post pics when done.
Wish I had rendering capabilities like that .
Cheers,
AJ
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The tweeter is recessed slightly.
My version
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Still have them. Stored away these days.
Matt, I think yours look quite nice. Do post pics when done.
Wish I had rendering capabilities like that
.Cheers,
AJ
Now how did you put it, ahh yes, I use that "fake" 3D package - 3D Studio Maxlufbramatt said:Cheers vikash, that rendering looks good- the light just need to be a bit brighter i think- the lighting is the most important part to getting a good image out. What cad package did u use? i found your animation of the sub driver while searching these forums last nite- nice
O and the microphone preamp i got from you is great too!
I don't like it very much though. Doesn't seem as intuitive as it perhaps could be.
I've had a breif dabble in 3D max, but for the kind of work im doing its not really that suitable. ProEngineer works in a completely different way to Max- the models are effectively built from engineering drawings which can be extruded, revolved, swept etc, rather than defining a wireframe. This means that the models are geometrically correct, rather than just a surface representation. Its more akin to something like Autocad than 3Dmax.
ProE can also be used to make simulations of mechanisms, generate CNC code for making parts, physics simulations, mould tool simulations and all sorts of other things, im sure ive only scratched the surface of this huge program. The downside is a very steep learning curve- but it means i can make money helping out 1st and 2nd years here at uni
The rendering engine is actually based on the one used in lightwave, so its kinda the best of both worlds
ProE can also be used to make simulations of mechanisms, generate CNC code for making parts, physics simulations, mould tool simulations and all sorts of other things, im sure ive only scratched the surface of this huge program. The downside is a very steep learning curve- but it means i can make money helping out 1st and 2nd years here at uni
The rendering engine is actually based on the one used in lightwave, so its kinda the best of both worlds
exams over
Well having finished my last exam ever, I got back to my room to celebrate- by screwing together the big box of crossover components I received from germany
With only basic tools to work with i fashioned a baffle from a scrap of MDF and screwed it to the top of one of my test bass enclosures. Workshops are shut until next week as its inter-semester break, so I cant make a test cab for the midrange just yet.
We spent an evening listening to the "ugliest speaker in the world" which actually sounds quite nice. The upper midrange seems a bit hot so I might have to change some cap and resistor values, but Im very pleased considering its the first crossover i've designed 100% from scratch. The clarity is really good and the bass from the sealed scan 8555 is quick and punchy, even though its being driven from a cheap PC soundcard.
I'll leave any adjustments until after ive built a full test enclosure, as the open-baffle nature of the mid must have a huge role in the slightly odd sound, but heres some pics for now:
Well having finished my last exam ever, I got back to my room to celebrate- by screwing together the big box of crossover components I received from germany
With only basic tools to work with i fashioned a baffle from a scrap of MDF and screwed it to the top of one of my test bass enclosures. Workshops are shut until next week as its inter-semester break, so I cant make a test cab for the midrange just yet.
We spent an evening listening to the "ugliest speaker in the world" which actually sounds quite nice. The upper midrange seems a bit hot so I might have to change some cap and resistor values, but Im very pleased considering its the first crossover i've designed 100% from scratch. The clarity is really good and the bass from the sealed scan 8555 is quick and punchy, even though its being driven from a cheap PC soundcard.
I'll leave any adjustments until after ive built a full test enclosure, as the open-baffle nature of the mid must have a huge role in the slightly odd sound, but heres some pics for now:
Attachments
hi guys, if anyones interested ive finally finished the restyle of the enclosures so that i can actually make the things, which involved simplifying them and making the top and bottom enclosures tie together better. My tutors seemd to like the idea and gave me a first for the designing part of the project so i'm good to go for making them
All the crossovers have been built, all the feet, binding posts etc have been ordered so im going to start making the moulds for the fiberglass outer shells next week.
Heres a pic i rendered up last night:
All the crossovers have been built, all the feet, binding posts etc have been ordered so im going to start making the moulds for the fiberglass outer shells next week.
Heres a pic i rendered up last night:
Attachments
Stunning design. Too bulky and overpowering for my personal taste in a practical sense (I can't see them ever fitting in my living surroundings 
), but admire your design work thoroughly.
Again, if the finished product looks half as good as the design work so far, you'll get a first for the practical part too (or I'll send my boys around to see your supervisor).
), but admire your design work thoroughly.Again, if the finished product looks half as good as the design work so far, you'll get a first for the practical part too (or I'll send my boys around to see your supervisor).
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