Personally, I would take a look at the designs in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129647
This is a very flexible SE amp which has a dirt simple design, can
run an assortment of tubes, but lends itself well to tinkering with
the details. Especially if price isn't a huge issue, you can use some
really high-end components here and have one sweet sounding amp.
I have slowly been collecting parts to build one of these for six months
now...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129647
This is a very flexible SE amp which has a dirt simple design, can
run an assortment of tubes, but lends itself well to tinkering with
the details. Especially if price isn't a huge issue, you can use some
really high-end components here and have one sweet sounding amp.
I have slowly been collecting parts to build one of these for six months
now...
Push/Pull:
1. http://www.audiotropic.net/Projects/ampEL34.html
-Good for about 16watts or so
2. http://www.audiotropic.net/Projects/implement.html
-Good for about 5watts
3. El Cheapo
4. Seth 2A3
I think the Seth 2A3 push/pull was suggested earlier, but it would make the list too. As far as ease of build and cost I think that El Cheapo would be the way to go. Upgrade options for later too. At the opposite end would probably be the Seth. It would be just as easy to build, but it would require a lot more cash input. For the cost of the 2A3 output pair for one of the two channels you could probably have all the tubes and almost if not all the passives for the El Cheapo. The Musical Machine would probably fall behind the Seth as far as cost and then the EL34 from AudioTropic, though it and the Machine would be very close.
SE:
1. KT88 SE (Mentioned above)
2. Tubelab SE or Simple SE
3. Something from Bottlehead
4. The Baby Ongaku
There are tons of SE Schematics out there to choose from...well I guess that goes for P/P too. The KT88 or a Tubelab Simple SE running KT88 tubes would probably be the best fit for the kind of music you listen to. As mentioned the KT88 has tons of room for improvement. Also you can run it wired as a triode, ultra-linear, or pure pentode (well I guess tetrode). If memory serves you should be able to get about 10watts or so in ultra-linear mode. Plus triode/UL mode and feedback/no feedback can be just a switch away depending on how you build it.
The Baby Ongaku would be at the far opposite end of the SE spectrum. If you build it as laid out in the article (can be found by Google-ing "Baby Ongaku") it will set you back quite a bit. The output transformers alone will set you back a couple of C notes apiece for the non-silver wound ones. I am sure Mike at Magnequest wouldn't mind to much winding some silver ones like used in the article, but my guess would be $300-$400 apiece minimum. Also you will get about 3.5watts max output, so you will have to pair it with some nice efficient speakers, it would like Lowther's or some nice big horns.
Just my
look to El Cheapo, AudioTropic EL34, or KT88SE
Cheers
James
1. http://www.audiotropic.net/Projects/ampEL34.html
-Good for about 16watts or so
2. http://www.audiotropic.net/Projects/implement.html
-Good for about 5watts
3. El Cheapo
4. Seth 2A3
I think the Seth 2A3 push/pull was suggested earlier, but it would make the list too. As far as ease of build and cost I think that El Cheapo would be the way to go. Upgrade options for later too. At the opposite end would probably be the Seth. It would be just as easy to build, but it would require a lot more cash input. For the cost of the 2A3 output pair for one of the two channels you could probably have all the tubes and almost if not all the passives for the El Cheapo. The Musical Machine would probably fall behind the Seth as far as cost and then the EL34 from AudioTropic, though it and the Machine would be very close.
SE:
1. KT88 SE (Mentioned above)
2. Tubelab SE or Simple SE
3. Something from Bottlehead
4. The Baby Ongaku
There are tons of SE Schematics out there to choose from...well I guess that goes for P/P too. The KT88 or a Tubelab Simple SE running KT88 tubes would probably be the best fit for the kind of music you listen to. As mentioned the KT88 has tons of room for improvement. Also you can run it wired as a triode, ultra-linear, or pure pentode (well I guess tetrode). If memory serves you should be able to get about 10watts or so in ultra-linear mode. Plus triode/UL mode and feedback/no feedback can be just a switch away depending on how you build it.
The Baby Ongaku would be at the far opposite end of the SE spectrum. If you build it as laid out in the article (can be found by Google-ing "Baby Ongaku") it will set you back quite a bit. The output transformers alone will set you back a couple of C notes apiece for the non-silver wound ones. I am sure Mike at Magnequest wouldn't mind to much winding some silver ones like used in the article, but my guess would be $300-$400 apiece minimum. Also you will get about 3.5watts max output, so you will have to pair it with some nice efficient speakers, it would like Lowther's or some nice big horns.
Just my
look to El Cheapo, AudioTropic EL34, or KT88SECheers
James
Any comments on this 20watt KT88 PP...looks simple
Specified Lundahl transformers
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/my/pp3.html
Specified Lundahl transformers
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/my/pp3.html
Attachments
There are some good photos and schematics at http://www.audiohobbyist.com/projects/projects.htm including the schematic for my 832 amp. Mine has a couple of mods though.
http://www.tubelab.com/
Hit the "Amplifier Designs" tap for both the Tubelab SE and the Simple SE.
http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/forum/elCheapo-23jun06-map.gif
That I think is the current schematic, please correct me if I am wrong. The 12AQ5 can be switched with 6V6's with minimal changes.
Cheers
James
Edit: http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/elcheapo.htm
For El Cheapo
Hit the "Amplifier Designs" tap for both the Tubelab SE and the Simple SE.
http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/forum/elCheapo-23jun06-map.gif
That I think is the current schematic, please correct me if I am wrong. The 12AQ5 can be switched with 6V6's with minimal changes.
Cheers
James
Edit: http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/elcheapo.htm
For El Cheapo
http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/forum/elCheapo-23jun06-map.gif
http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/elcheapo.htm
http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/
Dont know whether its on Decware Forum anymore
As pr Simple SE I dont recall having seen a dedicated thread, but it has been discussed here and there, and those who have built it all praise it highly as one of the very best
Though I am very attracted to classic designs, I personally would prefer the Simple SE with its SS regulated heater
though I like mono amps, its still a neat design fore a small and cost effective integrated
Good luck
http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/elcheapo.htm
http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/
Dont know whether its on Decware Forum anymore
As pr Simple SE I dont recall having seen a dedicated thread, but it has been discussed here and there, and those who have built it all praise it highly as one of the very best
Though I am very attracted to classic designs, I personally would prefer the Simple SE with its SS regulated heater
though I like mono amps, its still a neat design fore a small and cost effective integrated
Good luck
The LENGTHY and ongoing "El Cheapo" saga is here.
The circuit shown works with any 6V6 family member. As long as basing and heater voltage are accounted for, zero changes are needed.
"El Cheapo" operates in Class "AB". Most of the time, both "finals" are conducting. For deep Class "A" operation, some circuit modifications are necessary. A doubled isolation trafo, without boost, provides a proper B+ rail for the "finals". However, that forces alteration of the small signal circuitry. The LTP load resistors are reduced to 33 KOhms. Keeping splitter/driver gain up requires the insertion of ZVN0545A source followers DC coupled to the 'T7 plates, between the splitter and the O/P tubes. Of course, the RC cathode bias network values change.
BTW, the screen grid in the prototypical 6V6 is tougher than that found in other family members. Reduce the value of the resistor connecting g2 and plate to 100 Ohms.
The circuit shown works with any 6V6 family member. As long as basing and heater voltage are accounted for, zero changes are needed.
"El Cheapo" operates in Class "AB". Most of the time, both "finals" are conducting. For deep Class "A" operation, some circuit modifications are necessary. A doubled isolation trafo, without boost, provides a proper B+ rail for the "finals". However, that forces alteration of the small signal circuitry. The LTP load resistors are reduced to 33 KOhms. Keeping splitter/driver gain up requires the insertion of ZVN0545A source followers DC coupled to the 'T7 plates, between the splitter and the O/P tubes. Of course, the RC cathode bias network values change.
BTW, the screen grid in the prototypical 6V6 is tougher than that found in other family members. Reduce the value of the resistor connecting g2 and plate to 100 Ohms.
David:
Perhaps we should look "backwards" in your endeavour...
Let us establish a minimum SPL of say 115 Db(Concert level) for your classic Rock...think the opening to Pink Floyds Dark Side of the Moon.
This will overtax most all fullrangers...However, fullrangers will sound superb for Jazz.
If the SPL is set at 115 min then we can work back to find a loudspeaker suitable for this, then we work back to a minimum power level for your amp. This may or may not limit your choices for the amp.
As an aside, my "dream" system is a Klipsch Cornwall driven by a Single Ended 813. I,m still sorting out the 813...the Klipschs' will still be waiting for me.
_______________________________________________Rick.......
Perhaps we should look "backwards" in your endeavour...
Let us establish a minimum SPL of say 115 Db(Concert level) for your classic Rock...think the opening to Pink Floyds Dark Side of the Moon.
This will overtax most all fullrangers...However, fullrangers will sound superb for Jazz.
If the SPL is set at 115 min then we can work back to find a loudspeaker suitable for this, then we work back to a minimum power level for your amp. This may or may not limit your choices for the amp.
As an aside, my "dream" system is a Klipsch Cornwall driven by a Single Ended 813. I,m still sorting out the 813...the Klipschs' will still be waiting for me.
_______________________________________________Rick.......
Richard, good idea. My main goal is to just learn about tubes, and hopefully build a very nice sounding system. The type of music I like probably lends itself best to solid state.
I picked up a book at Halted Specialities yesterday titled "Understanding Hi-Fi Circuits" by Crowhurst and published in 1957 - republished by Audio Amateur Press in 2002. Seems like a good book covering all aspects of tube audio.
The RH84 looks very simple to build: http://www.tubeaudio.8m.com/RH84/rh84.html/
As does El Cheapo: http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/forum/elCheapo-23jun06-map.gif
I also like the El Cheapo Eli has designed. Both seem pretty cool and straight forward to make. I like the fact that Eli's El Cheapo has a CCS option already designed. I've had such good success in SS with CCS designs.
The EL84 seems to be a popular audio power tube. How does the El Cheapo using 12AQ5's compare? Curious what others have experienced. I'll probably get around to building both, just looking for advice as a jumping off point.
The thoughtful suggestions and help provided here is very much appreciated! Thank you for helping a SS hobbyist navigate a first time tube project.
BTW, I'll also be at Burning Amp next Sunday.
-David
I picked up a book at Halted Specialities yesterday titled "Understanding Hi-Fi Circuits" by Crowhurst and published in 1957 - republished by Audio Amateur Press in 2002. Seems like a good book covering all aspects of tube audio.
The RH84 looks very simple to build: http://www.tubeaudio.8m.com/RH84/rh84.html/
As does El Cheapo: http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/forum/elCheapo-23jun06-map.gif
I also like the El Cheapo Eli has designed. Both seem pretty cool and straight forward to make. I like the fact that Eli's El Cheapo has a CCS option already designed. I've had such good success in SS with CCS designs.
The EL84 seems to be a popular audio power tube. How does the El Cheapo using 12AQ5's compare? Curious what others have experienced. I'll probably get around to building both, just looking for advice as a jumping off point.
The thoughtful suggestions and help provided here is very much appreciated! Thank you for helping a SS hobbyist navigate a first time tube project.
BTW, I'll also be at Burning Amp next Sunday.
-David
vinylkid58 said:
I'm looking to learn more about tubes and to have fun DIY experimenting with low power tube amps and full range drivers. Just looking for a new DIY audio adventure and have fun along the way with my hobby. I'm betting that a lot of my preconceived notions about tubes will change. In the end, I might be out a few bucks and had a good time learning something new.
-David
Re: Decware SE84C
Our RH84s started out as Decware Zen clones. RH84 wa sbetter and 3x the power is a real draw at these power levels.
El Cheapo (at least our execution) is a different beast.
The RH84 has more midrange magic, the Class A El Cheapo variant some of the best bass i've heard from any amp.
dave
dw8083 said:
Our RH84s started out as Decware Zen clones. RH84 wa sbetter and 3x the power is a real draw at these power levels.
El Cheapo (at least our execution) is a different beast.
The RH84 has more midrange magic, the Class A El Cheapo variant some of the best bass i've heard from any amp.
dave
Re: Re: Decware SE84C
I was looking over the Decware SE84C schematic (attached), which seems somewhat similar to the RH84.
Dave, I think both you and Eli helped convince me to build the El Cheapo. Hopefully I can catch up with some of you at Burning Amp in San Francisco this weekend.
-David
Decware SE84C:
RH84SE:
planet10 said:
I was looking over the Decware SE84C schematic (attached), which seems somewhat similar to the RH84.
Dave, I think both you and Eli helped convince me to build the El Cheapo. Hopefully I can catch up with some of you at Burning Amp in San Francisco this weekend.
-David
Decware SE84C:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
RH84SE:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Decware SE84C
Thanks Tinitus.
I'm planning on taking some time to sort through the BIG El Cheapo thread Eli referenced earlier.
Here's the El Cheapo schematic I'll start from that Dave was kind enough to share:
Any thoughts on this version of El Cheapo is greatly appreciated! From what I'm reading the output transformers are critical for tube amps. I assume that Hammonds are the standard, but I understand there are better makes to consider.
I have a pair of 8 Ohm MOTH's Full Range drivers at the moment, but will soon purchase a pair of 16 ohm Lowthers. Should the amp have different taps for 8 and 16 ohms?
Thank you,
-David
tinitus said:
Thanks Tinitus.
I'm planning on taking some time to sort through the BIG El Cheapo thread Eli referenced earlier.
Here's the El Cheapo schematic I'll start from that Dave was kind enough to share:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Any thoughts on this version of El Cheapo is greatly appreciated! From what I'm reading the output transformers are critical for tube amps. I assume that Hammonds are the standard, but I understand there are better makes to consider.
I have a pair of 8 Ohm MOTH's Full Range drivers at the moment, but will soon purchase a pair of 16 ohm Lowthers. Should the amp have different taps for 8 and 16 ohms?
Thank you,
-David
The 12AQ5 is a member of the 6V6 family, which was very inexpensive when EC was designed. It seems EC builders have put a good sized "dent" into the 12AQ5 supply.
Both the EL84 and 6V6 are "12" W. tubes. The EL84 is a true pentode, while the 6V6 is a beam power tetrode. Both sound good, but their voices are different. AAMOF, there's serious sonic "mojo" in "12" W. multi-grid power O/P types, in general.
Members of the 6V6 family make EXTRAORDINARILY linear triodes. The NFB loop in EC is present primarily to linearize the O/P trafo and improve damping factor. By themselves, the signal tubes have a satisfactory distortion profile.
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