Niffy,
I have previously had my broken Cadenza Black fixed with a JICO SAS/B (boron cantilever and microridge diamond), but unfortunately the diamond fell off the cantilever a couple of months ago. So, I had to have it retipped with a Namiki microridge diamond (without changing the boron cantilever). It should arrive any day now from abroad.
I had done the same upgrade with two of my DL103R, which were sonically boosted very significantly. However, the upgraded Cadenza is at an even higher level than the upgraded DL103R.
I have previously had my broken Cadenza Black fixed with a JICO SAS/B (boron cantilever and microridge diamond), but unfortunately the diamond fell off the cantilever a couple of months ago. So, I had to have it retipped with a Namiki microridge diamond (without changing the boron cantilever). It should arrive any day now from abroad.
I had done the same upgrade with two of my DL103R, which were sonically boosted very significantly. However, the upgraded Cadenza is at an even higher level than the upgraded DL103R.
Interesting. I was previously using a Denon DL304 which I found to be more refined than the DL103. The DL304 is lovely sounding but ultimately I found it too rose-tinted for my tastes, a bit rolled of at the frequency extremes and overly plummy in the midrange.
The Denon was loaned to me by a friend who had several of them and used them on both of his decks.
I had always used Ortofons before this, enjoying their accuracy and neutrality. I replaced the DL304 with an Ortofon Quintet Black S. The upgrade was massive right across the board. The friend who had loaned me the Denon took one listen to the Quintet and immediately went out and bought a Cadenza Black. I'm currently trying to find a way to fund a Cadenza for myself.
The Denon was loaned to me by a friend who had several of them and used them on both of his decks.
I had always used Ortofons before this, enjoying their accuracy and neutrality. I replaced the DL304 with an Ortofon Quintet Black S. The upgrade was massive right across the board. The friend who had loaned me the Denon took one listen to the Quintet and immediately went out and bought a Cadenza Black. I'm currently trying to find a way to fund a Cadenza for myself.
Niffy,
as you probably know, the DL103 has a spherical tip, whereas the 103R has an elliptical one. Changing the plastic body, as well as the cantilever and the tip with something more sophisticated, take the 103R to a wholly different level.
Then again, as I've said, the upgraded Cadenza Black is even better. I bought it with a broken cantilever and had it... fixed.
as you probably know, the DL103 has a spherical tip, whereas the 103R has an elliptical one. Changing the plastic body, as well as the cantilever and the tip with something more sophisticated, take the 103R to a wholly different level.
Then again, as I've said, the upgraded Cadenza Black is even better. I bought it with a broken cantilever and had it... fixed.
The DL103 is the most upgradable and upgraded cartridges out there. I'm not sure which version of the DL103 I heard, it definitely had a metal body but I don't know about the stylus and cantilever. It might have been a Zu. Still a bit over romanticised for my tastes.
Good to know that the Ortofon can be easily retipped.
Good to know that the Ortofon can be easily retipped.
Over the weekend I swapped back to the 2mm EPDM belts and directly compared them to the polyester thread. I also repeated the exercise on Monday when I employed a second pair of ears. The owner of the second ears impressions were exactly the same as mine. His initial comment was that the quality of the bass was much better with the polyester than he had heard in my system before. Switching to the EPDM he thought that the treble was sweeter and the midrange warmer but transparency, image focus, detail and transients all suffered. Switching back to the polyester we both were of the conclusion that the polyester was more neutral and that the warmth and sweetness of the EPDM sounded like a colouration. A pleasant colouration but a colouration non the less.
Switching back to the 2mm EPDM did show how close to being unstable these belts are, right on the cusp of not being flexible enough. The belts had been stored coiled up in a zip lock bag. It took quite a while for them to settle down and run true.
I'm thinking that I might have found the belt material that I am going to stick with.
The only further modification I think that I am going to make to the drive system of my deck will be to make a new set of idlers and pulley. The current set were made for round belts and have a ~1mm radius groove around 0.25mm deep for the belt to run in. I think I'll make the new ones with a much smaller radius groove to match the much thinner thread. My friend has recently purchased a very nice small lathe which should be ideal for the job.
Niffy
Switching back to the 2mm EPDM did show how close to being unstable these belts are, right on the cusp of not being flexible enough. The belts had been stored coiled up in a zip lock bag. It took quite a while for them to settle down and run true.
I'm thinking that I might have found the belt material that I am going to stick with.
The only further modification I think that I am going to make to the drive system of my deck will be to make a new set of idlers and pulley. The current set were made for round belts and have a ~1mm radius groove around 0.25mm deep for the belt to run in. I think I'll make the new ones with a much smaller radius groove to match the much thinner thread. My friend has recently purchased a very nice small lathe which should be ideal for the job.
Niffy
Niffy,
it's been quite a long journey. Congratulations for having found... Ithaca. I am very happy for you.
With respect to the new pulley and idlers you are considering of building, have you considered avoiding a recess altogether and go for either one of the below...
a) pure cylindrical pulley and idlers or
b) slightly concave pulley and idlers?
Enjoy your music, which may now sound even better than before.
Cheers,
Panos
it's been quite a long journey. Congratulations for having found... Ithaca. I am very happy for you.
With respect to the new pulley and idlers you are considering of building, have you considered avoiding a recess altogether and go for either one of the below...
a) pure cylindrical pulley and idlers or
b) slightly concave pulley and idlers?
Enjoy your music, which may now sound even better than before.
Cheers,
Panos
Hi Panos,
When I was using a single flat belt the idlers were purely cylindrical and I used the crowned pulley supplied with the Origin Live motor kit.
If I were to use purely cylindrical pulley and idlers with round belts there would be nothing to keep the belts running true and they would either bunch up or run off the edge of the pulley. The belts need to run at precise locations on the subplatter and ideally shouldn't touch each other.
I'm currently using concave grooves in both the pulley and idlers in precisely position the belts. The grooves have a radius of 1mm so is only "slightly concave" compared to the diameter of the polyester thread.
My current pulley and idlers were made using my pillar drill as a lathe. As I now have access to a high quality lathe I want to up the accuracy. As the polyester is so thin I am thinking that decreasing the radius of the groove a bit.
Niffy
Hi Panos,
I am indeed fine, thank you for asking. My friend with the new lathe has several big projects on the go at the moment, including fitting a Linn radikal to his Pink Triangle Anniversary which will hopefully be completed very soon.
I have promised to do some upgrade work on his preamp which I haven't had a chance to do. It would be a bit rude to expect him to start making me bits before I have done the promised work for him. I doubt that new pulleys will have much effect as the ones I have run true, just another fun experiment.
I have not done any more belt comparisons. Revisiting the 2mm EPDM a couple of weeks ago really cemented the superiority of the polyester thread. The EPDM was definitely the best sounding of the other belts tested but the polyester is definitely better. The longer I live with the polyester the more I like it's clean transparent presentation.
Niffy
I am indeed fine, thank you for asking. My friend with the new lathe has several big projects on the go at the moment, including fitting a Linn radikal to his Pink Triangle Anniversary which will hopefully be completed very soon.
I have promised to do some upgrade work on his preamp which I haven't had a chance to do. It would be a bit rude to expect him to start making me bits before I have done the promised work for him. I doubt that new pulleys will have much effect as the ones I have run true, just another fun experiment.
I have not done any more belt comparisons. Revisiting the 2mm EPDM a couple of weeks ago really cemented the superiority of the polyester thread. The EPDM was definitely the best sounding of the other belts tested but the polyester is definitely better. The longer I live with the polyester the more I like it's clean transparent presentation.
Niffy
Hey Niffy,
Did this test ever eventuate?
I'm still keen to see how your homebake solution compares with the LINN RADIKAL...
Hey Panos,
We are enjoying our new DENON DL-103R very much.
One correction: The DENON DL-103R actually uses the same conical stylus tip, as the original DENON DL-103. Sadly, it's not elliptical. That said, I'd LOVE an elliptical DL-103R as I find elliptical tips to be the quietest in the grooves - and they last and last!
The upside of the conical tip is that the DL-103R is totally unfussy about cartridge alignment. It is, however, very fussy about tonearm compliance matching - and works fabulously well on our WAND PLUS 9"unipivot.
The difference between these two big DENONs is in the MC windings, giving the DL-103R an increased Output Impedance (40R v 14R) and (reportedly) a better top end.
The DL-103R is a great cartridge. My wife actually prefers it to our superb SHELTER 501 II!
It is still a work in progress. He has fitted everything to his Pink Triangle Anniversary. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with the switch. He's away for a couple of weeks. When he gets home I'm going to see if I can help ascertain what the problem is and see if I can get it fixed. I was out of the country for the three weeks prior to his going away so it's been a while since we've seen each other. Once we've got it working we'll let everything run in for a a while then do the A-B comparison against my Origin Live Ultra controller with the DIY power supply.
Fingers crossed that I can easily get the Radikal working.
Hi Sondeknz,
apologies for my late reply, but I was on summer holiday and I obviously missed your comment.
I stand corrected about the stylus profile. I do not know why I was under the impression that the 103R had an elliptical stylus. In any case, both of my 103R have been upgraded with a different cantilever and stylus profile. In combination with the change of the body (aluminium and wood respectively, instead of the plastic one), both 103R play at a whole different league. Very dynamic and very detailed at the same time. Very enjoyable indeed. Yes, I still think that my Ortofon Cadenza Black is even more refined and nuanced, but not by a huge margin. And we should not forget how much a Cadenza Black costs in comparison to an 103R.
If one is adventurous enough, I would highly recommend a total upgrade. But you will have to find someone who knows what he is doing.
Cheers.
@pkonstantinidis
Hey Panos!
Welcome back to the grind. I trust this message finds you happy and well-rested.
If you are anything like me, you probably need another holiday, to recover from your holiday! 😂
Yes, the DENON DL-103R is one of the best bargains in all of quality audio IMHO.
I don’t really trust anyone else to beat DENON at their own game - and fit an alternative cantilever or stylus. Plus, all the cartridge guys charge as much as a whole new DL-103 - or more - so I just can’t be bothered.
Besides, DENON already knows just how very popular their old DL-103 with factory fitted ELLIPTICAL stylus was. It had a cream coloured body and I think it was called DL103S, but don’t quote me on that.
Anyway, I feel it will only be a matter of time before DENON brings the DENON 103R to market with an ELLIPTICAL stylus. If not, I’ll just continue enjoying the stock 103R. 😎👍🏻
(Famous last words… 😂)
Hey Panos!
Welcome back to the grind. I trust this message finds you happy and well-rested.
If you are anything like me, you probably need another holiday, to recover from your holiday! 😂
Yes, the DENON DL-103R is one of the best bargains in all of quality audio IMHO.
I don’t really trust anyone else to beat DENON at their own game - and fit an alternative cantilever or stylus. Plus, all the cartridge guys charge as much as a whole new DL-103 - or more - so I just can’t be bothered.
Besides, DENON already knows just how very popular their old DL-103 with factory fitted ELLIPTICAL stylus was. It had a cream coloured body and I think it was called DL103S, but don’t quote me on that.
Anyway, I feel it will only be a matter of time before DENON brings the DENON 103R to market with an ELLIPTICAL stylus. If not, I’ll just continue enjoying the stock 103R. 😎👍🏻
(Famous last words… 😂)
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The holidays have been short but sweet. After all, it's not easy not to enjoy the Greek summer on a Greek beach -))
I see where you are coming from with respect to upgrading an 103R, but I can assure you that even with the extra cost of the materials and the labor, the upgraded 103R can still punch way, way above. That's my experience after having upgraded 3 103R (two for me and one for a close friend).
In case you are ever interested I can give you a couple of very reliable retippers. -))
I see where you are coming from with respect to upgrading an 103R, but I can assure you that even with the extra cost of the materials and the labor, the upgraded 103R can still punch way, way above. That's my experience after having upgraded 3 103R (two for me and one for a close friend).
In case you are ever interested I can give you a couple of very reliable retippers. -))
I can recommend Chris Allman of Allclear Audio in Australia. https://www.allclearaudio.com/ Chris has retipped my Ortofon Cadenza Black.
Similarly, Roman Mishin is also very experienced and great to work with. But he is based in Moscow, Russia, and due to the war, his business has been interrupted. Roman's email is rgu2002@inbox.ru He has retipped four cartridges for me. Highly recommended.
Last but not least, although I do not have personal experience with this retipper, a friend has spoken very highly about. His name is Dmitry (codename Delta667 in Vinylengine). https://www.vinylengine.com/turntab...u=362880&sid=fb79113bc0ce264bbc1a4cd1119c2f06
But Dmitry is also Russian, so the same situation applied as with Roman.
Similarly, Roman Mishin is also very experienced and great to work with. But he is based in Moscow, Russia, and due to the war, his business has been interrupted. Roman's email is rgu2002@inbox.ru He has retipped four cartridges for me. Highly recommended.
Last but not least, although I do not have personal experience with this retipper, a friend has spoken very highly about. His name is Dmitry (codename Delta667 in Vinylengine). https://www.vinylengine.com/turntab...u=362880&sid=fb79113bc0ce264bbc1a4cd1119c2f06
But Dmitry is also Russian, so the same situation applied as with Roman.