Unfortunately, not much can be done about the room. Indeed, cancellations are there and only one peak at the very low frequencies where it is not unpleasant at all. Other than that, open baffles help a lot to minimize interaction with a room where even a small mini monitor would be a nightmare. Anyway, what I tried to say is that in my humble experience, imaging does not seem to be so closely related to flat frequency response.
Yes, channel matching in volume and frequency response, is most important for imaging.
Deviations in frequency response won't affect imaging as long as both channels are the same.
I agree that flat response is not yoked to sound stage or even instruments within it. Also an effective baffle does cut room interaction.
But if you get two 2x3 carpets or even towels to toss on the ground so that the obvious midpoint reflection on the floor to your ear got damped, and you put something absorbing on the walls at the same main reflecting angle (or even a pair of stuffed upright chairs) it wouldn't alter your soundstage size but say you have two female vocalists going sometimes in unison and sometimes off - you will find better focus and definition inside the stage.
You cannot tune a room with just absorption, but to a point its needed, and its not hard to do. Diffusion will give depth and sense of stage, and also increase the delivery of harmonics which is another big cue to a large space. Now if you listen to all overproduced bass intense death metal - not really needed. But violin quartets and acoustic mid stuff on very nice equipment... another story.
Thanks but maybe i am completely wrong but open baffle should have also a large baffle I would like to keep the front narrow for what is possible
I think i will end with a 2 way with the tweeter above the bass box ... like the B&W 805 for instance
For the tweeter i would like to try some felt around it to reduce the dispersion and room reflections
Hi ! wow .., i was clearly underestimating the task I am already lowering my hopes
but i cannot get a complete satisfaction from headphones There is no front image at all It is very unnatural sensation I cannot stand more than half an hour with HPs ... only for movies are okI have to scale down my goals And i would like to re-use these lead loaded cabinets i have already I have bought a cheap endoscope to see where the lead slabs are glued to avoid to drill it It was a very rough experiment But i like the difference that lead loading has done in the bass a lot
Instruments like pipe organ and piano sound much cleaner
Very interesting ... for me the DQ10 are like a mistery In particular i would love to understand their xover but it looks so confusing to me
I have seen other xover and more or less are all quite similar ... but that of the DQ10 I have never seen the drivers connected in series in other xover Never Always in parallel
I would love to understand the design ... a real mistery to me And the feeling that most of the soundstage could have to do with it increases my curiosity a lot indeed
Also because i understand that with better drivers just 3 ways could be enough
yes. if you are building a full range speaker - 3 way should do it.
Look at this: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/3WClassic.htm
Look at this: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/3WClassic.htm
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I've been in the headphone world primarily since 2016. What headphones do you have?
If you like staging and placement of instruments - the Senn HD-800 or 800S are the champs. Used the 800 can be had for $550ish. There is a very good mod that stops the treble spike. The earlier 600 is a timbre monster, but doesn't image well. But can be had used for like $150-180. I'm quite sure these were developed on OTL tube amps - the cheap kit Bottlehead Crack makes both of them sing better than even very excellent SS amps like the Ragnarok 1 and 2, Violectric V-281, and the Bryston BHA-3 - all with lots of power, yet sound fey next to my humble Bottlehead. Neither 800 has really good impact or grunt in the bass under 75 Hz, EQ doesn't do the trick either. But on my Bottlehead you get more bass 35-60 than a SS amp.
The current best can for short money is the HFM HE-6 SE v2 on Adorma for $399. It does need an amp that puts out at least 2 wpc @ 50 ohms. It very much will do better the more SS current it gets. Its an all arounder, and needs EQ (parametric not fixed), and its not better than average on soundstage, but it does instrument separation well.
These are all my opinions, so please research and listen for yourself - if interested. The high end prices new have gone out of control. My favorite is the estat Voce - but given it needs amps that cost $5-7k to run it, it's ridiculous. Used is the way I go, but, compared to what a DIY speaker can do - not cost effective anymore.
Yes, I believe I mentioned the BMR Philharmonic kit earlier in the thread - if not, I should have. With the flat pack its maybe $1800 and would wipe the floor with a DQ-10 unless it was a 4 way with a good ribbon tweeter.
Some of the open baffle work on DIY can be excellent at even less money, but may not meet the WAF acceptance factor unless the finishing is very good.
Hi thanks again
1st another consideration on the dq10 ... i see that used go for at least 1500 Euro here in Europe plus shipping to my country Italy
That means that they have mantained a very good reputation
However if i understand well your advice there is nothing of magic in their crossover ... only a different way to do same things ?
Looking at the mentioned project 1st thing i notice is the nervous woofer behaviour I understand that peaks outside the used range can be suppressed
But why do not start with a better behaved unit anyway ?
In any case i very much love the style of the more modern Dalquist like the DQ20 What a beauty With the woofer in a box by itself
https://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads...kers-excellent-condition-woofers-refoamed.jpg
i would love to listen side by side the DQ10 and the DQ20 I wonder which one would sound better
the one i remember (they are stored away) AKG 240, 701, 500 Beyerdynamic dt 880 600 ohm, 990 250 ohm
Thanks a lot but again when i listen to stereo i get instruments and players right in front of me With HPs i guess its almost impossible
This is a common limit of any HPs ... even Stax This is just unreal and the brain struggles to get the sound picture
I struggle already for other things ... i need a comfortable listening experience Relaxing
For sure HPs are needed when i dont want to disturb other people
One day with DSP maybe it will be possible to get a very nice virtual soundstage Maybe
Its was an unusually great speaker when it came out in 1973, that's 49 years. In a decent sized room say 14' x 18' x 9', you can't get them to play over 97 db at say 9' from the speakers. The stock speaker as is, will be in rough shape. The woofer surround will be rotted, the caps might be leaking, and even if not, would be happy with a recaping - Aeon at the least. So fix the woofer surround, get a decent ribbon, cut it at the tweeter xover output, cut out the piezo portion of the xover, new caps. That's got to be $750 minimum. They also take up a lot of room visually and in reality because they want to be 3' min from the back wall.
The DQ-10 woofer is in a box by itself too. Stock? No mods? No repairs? The DQ-20 because its newer.
Bright. The Beyers of those models are very bright. The 240 has several generations. I had the early mid 80's model, lack bass, too much treble, not a realistic sound. The 500 has some bass. too much around 25 Hz actually IMO, but these days, that's desired by many.
The HD-600 has a much more realistic mid range than any of those - timbre wise. It does piano top to bottom better un-EQ'd than many headphones costing over $2k. The bass isn't enough for many, but the timbre and speed are good. Something like a ProAc Tablette.
Your headphones - I could not listen to them. Not relaxing, and not real.
Do try the Senn HD-800S, you would be very impressed with the image and placement. If not, then forget headphones. Stax at the high end are overly detailed, they call attention to everything, but its not faithful to the recording. Try instead the DCA Voce, the best headphone I have ever heard, but the amp needed - HFM Jr minimum, Blue Hawaii at the top - you are talking $5000-7500 for the amp alone, and a pretty price for the Voce too.
Hi thanks again for the precious advice. I will try to listen the Senn
The DCA are very nice i did not know them but i am reading now about them Out of my comfort zone price wise
I bet they must sound sublime by the way
This speaker can crush any DQ_10:
https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/philharmonic-bmr
https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/philharmonic-bmr
Per my experience - just the first batch of DQ-10's Thru #380. Reportedly, Jon moved away from it because it didn't meld well with the rest of the drivers (too slow). Most of the DQ-10's shipped were of the later type - thinner paper, different magnets, and they did not go as deep. Perhaps Advent built them, but they were not the same as in Lg Walnut or Util Advents of the 1975-1980 period that I had my hands on.
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