exact. in a treated room 7.5 feet away.
i wouldnt want to push these past 105db. (in my room, I cannot even really reach 90db before wanting to leave)
I wouldnt put too much trust in the limited xmax... Ive played the mid actually loud sometimes back in the days not realizing the mini dsp setting were off. the PR170MO spider seem so un-pliable as to really limit the driver to move. anyways, so far, I have no complaints but id be happy if the phl 1120 sounds better cause it has more xmax!
Theres no question of driver integration, of coherence, nor from any boominess or speed problems. Truly, to my ears, it seems 1st order solves many of the multi-ways crossover issue. These speakers sounds so fast, so dynamic, yet so pure in the mid. Its almost ridiculous how good it sound
I will be building a second pair of speakers using the same drivers, but probbaly trying the Geithain arrangement. probably wont be able to manage to build a carioid response but im curious how the point source could work here.
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Most of that is due to the efficiency of the drivers with no restive "padding". (..most resistors just do subjectively *horrible things to the result - usually worse than any other single passive crossover component in my experience. The best exception to added resistance is when it's derived from an Inductor or a really good transformer.) Low Mms (for the driver's Sd) and generally lower-excursion/larger Sd help with this as does a "minimal" suspension.These speakers sounds so fast, so dynamic, yet so pure in the mid. Its almost ridiculous how good it sound
*though the lower in efficiency the driver already is, the less negative the result.
okHello Scott,
Btw the other Scott (ScottL) if I remember used also the PR170Z0 (aerogel but with a very tiny usuable bandwidth due to more pronounced break-ups and faster low end roll off)
That PR17MO has a Xmax of a good tweeter...0,5 mm. Which is tricky for a first order. I think Youknowyou uses his speakers in a little rrom in a near field.
PHL vs Audax
green is PHL
yellow Audax
as you can see, almost identical apart from uner 400hz where the PHL show its better performance under 400hz...
im not sure i understand the first sentence. if it measure ruler flat, that clearly indicate that the room have little to no effect here...
my ears say that both the audax and phl sound incredibly good. I will listen to the PHL for a good week. so far id say both sound incredibly similar.
mesurements were taken 1.5m away from the speakers, in my treated room
the green is the PHL
Yellow is Auadx
Ive measured the Audax first, removed the audax and palced the PHL and measured. didnt play with the volume.
eidt: gap is 5db
after using the phl 1120 for 2 weeks, ive put back the audax.
all in all, the audax are more detailed, more space between instruments and more musical, with a realer tone.
the PHL sound like hi-fi, the audax sound like the real thing. Id also suggest the audax seem faster, details seem to almost flow out of the audax.
the most obvious aspect for me is how much the audax makes me wants to listen to the music: the audax gives me the: one last track before i need to go to bed. while the PHL does not entice me to listen. My brain/mind is not as wowed, nor less emotionally involve. THAT is the most important factor when you ahve a new components. Do you listen to more or less music since that component was integrated in your system. It just took me over 10 years to completely trust my ears and trust that most important aspect.
crazy how this wasnt apparent in a quick A-B session. its really after living with both midrange that i could be certain of this..
Summer Fun!
Decided to mix things up a bit and compare two completely different philosophies and directions among loudspeakers In my house. My first real DIY audio project (Econowaves circa 2009) and my current favorite speakers (Manzanitas purchased in 2021, built by @Dkalsi). Accompanied by my last class AB amp build (TubSuMo designed by the late great vzaichenko) and an ACP+. DAC is a Topping E30 and source is a SlimDevices Squeezebox.
The Econowaves certainly have the edge on treble and stereo image. The Manzies have that extra-special OB midrange and bass. Both designs are timeless and eternal for diyAudio geeks. I am very fortunate to have these to play with. And my inner adolescent can’t help but play both, simultaneously loud. 😎
Happy listening, building, and tweaking to you all.
Decided to mix things up a bit and compare two completely different philosophies and directions among loudspeakers In my house. My first real DIY audio project (Econowaves circa 2009) and my current favorite speakers (Manzanitas purchased in 2021, built by @Dkalsi). Accompanied by my last class AB amp build (TubSuMo designed by the late great vzaichenko) and an ACP+. DAC is a Topping E30 and source is a SlimDevices Squeezebox.
The Econowaves certainly have the edge on treble and stereo image. The Manzies have that extra-special OB midrange and bass. Both designs are timeless and eternal for diyAudio geeks. I am very fortunate to have these to play with. And my inner adolescent can’t help but play both, simultaneously loud. 😎
Happy listening, building, and tweaking to you all.
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Small amp for some dipole full ranges and a larger one for the bass bins, also dipole.
There's an added coloration in the full rangers that makes movie dialogue easier to understand, easily removed with the active crossover point by shifting to a 500 or 600 hertz crossover point from about 160 hertz for music, and no comb filtering from the drivers themselves.
After about 5 years, I got around to twisting the transformer lead pairs in the phonostage, and braided the one 3 wire set.
The hum is barely audible between tracks with these speakers, rated about 97db/watt.
With some 87db/watt Scanspeaks or 90db/watt Tannoys, it's not noticeable.
My crossover has a built in 32 hertz 2nd order highpass, but I managed to rattle a bass bin yesterday with only about 100 watts.
I do have extra subs and amps, so I may go three way active, and further protect things.
Not sure. I have been enjoying an all open baffle sound over cabinets here.
More summer fun!
I picked up these Proac 2.5 clones last year for free with a dead woofer, a dented tweeter, and big complicated crossovers.
After quite a bit of research, I sent the Scanspeak 18W/8535 woofers to Mike Orban of https://orbanaudio.com/ for repair. He did a fabulous job of rebuilding the coils, spiders, and leads for a very reasonable price. I realize they’re likely significantly different than stock originals, but I got them for free. They’re built well and a classic midwoofer, so why not?
I finally got to playing around with them to see how they sound. I skipped the big passive crossovers and set up a miniDSP 2x4HD to try them out. From reading about all the Troels versions, I’ve started with LR4 crossover at 3350 Hz, with a little PEQ drop at 2 kHz for the woofers.
I’m using an Ayima A04 (TPA3251) for the lows, and a SMSL SA-36A pro (TPA3118) for the highs. I have my PC that I used to configure the 2x4HD as the source using squeezelite-x for windows. Honestly, I’m surprised how good this sounds. The woofers are opening up and providing very good bass for a smallish driver.
A very different experience from my beloved Manzanitas and chock-full-of-pride Econowaves (shown in my previous post), but this is INTERESTING. I‘m enjoying this too much to measure them now, so that will come later.
I may even try these out with my better amps in the main rig this week.
Happy listening and futzing, everyone!
I picked up these Proac 2.5 clones last year for free with a dead woofer, a dented tweeter, and big complicated crossovers.
After quite a bit of research, I sent the Scanspeak 18W/8535 woofers to Mike Orban of https://orbanaudio.com/ for repair. He did a fabulous job of rebuilding the coils, spiders, and leads for a very reasonable price. I realize they’re likely significantly different than stock originals, but I got them for free. They’re built well and a classic midwoofer, so why not?
I finally got to playing around with them to see how they sound. I skipped the big passive crossovers and set up a miniDSP 2x4HD to try them out. From reading about all the Troels versions, I’ve started with LR4 crossover at 3350 Hz, with a little PEQ drop at 2 kHz for the woofers.
I’m using an Ayima A04 (TPA3251) for the lows, and a SMSL SA-36A pro (TPA3118) for the highs. I have my PC that I used to configure the 2x4HD as the source using squeezelite-x for windows. Honestly, I’m surprised how good this sounds.
The woofers are opening up and providing very good bass for a smallish driver.A very different experience from my beloved Manzanitas and chock-full-of-pride Econowaves (shown in my previous post), but this is INTERESTING. I‘m enjoying this too much to measure them now, so that will come later.
I may even try these out with my better amps in the main rig this week.
Happy listening and futzing, everyone!
Attachments
The Master Artist Signature MTM Towers in Linen Grey leather and Real Walnut Claro Figured panels. We use dual Accuton Cell Ceramic midbass and Cell Ceramic tweeter. Wired with Kimber Kable 4tc wire. We used Mundorf binding post and Parts (Including Goertz Copper Foil 12awg inductors on the woofer, ClarityCap CSA cap and Mundorf Copper Foil 16 awg inductors on the mid, and Mundorf Supreme EVO-Oil/ClarityCap CSA combo caps on tweeter, Mundorf MREsist Supreme resistors in all critical tweeter and midrange circuits) picture with speakers has my esoteric c02 preamp in it, replaced earlier in week with the burmester 077
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I did that once.
I was using a planar midrange I really liked in open baffle, but wanted to plump up the 300 hertz and up range.
It wound up in a smallish cabinet with oversized front and back back baffles and a large shallow port right behind the driver.
Worked pretty well.
I didn't know Electrovoice used baffles wider than their cabinets, front and back, or planar midrange. What model do you mean?