Cleaning the mat
Hi TubaV, rotate the 7" adapter until it pops up. You will then see the 3 screws holding the whole mat clamp & assembly down. Undo those and up she comes. All the best with the restoration. Kevin
Hi TubaV, rotate the 7" adapter until it pops up. You will then see the 3 screws holding the whole mat clamp & assembly down. Undo those and up she comes. All the best with the restoration. Kevin
Shame it's out of stock
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-Non-Detergent-SAE-30W-Lubricating-Oil-1-qt/52626201
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-Non-Detergent-SAE-30W-Lubricating-Oil-1-qt/52626201
Should be able to find such oil -in sensible volume for purpose and by top oil companies - at motorbike, lawnmower, pump shops. You can here in UK.
I aggree. I liked that version as being that cheap it should be the real deal. To refine an oil is hard work. To get it wrong is putting $1M's of plant at risk.
Now the important bit. The additives are for pressure bearings at > 5 Bar typical. They are almost like fine grit at low pressure and low temperature ( less than 90C ). This " bad " oil is ideal for us. I fear the Castrol XL30 a bit as they say having the best additives. Castrol was or is Swindon based so sorry to say that as they were a Garrard partner in the town. Castrol GTX is a remarkable oil for old or worn engines. Even can be used in Land Rover TD300. One we have has 350 000 miles using GTX ( 6000 mile max per change ). It is diesel spec for that engine! Castrol have a supurb technical department. They strongly do not recomend GTX for other diesels. That TD300 uses very little oil even now and big ends are fine. No excessive smoke. Top end is a bit worn.
Piece of trivia. F1 engines ( when V10 Renault, 5 miles from my house ) ran identical pressure as a familly car. In the old days they could run on straight oil as they didn't do long periods on that oil ( 1990 ). It could be worth a few horse powers to fine tune the grade.
Walmart have a when in stock thing so I've asked to be emailed.
Now the important bit. The additives are for pressure bearings at > 5 Bar typical. They are almost like fine grit at low pressure and low temperature ( less than 90C ). This " bad " oil is ideal for us. I fear the Castrol XL30 a bit as they say having the best additives. Castrol was or is Swindon based so sorry to say that as they were a Garrard partner in the town. Castrol GTX is a remarkable oil for old or worn engines. Even can be used in Land Rover TD300. One we have has 350 000 miles using GTX ( 6000 mile max per change ). It is diesel spec for that engine! Castrol have a supurb technical department. They strongly do not recomend GTX for other diesels. That TD300 uses very little oil even now and big ends are fine. No excessive smoke. Top end is a bit worn.
Piece of trivia. F1 engines ( when V10 Renault, 5 miles from my house ) ran identical pressure as a familly car. In the old days they could run on straight oil as they didn't do long periods on that oil ( 1990 ). It could be worth a few horse powers to fine tune the grade.
Walmart have a when in stock thing so I've asked to be emailed.
Quick question: I replaced the bushings in the main bearing of my TD 124 and there seems to be an alignment problem with the new bushings. The bearing spindle can be inserted into each respective bearing smoothly, I tried from both sides of the bearing. I would thus exclude deformation of the bronze bushings themselves. If the spindle is inserted into the bearing all the way, and thus into both bushings at the same time, the bearing pretty much seizes. Anything I can do other than get new bushings and try again?
. You are quite welcome Kevin. Glad to help and I hope it was a grand wedding!
Best,
Jim
It's probable that when the new bushes were inserted there was a degree of misalignment. When I did my last one I made up a dummy spindle (even better if you have a spare original) and used it to maintain alignment as I pushed the new bushings into place. It's inherent in the oilite bushes that they 'crush' a small amount as they are forced into position. If they are not exactly square it's likely that this will cause the 'stiffness' you are finding.
Have a look at fork oil for motorbikes.
You can get all types (synthetic, blends, conventional) in viscosity ranges from SAE 5 to 20.
It is sold in liter bottles for less than you would pay for the tiny dropper size bottles of turntable oil.
Should be able to find a wide assortment at any local motorbike shop or online.
I would agree except that the OP indicates that the spindle fits either bush individually, so it seems that they are not concentric. If using genuine Oilite bushes I've never seen any 'out of tolerance' parts' only misfitted ones.
The ID of this type of bearing is usually exact ( use the shaft to check ). The reason being they are hard to make. If one is wrong, then all are wrong. The material is most often formed from a powdered metal pressed in a die at the right temperature to just fuse the particles. Most often the ID is the question most important to the user and they size the receiving sleeve to fit. It is better to be a sliding fit and use a retaining compound. The OD can be machined ( never the ID despite what some say, if you have to make sure the bearing is oil tight as it becomes plain bronze when reamed ). One way to do this is to make up a mandrel that is a sliding fit. It must be as wobble free as possible. Clamp the bushes with a couple of spare ones. Machine off as little as possible, one can use a high grade drill and a small file if careful. Use Loctite type locking compond to finish the fit. There are ones that reseal after the heat gun is used if an error happens. The TD124 spindle will need to be in place when the loctite sets. Give it a spin from time to time to be sure it's free to turn.
Sometimes these problems are caused by " improved " bearings. They seldom beat the mass produced items sold for pennies. Machining the OD will destroy the oil retaining surface. As luck would have it's only the ID needs to be oil retaining. The Locking compound must be of the oil loving type. Loctite always say. This is not ideal, it is not a bad way to fix the problem for amature or professional alike.
If this is not your type of fix and the bearings are in place you can ream them. SAE30 will work in a plain bearing. The TD124 is only like it is to allow for dry bearings that can be rescued if serviced ( customers too timid to learn ). The Rega is plain bronze and is excellent. Don't replace the bearings in your TD124 unless sure they are wrong. They should be loose when dry. A Rizla cigarette paper would fit in the dry gap. If any tighter the oil is degraded after a few days. The oil is the bearing rather than the metal. If you make the perfect bearing as the turntable world hype says it will take an hour to come to speed. In the process the oil has had a bad time albeit no load ( or oil too thick ). The oil is like tadpoles if a traditional fraction. On a rotating bearing they swim around the shaft after a few minutes if the gap is the right gap to be the ideal working. Modern cheap bar metal is often lets say 9.95mm, that works rather well with 10 mm ID. Often a bearing made that way isn't too bad. It's not recomended, it is often annoyingly good. The hardness of the shaft in the right bearing is mostly unimportant, 55 Rockwell C is OK as in cheap heat treated steel ( Linn/SME 64 ). The thrust is important. The TD124 for all of it's faults is corect in every way when the bearing. The ball at the bottom, has double error which Linn avoid. In exchange the ball can be ideal and cheap. Tap the ball to get a new surface. I pull my hair out when people think they can improve a TD124 bearing, mostly you can't. The right oil can. Even if scored the bearing can be lapped. If the bearing is oil tight mostly a lapped bearing can still offer good performance. Use SAE 20 perhaps if a lapped bearing. Never switch the turntable off so as not to have a 1 hour run up. PYE records and the BBC never switched their 301's off. Their bearings and idlers show very little wear 50 years on.
One bearing improvement that could work is a bearing warming device. I suspect 3 watts would be enough. Wants to be about 40C. Insulated heating wire comes to mind.
Sometimes these problems are caused by " improved " bearings. They seldom beat the mass produced items sold for pennies. Machining the OD will destroy the oil retaining surface. As luck would have it's only the ID needs to be oil retaining. The Locking compound must be of the oil loving type. Loctite always say. This is not ideal, it is not a bad way to fix the problem for amature or professional alike.
If this is not your type of fix and the bearings are in place you can ream them. SAE30 will work in a plain bearing. The TD124 is only like it is to allow for dry bearings that can be rescued if serviced ( customers too timid to learn ). The Rega is plain bronze and is excellent. Don't replace the bearings in your TD124 unless sure they are wrong. They should be loose when dry. A Rizla cigarette paper would fit in the dry gap. If any tighter the oil is degraded after a few days. The oil is the bearing rather than the metal. If you make the perfect bearing as the turntable world hype says it will take an hour to come to speed. In the process the oil has had a bad time albeit no load ( or oil too thick ). The oil is like tadpoles if a traditional fraction. On a rotating bearing they swim around the shaft after a few minutes if the gap is the right gap to be the ideal working. Modern cheap bar metal is often lets say 9.95mm, that works rather well with 10 mm ID. Often a bearing made that way isn't too bad. It's not recomended, it is often annoyingly good. The hardness of the shaft in the right bearing is mostly unimportant, 55 Rockwell C is OK as in cheap heat treated steel ( Linn/SME 64 ). The thrust is important. The TD124 for all of it's faults is corect in every way when the bearing. The ball at the bottom, has double error which Linn avoid. In exchange the ball can be ideal and cheap. Tap the ball to get a new surface. I pull my hair out when people think they can improve a TD124 bearing, mostly you can't. The right oil can. Even if scored the bearing can be lapped. If the bearing is oil tight mostly a lapped bearing can still offer good performance. Use SAE 20 perhaps if a lapped bearing. Never switch the turntable off so as not to have a 1 hour run up. PYE records and the BBC never switched their 301's off. Their bearings and idlers show very little wear 50 years on.
One bearing improvement that could work is a bearing warming device. I suspect 3 watts would be enough. Wants to be about 40C. Insulated heating wire comes to mind.
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It might need a thicker oil like SAE20 at 40C ( Walmart $3, no fancy stuff ).
A bit of fun that works. I lived next to USAF Upper Heyford. Most neighbours were Americans. They always wanted the temperature converted. 16C = 61F and 28C = 82F and that is the UK Spring to Summer nice temperatures. - 40C = -40F which is about is the limit if Canada or Alaska where humans dare to live. 100F for the bearing looks about right for a TD124. The Greenhouse heating wire could give uniform heat. Human body temperature perhaps.
A bit of fun that works. I lived next to USAF Upper Heyford. Most neighbours were Americans. They always wanted the temperature converted. 16C = 61F and 28C = 82F and that is the UK Spring to Summer nice temperatures. - 40C = -40F which is about is the limit if Canada or Alaska where humans dare to live. 100F for the bearing looks about right for a TD124. The Greenhouse heating wire could give uniform heat. Human body temperature perhaps.
The original bearing oil was close to SAE 22 wt oil and the oil I have used has generally been either SAE 20 wt 3 in 1 or SAE 30 wt non detergent oil which I have found to be too heavy except in the summer months. (I think it sounds better with the heavier oil though) I sometimes mix the two, that seems to be a good compromise.
To be effective I think the bearing would have to heated on a continuous basis or at some point in time well prior to use to get it warm enough to make a difference.
To be effective I think the bearing would have to heated on a continuous basis or at some point in time well prior to use to get it warm enough to make a difference.
To my recollection the Brinkman turntable is permanently heated (and I certainly would like to explore this idea further but do not have enough know-how to do so: so any reports, tips and hints will be very welcome).
It would be fun to make a very simple thermostat. The only problem I see with that is mains voltage. As a small PSU costs $10 make it low voltage from the start. A Schmitt Trigger and some form of non linear resistance should be all it needs. I seem to remember a NE555 will do the job. If I am also right NE555 can do nearly 400 mA if the open collector transistor is combined with the output pin. As we are not reseting to make a square wave that option is possible. 300 mA @ 15 V = 4.5 watts. I dare say the Vce etc will be 2V inside the NE555 giving more like 3 watts to heat the bearing. That should be enough? A relay if not. 2V x 300 mA is 600 mW. I guess that is OK for a NE555. Cheap to find out.
I have just dragged a long redundant Thorens Td124/II out from my small collection of record players and measures the shaft.
The main sintered bronze plain bearing has an ID of 14 mm. The shaft measured 13.985 mm OD, giving a clearance of 0.015 mm or .0006 inch, which is a little finer than a fag paper.
The deck had not been used in the 30 years I've had it and I guess had not been used too much previously, it was pretty much gummed up.
