Ah good. You will report if you like Kaamelott !
IIRC Slow Food is Italian but becomes international. When I know than in India 70% of the vegetables are wasted because they are not able to transform it, I cry !
Sealing wax is ok, we don't go every day to Opera
... And you know there are some pulsed light tools today... For me, Gilete is too late even if wife can be "rasoir" !
IIRC Slow Food is Italian but becomes international. When I know than in India 70% of the vegetables are wasted because they are not able to transform it, I cry !
Sealing wax is ok, we don't go every day to Opera
... And you know there are some pulsed light tools today... For me, Gilete is too late even if wife can be "rasoir" !No ! No subtitles when looking french comedy. I love the stress understanding what is being said. I am proud of the french for being what they are: stubborn and persisting in their culture. I think it has certain values I like. The slow food movement vs. fast food for instance
Slow Food France
Please understand that even if I can't relate to your methods I still like the stubborn way you plough through heaps of caps on your V3.
Cordialement,
JP
PS if the wife needs a "pince à épiler" often she better switches to a "Gilette". Just a tip
Attachments
Androa,
I have a very good trade off with the two 10 uf MZ Muse : they have not the magic of the 20 uF but have no harchness and a good mix between crisp and timbre in the treble and stay confortable ! Tell me what you feel instead the SAL-RPM ! Timbres are acurate in thickness and the tonal balance is good at home (my main concern with setups !)
Because of the fantastic result in the bass of the 20 uf KZ Muse at c/8/c13, I will try two 20 uF in serie +--+ arrengement to compare with a standalone KZ Muse 10 uF.
ok the inductance will be catastrophic but it coud be also a good idea for two SEP in serie to avoid them to oscillate ! I know Gary like 20 uF SEPC here iirc (despite the very low esr). I have not 4 20 uf SEP on hands but will try with 4 SEPC i have yet !
Androa, what happen when we get off the 1 uF decoupling ceramic of C36/C32 for just a MKS2 ???? J-P don't you try when you worked on it before editing the BOM ?
I have a very good trade off with the two 10 uf MZ Muse : they have not the magic of the 20 uF but have no harchness and a good mix between crisp and timbre in the treble and stay confortable ! Tell me what you feel instead the SAL-RPM ! Timbres are acurate in thickness and the tonal balance is good at home (my main concern with setups !)
Because of the fantastic result in the bass of the 20 uf KZ Muse at c/8/c13, I will try two 20 uF in serie +--+ arrengement to compare with a standalone KZ Muse 10 uF.
ok the inductance will be catastrophic but it coud be also a good idea for two SEP in serie to avoid them to oscillate ! I know Gary like 20 uF SEPC here iirc (despite the very low esr). I have not 4 20 uf SEP on hands but will try with 4 SEPC i have yet !
Androa, what happen when we get off the 1 uF decoupling ceramic of C36/C32 for just a MKS2 ???? J-P don't you try when you worked on it before editing the BOM ?
Last edited:
Thanks Eldam...No need to.
I am finished with Subbu dac. Maximmum is probably reched. Spinning around caps brought some tonality difference and small improvement compare to what i am looking for.
I change AVCC to belleson but oscilated a little bit. TPS7A... is now in that position with no big cap at output just as Texas suggested and 1uf and 10nfPPS in supply pins. Sound has some more energy, some more weigth as with MIC. When you ad large cap at output, sound become similar as with MIC...sound of capacitor, you feel some tension.
Clock reg is adp151...
I measured Audio Gd dac by my friend. At OS2 sqare is similar to NOS dacs... 8OS has traditional pre and post ringing like and sund is some more intense but still very good 3D.
2OS and filter1 for wm8741 is reaxed 3d sounding. Some more finese and microdynamic and right timbre(colour of instruments) are missing. For that i must go deeper in wallet
Eldam you still haven*t told me how does it R2R sounds like?
This is the right description of my wishes...but saddly not with es9023 dac (maybe also not with soekris R2R)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vend...e-r-2r-sign-magnitude-24-bit-384-khz-128.html SebastianL description is what i try to say.
For comparison, maybe one of some reasons for difference in sound
1. Audio Gd17.32 nfb OS2 filter1 square response 1khz
2. Subbu dac square response 1khz
I am finished with Subbu dac. Maximmum is probably reched. Spinning around caps brought some tonality difference and small improvement compare to what i am looking for.
I change AVCC to belleson but oscilated a little bit. TPS7A... is now in that position with no big cap at output just as Texas suggested and 1uf and 10nfPPS in supply pins. Sound has some more energy, some more weigth as with MIC. When you ad large cap at output, sound become similar as with MIC...sound of capacitor, you feel some tension.
Clock reg is adp151...
I measured Audio Gd dac by my friend. At OS2 sqare is similar to NOS dacs... 8OS has traditional pre and post ringing like and sund is some more intense but still very good 3D.
2OS and filter1 for wm8741 is reaxed 3d sounding. Some more finese and microdynamic and right timbre(colour of instruments) are missing. For that i must go deeper in wallet
Eldam you still haven*t told me how does it R2R sounds like?
This is the right description of my wishes...but saddly not with es9023 dac (maybe also not with soekris R2R)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vend...e-r-2r-sign-magnitude-24-bit-384-khz-128.html SebastianL description is what i try to say.
For comparison, maybe one of some reasons for difference in sound
1. Audio Gd17.32 nfb OS2 filter1 square response 1khz
2. Subbu dac square response 1khz
Attachments
Last edited:
Androa,
The 100 nF with any other value (10 uF, 4.7 uF or 1 uF (the acrylic) before the Micrel on the AVCC must be avoided IMO: ringing, too thin high-medium :digital sound.... at least at home ! de colored tonal balance despite a better mid bass and some clearness in the highs but very bad at ears ! And the mid-bass are too low in timing (desseapper fastly): surmise the difference of our systeme here : speakers !
Worked to follow your advice about c8/c13 ! SEP 10 uF are still give me good result despite the low capacitance on c13 in relation the 47 uf you advised. I can't hear any sibilance or ringing with them just a little lacke of dynamic but they are still soft on my system.
But the better result is my BOM with c8 AND C13 : 22 uf//10 uF both KZ Muse ! Splendid ! C8 despite the only 10 uF has a great improvement here : good balance and tonal colar and dynamic on strings, harmonica, saxo, piano : very hard instruments !
Stock PS rocks already with the 47 uF Black-Gate I advised on my BOM : no need of another PS for better transcient but if it improve clearness (transparency) more !
I will follow with C2 advices. (Panasonic FR, FM, OSCON SP, Rubycon ZL, Panasonic HZ of the same value you advised.
regards
The 100 nF with any other value (10 uF, 4.7 uF or 1 uF (the acrylic) before the Micrel on the AVCC must be avoided IMO: ringing, too thin high-medium :digital sound.... at least at home ! de colored tonal balance despite a better mid bass and some clearness in the highs but very bad at ears ! And the mid-bass are too low in timing (desseapper fastly): surmise the difference of our systeme here : speakers !
Worked to follow your advice about c8/c13 ! SEP 10 uF are still give me good result despite the low capacitance on c13 in relation the 47 uf you advised. I can't hear any sibilance or ringing with them just a little lacke of dynamic but they are still soft on my system.
But the better result is my BOM with c8 AND C13 : 22 uf//10 uF both KZ Muse ! Splendid ! C8 despite the only 10 uF has a great improvement here : good balance and tonal colar and dynamic on strings, harmonica, saxo, piano : very hard instruments !
Stock PS rocks already with the 47 uF Black-Gate I advised on my BOM : no need of another PS for better transcient but if it improve clearness (transparency) more !
I will follow with C2 advices. (Panasonic FR, FM, OSCON SP, Rubycon ZL, Panasonic HZ of the same value you advised.
regards
Last edited:
Hi, what is the load ? Could you show plots measured with the same device ?
BTW I stopped listening to square waves, they give me a headache
Last edited:
Eldam
Our dacs are completely different. C2 is 1000uf FP and before AVCC also 1000uF FP and after mic 1000uf FP. Also supplies are different. I don*t use original one ( but i have borrowed one for comparrison).
With 100uf before mic and 470UF after MIC on AVCC sound is 6-9khz anoying sharp...i agree. My taste is little darker tonal balance.
Oscillation is not always hearable as thin hissing sound... I have never sad that with SP ist thin ...it is dark and soft... *wooly*.
J.P.
Audio gd load was emu 0404 soundcard acuu suplied not wall adapter supplied and Subbu load was amplifier with 20kohm pot.
Square sample picture is nothing bad...even es9018 has pre and post ringing, even audio gd has it on 4 and 8xOS.
PS.. J.P. is your proposal still valid?
Today i made TPS7A4 (from MRAVLCA) ... main PS. Very good, even less noise than very low noise original Subbu one.
PS ... lines must be opposite connected, picture was made just for sample look.
My Subbu mission is closed. I reinstall mic 3.6V back to AVCC and i left ADP for clock and it goes away to next listener in next days.
Our dacs are completely different. C2 is 1000uf FP and before AVCC also 1000uF FP and after mic 1000uf FP. Also supplies are different. I don*t use original one ( but i have borrowed one for comparrison).
With 100uf before mic and 470UF after MIC on AVCC sound is 6-9khz anoying sharp...i agree. My taste is little darker tonal balance.
Oscillation is not always hearable as thin hissing sound... I have never sad that with SP ist thin ...it is dark and soft... *wooly*.
J.P.
Audio gd load was emu 0404 soundcard acuu suplied not wall adapter supplied and Subbu load was amplifier with 20kohm pot.
Square sample picture is nothing bad...even es9018 has pre and post ringing, even audio gd has it on 4 and 8xOS.
PS.. J.P. is your proposal still valid?
Today i made TPS7A4 (from MRAVLCA) ... main PS. Very good, even less noise than very low noise original Subbu one.
PS ... lines must be opposite connected, picture was made just for sample look.
My Subbu mission is closed. I reinstall mic 3.6V back to AVCC and i left ADP for clock and it goes away to next listener in next days.
Attachments
Last edited:
Putting a 100nF cap for decoupling is almost always a bad idea because it will resonate with almost any other capacitor around, screwing up transient response and increasing HF noise. If it is at the output of a regulator the impedance peak that is a result boosts regulator open loop gain at a frequency where there is no phase margin, giving at best marginal stability and a noise peak, at worst oscillation.
Peufeu,
I understood you finally get one Subbu from Korben69,
After tryed the 100 nf X7r before the micrel at AVCC and finally a strong and good OSCONS SP I like at c22 : 820/4, the sound became better but still with a too thin high medium and distorsion with attacks and a general too high sibilance. I like the 1 uF PPS and the original choice of the genuine BOM as well. I have not the patience, but I believe a little help before the avcc micrel with something 0.33 PPS or 0.47 uF before it added (in the way Davorin made) should give something good - more dynamic and mid-bass control ! I should stay with PPS or acrylic !
I have also some PS from À les (Mravica member)... I should try between ! Nice self... so 22 u H !
I understood you finally get one Subbu from Korben69,
After tryed the 100 nf X7r before the micrel at AVCC and finally a strong and good OSCONS SP I like at c22 : 820/4, the sound became better but still with a too thin high medium and distorsion with attacks and a general too high sibilance. I like the 1 uF PPS and the original choice of the genuine BOM as well. I have not the patience, but I believe a little help before the avcc micrel with something 0.33 PPS or 0.47 uF before it added (in the way Davorin made) should give something good - more dynamic and mid-bass control ! I should stay with PPS or acrylic !
I have also some PS from À les (Mravica member)... I should try between ! Nice self... so 22 u H !
Never knew that the french word for coil is "self" until Peufeu measured my PSU which contains coils.
I told you that i don*t have 100uf oscon before MIC.
I show on other thread that 100uf low esr like oscon...fp... and 100nF make resonannt circuit at arround 200khz (around 1 inch of line help a lot, 600r 0805 or 2r2 0805 solve it completely)... some guy experimented a lot with bypassing... around 200 different graph has shown in his test.
Therefore i have 1000uf before all mic and after AVVC mic 1000uf and on AVCC pins 1uf an 10nPPS. But could be that result is maybe with original subbu PS not so good ... haven*t tried.
I use accu or TPS for sound testing and lt1085 for technicall mesurement at workshop.
I recommendet stop (modifying) running in circle. Tonnality can be changed but that is not enough. Subbu is good dac ... i will have it as my second dac.
Have anybody tried 0.1F or 0.33F (larger esr 10-20R)on AVCC es9023?
My next (wish) project ... small pc or beaglebone... linux ...i2s out ... isolator...reclocker... i2s input dac.
I show on other thread that 100uf low esr like oscon...fp... and 100nF make resonannt circuit at arround 200khz (around 1 inch of line help a lot, 600r 0805 or 2r2 0805 solve it completely)... some guy experimented a lot with bypassing... around 200 different graph has shown in his test.
Therefore i have 1000uf before all mic and after AVVC mic 1000uf and on AVCC pins 1uf an 10nPPS. But could be that result is maybe with original subbu PS not so good ... haven*t tried.
I use accu or TPS for sound testing and lt1085 for technicall mesurement at workshop.
I recommendet stop (modifying) running in circle. Tonnality can be changed but that is not enough. Subbu is good dac ... i will have it as my second dac.
Have anybody tried 0.1F or 0.33F (larger esr 10-20R)on AVCC es9023?
My next (wish) project ... small pc or beaglebone... linux ...i2s out ... isolator...reclocker... i2s input dac.
Yeap saw the photograph and have myself the Mravica regs, so can understand why c2 at 1000 uf !
Take care to the BBB, it seems to have problems with high sampling rates like the Raspi due directly to the layout (but can be MCLK slaved so interresting to rule this nano noise factory)! I'm lookink for myself a nanoboard to swap my SB Duet (limited at 48 Khz hardware + dowsampling made by the Logitech Media server for any Superior rate than 48 Khz ! Not really a problem but would like to test some sampling made by soft as the one made by hardware seems needing high capacity... but have a non understanding about that ! ) . Let stay in contact ! We are looking on the same direction !
Btw on the bench : two TDA 1541 board (one AYA 2 2014 I advise you : Pedja re opened a subscription at 30 euros a board (has uf-L connectors) ; the Distinction-1541 which was a collective project here one year ago to have a better pcb than the EBay's kits with tda-1541 ! but believe it's below the Pedja's one. And has a AD1862 double monoboard (with DATA R/L splitted also !)...
And if it's not enough the dam1021 I try to sell lacking time to play with digital toys and alliasing, digital curves programmation and nervous breakdown as I have only two arms and half of a brain ! Still Learning English but have a sota professor with J-P !)
Of course the Subbu is a good dac, I have two ! But I have fear as JP makes measurement with our french Peufeu now.... coil is self in french, and selfique effect in french is not an ego crisis, etc : understanding together is important when you develop something (pincette= brucelles =not: Bruxelles (a city !)! Hope Subbu and JP are still maried for a futur little cheap DAC (hey we need a streamer to swab our SB !)
Take care to the BBB, it seems to have problems with high sampling rates like the Raspi due directly to the layout (but can be MCLK slaved so interresting to rule this nano noise factory)! I'm lookink for myself a nanoboard to swap my SB Duet (limited at 48 Khz hardware + dowsampling made by the Logitech Media server for any Superior rate than 48 Khz ! Not really a problem but would like to test some sampling made by soft as the one made by hardware seems needing high capacity... but have a non understanding about that ! ) . Let stay in contact ! We are looking on the same direction !
Btw on the bench : two TDA 1541 board (one AYA 2 2014 I advise you : Pedja re opened a subscription at 30 euros a board (has uf-L connectors) ; the Distinction-1541 which was a collective project here one year ago to have a better pcb than the EBay's kits with tda-1541 ! but believe it's below the Pedja's one. And has a AD1862 double monoboard (with DATA R/L splitted also !)...
And if it's not enough the dam1021 I try to sell lacking time to play with digital toys and alliasing, digital curves programmation and nervous breakdown as I have only two arms and half of a brain ! Still Learning English but have a sota professor with J-P !)
Of course the Subbu is a good dac, I have two ! But I have fear as JP makes measurement with our french Peufeu now.... coil is self in french, and selfique effect in french is not an ego crisis, etc : understanding together is important when you develop something (pincette= brucelles =not: Bruxelles (a city !)! Hope Subbu and JP are still maried for a futur little cheap DAC (hey we need a streamer to swab our SB !)
Last edited:
At least at my ears... no problems at all. Peufeu, I was just talking about the new PS J-P sent to you for measureent... Gary made one with the same new reg LT chip JP uses more than 6 months ago with also good results !
The stocks two PCBS of the V3 Can be tweaked simply to find the good spice & curry to adapt the sound to the rest of the system. Happy with the stock pcbs with just some few others choices of caps (but they change a lot of things finally !).
Well born lamb, just add the curry then eat... let some cuts for the others days ! Suffisant for 16/44 materials I have !
The stocks two PCBS of the V3 Can be tweaked simply to find the good spice & curry to adapt the sound to the rest of the system. Happy with the stock pcbs with just some few others choices of caps (but they change a lot of things finally !).
Well born lamb, just add the curry then eat... let some cuts for the others days ! Suffisant for 16/44 materials I have !
Last edited:
Just tried Elna Electrolytic 100uf at C22 and found it to be very good compared to Nichicon 470uf.
Just wanted to check if I can use Elna Silmic II 100uf, 16V ? Please let me know your inputs for 16V vs 25V vs 35V?
Secondly, I am using Sal-RPM Series at C8, C13, C21 and would like to use Elna Silmic II 10uf, 16V but BOM has suggested 35V. Any difference between 16v vs 35v? (Sound Quality)
Please give guidance in selecting the correct capacitor.
Just wanted to check if I can use Elna Silmic II 100uf, 16V ? Please let me know your inputs for 16V vs 25V vs 35V?
Secondly, I am using Sal-RPM Series at C8, C13, C21 and would like to use Elna Silmic II 10uf, 16V but BOM has suggested 35V. Any difference between 16v vs 35v? (Sound Quality)
Please give guidance in selecting the correct capacitor.
This is a digital design you need ceramic decoupling caps as digital must be decoupled, you also need reservoir caps, here tants will do the job...
Why you don't want them I don't know but it goes against sensible engineering practice and is totally at odds with getting the best digital signal integrity.....