Perhaps because you're not reading the literature? I'd start with Floyd Toole's book, the papers by Sean Olive, and the interesting stuff from Earl Geddes. There's a lot of great speaker testing going on at NRC, and some superb products have resulted.
I'm with you on this, totally.
Last weekend I spent Fri night and all day Saturday listening/studying the sound of a $20k+ Naim sytem....Naim speakers, Naim amp, and Naim preamp/streamer.
On first inspection this system is dead clean, dead accurate BUT it lacks LIFE ! to the point of being boring, and to my ear dissatisfying.
Adding my filters to power, signal and speaker cables, this system became listenable and long term enjoyable.
Gone was the inhibited/overly polite 2D representation, and restored was dynamics and holographic soundfield, and most importantly for me (and GF) happy groove factor throughout the house and outdoor entertainment area.
I need to invent a Groove Factor meter !.
Dan.
Good grief, here they go preaching again - read this, read that... and just completely ignored the question.
Of course I have never heard of Floyd Toole and that conversation I had with that guy, what was his name, Earl something? Shish.
It's getting a bit monotonous, assume everybody is an idiot and falsely claim the moral high ground... sounds so elitist.
I don't quite understand your last statement, no dissing intended.
Given the opportunity I would love to meet JC in person, and take a listen to his systems....maybe I could show him some intersting stuff...you too.
Really interesting is modifying the sound of a 200kW+ PA system on the fly !!!.....because I can, lol.
Well you will see this forum is full of cases of people linking to gargantuan files instead of using the upload facility and users complaining. In all other cases the OP has apologised and either re-sized the original or used the upload facility. So I'm not alone and despite Joe wishing he was more important its no obsession.
I also ask people on public transport to vacate their seats for pregnant women if they are being complete ****s about it. If that is the 'hallmark of brilliance' I'll get the T-shirt made
next time I'll just assume the std English position 'sorry old chap, this really skews the view on my browser, could you resize please' and leave it at that.
It is not always as bad as that. There are techniques where server or browser can be designed to send/accept compressed files. It's a "complicated" technology/environment. If there's anyone to blame for ignorance, it should be the web developer. As a user, especially mobile device user, I think you need to choose a browser which has big concern on the issue. May be Opera.
JC AFAIK has dismissed DBT in general including listening to a variety of music at leisure over a period of time with just NO peeking allowed.
My usual improvement for PA's are earplugs.
If more people used them we'd have a lot higher incidence of adequate high-frequency hearing.My usual improvement for PA's are earplugs.
I'm dealing right now with a situation in which subjective reviewers have missed, or even preferred, a phono stage that commences a rolloff due to overdamping of the nominal cartridge at 6.8kHz. That is, -3dB already at that frequency. Clearly the designer did not understand cartridge loading.
And no one has noticed. Not the manufacturer, not the reviewers, not the blurbistas (the latter no surprise of course). This means, to me, that just about everyone has practically no HF hearing left, probably from chronic listening at too-high levels.
Isn't painting not photography?
The first second I saw the picture I felt something was wrong with it. IMO every painting of nature should be natural. It must obey Physics. Where the horizon is, where the sun/light is, etc. etc.
Regarding attention to detail, it should be, especially if we remember the 7-layer principle of classic painting.
"Of course" is a funny way to put it. Do you dismiss the work of respected audio engineers out of hand? I expect your conversation with Earl went like JC's conversation with Bob Pease.
Been here before, knew a tech from ***** Labs, had no degree, imagined he got no respect, and developed a big chip on his shoulder even though he was a smart guy and did very good original work.
Do give that completely worn out record a break, would you SY-FI, you are now reproducing the mat? It appears that in contrast with you I don't need to peek to know I am hearing or not whatever when I play one of several CDs I dearly love, play often and know very well what can be there with proper playback and what may be missing. I know exactly what comes when, but this is obviously valid only for a few favorite CDs and in comparison with my own system.
Then again, my own system is all that really interests me, that's what I have and use day in and day out. On the other hand, I am always on the lookout for even better devices, and I am curious.
And frankly, I don't give a damn what something measures like in comparison with whatever else. In the case I mentioned, John's 1205 power amp, I never bothered to measure iz anyway, I was at once aware of its sonic merits when it did everything just like my regular amp, plus or minus a possible difference which meant nothing in total for the sound. Measurements can be useful in pointing you towards the bottlneck inside that amp, such as for example lack of available current, or instability with highly reactive loads, or some such. If I was developing it, I would have made the measurements, but as things turned out, it didn't need measurements to work well, it simply went on about its business.
Last edited:
The whole idea that consciousness and intellect can be defined within parameters that are de-facto 1100% proven to possess fully blown factors of precognition and non-linear time makes the idea of opinion, fact, DBT or sighted listening as an argument..
..it makes all that infantile in the extreme. Denial at it's best. Inability to follow logic, or desire to blind one's self to logic.
Worse than meaningless. Far far worse. A direct affront and forced ignorance, ignorance in self and impressed up on all others.
A form of mental rape, if you will. A forced rape on reason and intellect.
..it makes all that infantile in the extreme. Denial at it's best. Inability to follow logic, or desire to blind one's self to logic.
Worse than meaningless. Far far worse. A direct affront and forced ignorance, ignorance in self and impressed up on all others.
A form of mental rape, if you will. A forced rape on reason and intellect.
Last edited:
(This is a side outcome from some measurements intended for Scott’s concerns over cartridge efficiency)
SY is right. Resistive loading greatly alters the frequency response of cartridges with high inductance coils. Freq response of low inductance cartridges remain less affected.
There is no mystery. Measurements (as the attachments) follow closely LR simulation results.
George
Attachments
KBK & DVV: wow, hyperbole much?
DVV--you're perfectly well "allowed" to enjoy your system as you wish. Need no one's permission! If nothing else, I would hope everyone enjoys their musical experiences. But please don't tell me this or that is better with any sort of suggestion of universality or objectivity, unless you're willing to contend with DBT's or some other form of effective de-biasing the test subjects AND researchers.
KBK--while you can perhaps live in a relative world where the whims and fantasies of your mind are good enough, I really really like my reality to be grounded from a perspective OUTSIDE of myself.
DVV--you're perfectly well "allowed" to enjoy your system as you wish. Need no one's permission! If nothing else, I would hope everyone enjoys their musical experiences. But please don't tell me this or that is better with any sort of suggestion of universality or objectivity, unless you're willing to contend with DBT's or some other form of effective de-biasing the test subjects AND researchers.
KBK--while you can perhaps live in a relative world where the whims and fantasies of your mind are good enough, I really really like my reality to be grounded from a perspective OUTSIDE of myself.
Last edited:
And yet the manufacturer claims response to 20kHz, while loading a 1.3kohm + 700mHy cartridge with the equivalent at high frequencies of about 24kohm! With the stated C loading, that equates to an electrical response down 13.5dB at 20kHz! With the stated loading C of the preamp, -3dBr at 7.3kHz.
I am sure they used a signal generator and not a cartridge to determine the specifications.
Of course there is no mystery, other than why no one notices, with the cartridge, the absence of at least an entire top octave!
If I correct the loading, I'm bracing for the complaint that the top end is suddenly tizzy. Unless, as I have suggested, hardly anyone has any auditory response up there anymore.
I am not telling you anything else other that I do not need DBT for my own practical use.
If something sounds good to me, it will do so independently of any test by anybody excpet if that somebody is using a mirror of ym system with only one variable change (e.g. he has different speakers). On the other hand, of what practical use is a verdict from a jury listening to a system which looks nothing like mine? If you need that kind of perspective from outside of yourself, that's your business, but what happens when you get a response which is quite opposite to your views? A clash between "subjective" and "objective"?
BTW, there is NO debiased jury, because each and every one of them has an idea of what he likes and does not like, so all you're doing is asking for an "average" view from a group of people. Put yourself into any jury you care to mention, and tell me, does being a part of the jury in any way change your views on wht is good sound, and what is not? In the end, if you don't like what you hear, how will you know whether it's the amp or the speaker falling short?
DBT is just so much crap put forward by wanna-bes to pull more wool over the public eyes not because it's silly or meaningless, but because it a panacea for all our audio troubles. And it's pushed on by people who have nothing specfic to say, and nobody's interested in what they do have to say.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.