If you can budget for Alpair 7.3's, then that's the way to go for FH3's. There will be no compromise in fidelity, just SPL's. That would be an excellent place to start.
jeff
Here's my opinions;
Speakers, note, I have made all 3 designs below.
TABAQ for 3" speakers; It gets the most bass possible out of a 3" speaker, but it still will not be loud enough or low enough for your room without a sub.
FH3 with a 4" speaker; I made mine with Mark Audio CHR70 drivers. This gave good bass down to about 50 hz. at moderate volume levels.
I made mine with Home Depot 3/4" maple veneer plywood (poplar wood core) with good success.
I now use Pensils with Mark Audio 10P drivers, but that is out of the budget audio range.
New full range drivers will sound harsh and have weak bass out of the box. The sound will get much better as they get played and the suspension loosens up.
Amplifier;
Used stereo receivers are easily available. Look for a decent brand, one that is heavy (large conventional power supply), and uses discreet output transistors. Since most people want Home Theater systems now, high quality used stereo electronics have become very cheap.
Speakers, note, I have made all 3 designs below.
TABAQ for 3" speakers; It gets the most bass possible out of a 3" speaker, but it still will not be loud enough or low enough for your room without a sub.
FH3 with a 4" speaker; I made mine with Mark Audio CHR70 drivers. This gave good bass down to about 50 hz. at moderate volume levels.
I made mine with Home Depot 3/4" maple veneer plywood (poplar wood core) with good success.
I now use Pensils with Mark Audio 10P drivers, but that is out of the budget audio range.
New full range drivers will sound harsh and have weak bass out of the box. The sound will get much better as they get played and the suspension loosens up.
Amplifier;
Used stereo receivers are easily available. Look for a decent brand, one that is heavy (large conventional power supply), and uses discreet output transistors. Since most people want Home Theater systems now, high quality used stereo electronics have become very cheap.
Ed,
Thank you very much for your reply. It's appreciated.
I understand that the budget and current plan is fairly limited-ing.
But ultimately, I am hoping to continue my latest addiction as an adjunct to my current vocation. Being a Woodwright now for 25 years, has left me somewhat bored with furniture and cabinetry. Don't get me wrong, I do love it, but exploring custom speaker fabrication holds a great deal of interest, and by extension, so does the notion of high quality voice/instrument reproduction at bargian basement prices. It's just exciting.
Thank you very much for your reply. It's appreciated.
I understand that the budget and current plan is fairly limited-ing.
But ultimately, I am hoping to continue my latest addiction as an adjunct to my current vocation. Being a Woodwright now for 25 years, has left me somewhat bored with furniture and cabinetry. Don't get me wrong, I do love it, but exploring custom speaker fabrication holds a great deal of interest, and by extension, so does the notion of high quality voice/instrument reproduction at bargian basement prices. It's just exciting.
If you want a woodworking challenge make a synergy, lots of oblique angles etc and use artistic interpretation to put an interesting external casing around the main horn.
Design spreadsheet for cut angles here
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=19.0
This is not just for interesting looks and woodworking challenge. It is perhaps the best sounding speaker you can make when done right.
Design spreadsheet for cut angles here
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=19.0
This is not just for interesting looks and woodworking challenge. It is perhaps the best sounding speaker you can make when done right.
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Hi,
If you really intend starting with the speakers as a trial, I wouldn't be looking at anything but a second hand 'classic' amplifier to drive them. There are loads of amps on eBay and, perhaps I have been lucky, but I have never had one that didn't work. Some great amps from Sony, Pioneer etc which would also have a few inputs if you decide to run some of your other equipment into it.
I strongly suspect that they would sound better than any of the cheap chinese digital amps too. For under $50 you can get some really good things. I have a Sony TA-F300 that I got as part of a package (amp, tuner, cassette, CDP, graphic equaliser and speakers) all for €40. About the same in dollars. It sounds terrific driving KEF 101s.
That would allow you to relax and concentrate on the speakers.
If you really intend starting with the speakers as a trial, I wouldn't be looking at anything but a second hand 'classic' amplifier to drive them. There are loads of amps on eBay and, perhaps I have been lucky, but I have never had one that didn't work. Some great amps from Sony, Pioneer etc which would also have a few inputs if you decide to run some of your other equipment into it.
I strongly suspect that they would sound better than any of the cheap chinese digital amps too. For under $50 you can get some really good things. I have a Sony TA-F300 that I got as part of a package (amp, tuner, cassette, CDP, graphic equaliser and speakers) all for €40. About the same in dollars. It sounds terrific driving KEF 101s.
That would allow you to relax and concentrate on the speakers.
Gus,
You know, I am really starting to see the sense in this. I was just trying to full fill the iPod-amp-speakers combination under the diy-hi fidelity umbrella.
Though, I must admit to seeing plenty of vintage hifi equipment on Craigslist fairly cheaply. Plus, it allows for concentration on speaker builds too. Definitely food for thought.
You know, I am really starting to see the sense in this. I was just trying to full fill the iPod-amp-speakers combination under the diy-hi fidelity umbrella.
Though, I must admit to seeing plenty of vintage hifi equipment on Craigslist fairly cheaply. Plus, it allows for concentration on speaker builds too. Definitely food for thought.
For bass extension the new FH Lite will challenge the TABAQ. Bass is still lite thou, not reproducing the fundemental but pretty good at giving the illusion of bass with good production of the 1st harmonic.
If you can stretch budget and size to FH3 with A7.3 you will be hard pressed to beat its performance.
dave
Dave,
The more I look into this, the more I feel the need to be open to options. Perhaps an old, heavy Kenwood,Pioneer,Sansui receiver should be enough to get me started. Craigslist is fairly stocked with options.
I was just hoping I could put together a whole set up that was compact and efficient. (T-amp-FH MK3 - iPod type set up.) I'm starting to get the drift that I may be better served rethinking.
The more I look into this, the more I feel the need to be open to options. Perhaps an old, heavy Kenwood,Pioneer,Sansui receiver should be enough to get me started. Craigslist is fairly stocked with options.
I was just hoping I could put together a whole set up that was compact and efficient. (T-amp-FH MK3 - iPod type set up.) I'm starting to get the drift that I may be better served rethinking.
There are lots of decent low-price options for amps that aren't too bad... what is your budget? If it is only $30 then a cheap LePai T-amp is hard to beat... more there are lots of other options. I'd give these the edge over most vinatge electronics, but if you get a good vintage piece for next to nothing at the thrift store, go fo it.
To maximize performance of your iPod make sure you use full-rez ALAC or AIFF files.
If your budget is low, consider a less expensive driver in FH3. If you plan carefully (a supreBaffle makes it easy) a series of better drivers can be installed. The A7.3 is currently given the leading candidate status (in most situations (not all)), but you won't get near realizing the potential without quite good amplification. But you may want to just get started and grow into the speakers as you go along...
The point is to enjoy the music.
dave
themadcapwoodwright,
No disrespect to vintage amps, but the new Class-D stuff is good sounding too, and for unbelievably little money...
Whatever you choose, if you decide to pursue this hobby for a some time, you are likely to try out quite a few options, and in the process having plenty of fun.
No disrespect to vintage amps, but the new Class-D stuff is good sounding too, and for unbelievably little money...
Whatever you choose, if you decide to pursue this hobby for a some time, you are likely to try out quite a few options, and in the process having plenty of fun.
The first SI T-amps were pretty bad, but this is 20 years later. I have to ask in all sincerity, have some of you actually heard a well built current class D amp? They are getting pretty good. BTW, the magic is on the chip. The difference between a $50 amp and a $150 amp is in the quality of the few outboard parts.
I think one of the problems is the advertising. Most of the mid-power class D amps are listed at 50w/ch x 2 @ 10% distortion. But the reality is that they are something like 30w/ch x2 @ virtually vanishing distortion.
Bob
I think one of the problems is the advertising. Most of the mid-power class D amps are listed at 50w/ch x 2 @ 10% distortion. But the reality is that they are something like 30w/ch x2 @ virtually vanishing distortion.
Bob
What about Amp Camp #1 ?
It's class A but with a switch mode power supply !
A little digital, if you like ( well, there are "comparators " ! )
The circuit seems rather easy and robust (...challenge )
)the preamp section might be better refined.
a "modern" chain would like to have the volume- the gain setting- inside the device attached to the amp.
But, oh ! TT, RTR, tuners, minidiscs, Cdp...decks !?!
It's class A but with a switch mode power supply !
A little digital, if you like ( well, there are "comparators " ! )
The circuit seems rather easy and robust (...challenge
)You should compare apples to apples, as you hear the sound of the full chain of apparels, and often in an integrated amp ( well, not the heavy ones...
)the preamp section might be better refined.a "modern" chain would like to have the volume- the gain setting- inside the device attached to the amp.
But, oh ! TT, RTR, tuners, minidiscs, Cdp...decks !?!
I think I mentioned the 0.53x Karlsonator with a PA130-8 before. That is a good size for a stand mount. However, my favorite standmount so far is a FAST 2-way with Scanspeak 10F on top and Dayton RS225-8 on bottom with 350Hz LR2, or time aligned BW1.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/273524-10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-ref-monitor.html
I'd like to point out that the industry standard for markup on consumer items in retail is 10x manufacturing price. That means an amplifier that costs $10 to be manufactured will sell in stores for $100. (Which is why things are made so cheaply these days).
The standard markup for direct-from-factory is 2x manufacturing price. So an amp kit from a company costing you $100 cost them $50 to make, and if you bought that same amp assembled from a store, it would of cost $1000.
This is the true value of DIY. And will probably help determine true value for used items. Also this industry is true across almost all businesses. A $30 dollar shirt cost $3 to make. The manufacturing plant sells the $3 shirt to a retail chain for $6, and the retail chain sells it for $30.
Hope that helps in seeing the value in DIY!
The standard markup for direct-from-factory is 2x manufacturing price. So an amp kit from a company costing you $100 cost them $50 to make, and if you bought that same amp assembled from a store, it would of cost $1000.
This is the true value of DIY. And will probably help determine true value for used items. Also this industry is true across almost all businesses. A $30 dollar shirt cost $3 to make. The manufacturing plant sells the $3 shirt to a retail chain for $6, and the retail chain sells it for $30.
Hope that helps in seeing the value in DIY!
I am using a pair of those right now. They are rather good. More output than one would expect for 5w.
dave
One more thing...
Here is my room...normal sized 15x12..there is my chair...definitely not in the sweet spot...off to the left is my dining room and kitchen...all wide open...14ft vault...nothing is perfect...
I drove a set of Maggies with a 10wpc EL84 amp...splendid with all the volume I needed...they filled the room as do these little FHLite w\85wk's being run by the lowest powered ICE amp...and looking at the specs...if you are looking for that spec...maybe 20wpc @ <.01%THD...
My point to this is...there is a line between want and need...figure out what you want and I can bet you don't need what you have!!
Here is my room...normal sized 15x12..there is my chair...definitely not in the sweet spot...off to the left is my dining room and kitchen...all wide open...14ft vault...nothing is perfect...
I drove a set of Maggies with a 10wpc EL84 amp...splendid with all the volume I needed...they filled the room as do these little FHLite w\85wk's being run by the lowest powered ICE amp...and looking at the specs...if you are looking for that spec...maybe 20wpc @ <.01%THD...
My point to this is...there is a line between want and need...figure out what you want and I can bet you don't need what you have!!
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