The first plot was from the makers of the digital module of said amp...the manufacturer of said amp posted a set of specs rating the amp at 100WPC 8ohm 1%TDH...
Stereophile reviewed the amp and posted it's measurements confirming the rating...
None of it is false but as you stated it's not as what you would call "accurate" being that everything is rated at a higher distortion level...
Just like the old Sonic T Amp...all the power ratings were at 10% THD!! IS that really useful?? No...it's not...
You have to take all these things with a grain of salt...just because a set of numbers states a certain spec...doesn't mean it's really useful...
Guys,
I am enjoying reading the opinions and discussion here, but we have gotten a bit off track.
Here's my opinions for MadCapWoodwright;
Amplifier;
Don't stress over the amplifier. Your average power into full range speakers will probably be less than 1 watt. Even the smallest solid state amplifier will have plenty of power for the signal peaks without getting anywhere close to clipping.
The distortion and hard vs. soft clipping concerns applies primarily to very low power amplifiers like direct heated triodes, musical instrument amps, and high power professional sound systems.
Speakers;
Pick your price point, buy some drivers, and make some boxes. My first venture into full range speakers was CHR70 into FH3 enclosures. If you will be running pure full range, I would recommend no smaller than 4" drivers. 3" works with a subwoofer.
Use a proven design at first. In my opinion, any of Scott Lindgren's designs (Woden design, MarkAudio Pensils, and Frugel Horns) will give good all around performance. There are other great designs out there, but those are the ones I have built.
Your first system will not be your last. Get started, then you can update and modify you system as you see the need or desire.
Finally, Have Fun. It is very satisfying to put together a thrifty system that sounds better than ones that are much, much more expensive.
I am enjoying reading the opinions and discussion here, but we have gotten a bit off track.
Here's my opinions for MadCapWoodwright;
Amplifier;
Don't stress over the amplifier. Your average power into full range speakers will probably be less than 1 watt. Even the smallest solid state amplifier will have plenty of power for the signal peaks without getting anywhere close to clipping.
The distortion and hard vs. soft clipping concerns applies primarily to very low power amplifiers like direct heated triodes, musical instrument amps, and high power professional sound systems.
Speakers;
Pick your price point, buy some drivers, and make some boxes. My first venture into full range speakers was CHR70 into FH3 enclosures. If you will be running pure full range, I would recommend no smaller than 4" drivers. 3" works with a subwoofer.
Use a proven design at first. In my opinion, any of Scott Lindgren's designs (Woden design, MarkAudio Pensils, and Frugel Horns) will give good all around performance. There are other great designs out there, but those are the ones I have built.
Your first system will not be your last. Get started, then you can update and modify you system as you see the need or desire.
Finally, Have Fun. It is very satisfying to put together a thrifty system that sounds better than ones that are much, much more expensive.
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Thank you, Sir for tryin' to bring things back down to earth..
This thread is a prime example of why noobs get the pants scared off of them! The fear of failure is already there and stuff like this just makes it worse! Just simply guide him to a good sounding system on the cheap, make him feel confident with he can actually do it, and he will grow at his own pace!
JMO..
So, back to the OP's questions, if he's not already been scared off
I'm with Bob, and Dave if you take the time to carefully read his earlier posts in this thread - the most recent generations of Class D amps offer exceptional performance - for my money, even better than the Class T (tripath chipset) amps of last decade, of which I own a couple. While it's shortsighted to disrespect /discount "vintage" SS amps out of hand, the latest Class Ds should definitely be on anyone's short list - particularly for a hardcore DIYer.
I currently own Kingrex T20, Topping TP30 and Yuan Jing TPA3116 integrateds, of which the TPA is my current favorite, and many members here will have their own recommendations of even newer / higher powered chips.
As for fullrange drivers and enclosure designs, there are certainly advantages to starting off with a simple single driver system, and there are numerous enclosure designs for virtually every practical candidate make/model, ranging from under 2 liter desk top / computer monitors, to as big as you wanna go.
I'm with Bob, and Dave if you take the time to carefully read his earlier posts in this thread - the most recent generations of Class D amps offer exceptional performance - for my money, even better than the Class T (tripath chipset) amps of last decade, of which I own a couple. While it's shortsighted to disrespect /discount "vintage" SS amps out of hand, the latest Class Ds should definitely be on anyone's short list - particularly for a hardcore DIYer.
I currently own Kingrex T20, Topping TP30 and Yuan Jing TPA3116 integrateds, of which the TPA is my current favorite, and many members here will have their own recommendations of even newer / higher powered chips.
As for fullrange drivers and enclosure designs, there are certainly advantages to starting off with a simple single driver system, and there are numerous enclosure designs for virtually every practical candidate make/model, ranging from under 2 liter desk top / computer monitors, to as big as you wanna go.
Also Lepai 2020,a weiner TPA3118 (still in the anti-static bag) and one based on the Yamaha chip.
dave
I was referring to units with which I've spent a few hundreds of hours of listening time.
If OP is confused, the TL;DR of the debate is one of religious manner in the audio world.
Some people believe in No global feedback (Time smear), some believe in feedback (lowers THD). Some people believe that <1% THD of any type is inaudible, others believe < 0.001% is inaudible; others believe that there are too many forms of distortion that we have no idea how little is detectable. We do know for a fact that distortion amplitude should decrease with increase in harmonic multiple (harmonic 4 should be lower than 3, 3 lower than 2, ect...), and that the higher the harmonic multiple, the more easily detectable/ lower perceived sound quality.
Some people believe that dielectric type on interconnects effect sound, others don't. Some believe that skin effect on larger speaker wire is audible, others don't.
A lot of things in audio are religious. Don't let the debates scare your adventure into the audio world. If hesitant, go with what both sides can agree upon. From what I've seen, all sides agree that TPA-based amps are among the best sound quality for the money right now.
Hope that helps clear up the argument! There are very little blacks and whites in audio. A lot of shades of grey, but embrace it. That's what makes DIY audio magic, experimenting with the unknown.
Some people believe in No global feedback (Time smear), some believe in feedback (lowers THD). Some people believe that <1% THD of any type is inaudible, others believe < 0.001% is inaudible; others believe that there are too many forms of distortion that we have no idea how little is detectable. We do know for a fact that distortion amplitude should decrease with increase in harmonic multiple (harmonic 4 should be lower than 3, 3 lower than 2, ect...), and that the higher the harmonic multiple, the more easily detectable/ lower perceived sound quality.
Some people believe that dielectric type on interconnects effect sound, others don't. Some believe that skin effect on larger speaker wire is audible, others don't.
A lot of things in audio are religious. Don't let the debates scare your adventure into the audio world. If hesitant, go with what both sides can agree upon. From what I've seen, all sides agree that TPA-based amps are among the best sound quality for the money right now.
Hope that helps clear up the argument! There are very little blacks and whites in audio. A lot of shades of grey, but embrace it. That's what makes DIY audio magic, experimenting with the unknown.
Off topic discussion has been split off to here --> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ever...d-meaningless-harmonic-data-what-matters.htmlThis is excellent reading. Thank you. I must confess, much of this discussion has gone way beyond my pay grade. Some would say the thread is hijacked, I don't mind because it gives me more to read.
Thank you also, for confirming my thoughts. I figured I was somewhat on the right track.
Thank you, Sir for tryin' to bring things back down to earth..
This thread is a prime example of why noobs get the pants scared off of them! The fear of failure is already there and stuff like this just makes it worse! Just simply guide him to a good sounding system on the cheap, make him feel confident with he can actually do it, and he will grow at his own pace!
JMO..
∆∆∆∆∆∆∆.............This!
Here's the ElCheepos I built. I sold my Jamo and Infinity units..
Nice work! I see you like cheap motor run caps, I use them too.
Madcap..
I'm a noob too. I'm learnin' but I'm still reluctant to put big money into better drivers or fancy amps. I'll do the cheap route and not disappoint myself too bad. I can still throw my total failures into a bonfire without cryin' too much..
Thanks X..
That's a big 'ol filter cap from a Motorola Mitrek base station power supply.(120000 uF @25 v) It'll keep my amp alive for 10-15 sec. after I unplug it from the cigarette lighter jack..
dwferg..
Those speakers are used in wakeboard speaker enclosures. (waterproof marine) Idunno if it's the dust cap or what but they sure sound good. For $12/ea., it was a good gamble..
I'm a noob too. I'm learnin' but I'm still reluctant to put big money into better drivers or fancy amps. I'll do the cheap route and not disappoint myself too bad. I can still throw my total failures into a bonfire without cryin' too much..
Thanks X..
That's a big 'ol filter cap from a Motorola Mitrek base station power supply.(120000 uF @25 v) It'll keep my amp alive for 10-15 sec. after I unplug it from the cigarette lighter jack..
dwferg..
Those speakers are used in wakeboard speaker enclosures. (waterproof marine) Idunno if it's the dust cap or what but they sure sound good. For $12/ea., it was a good gamble..
I was the same way about buying drivers to play with for a long time. I only bought Vifa TC9FD's for $12ea (sometimes on sale for $10ea). Turns out, they are one of the best drivers to use at any price. I also got buyout 6.5in woofers from PE for $5ea. Those are used in their popular bookshelf 2 way speakers. I did a lot with just those two drivers. I have built just about every possible alignment and speakers with those. Only recently did I start to use more expensive drivers. Coaxial car or wall speakers are an excellent way to play and get decent sound. Try one in a Karlsonator someday. You might be surprised how good it sounds.
I'm playin' around with crossover stuff right now. I amaze myself a lot! Haven't built any fancy enclosures (Yet) but I'll venture there someday. Did some simple measurements (Enclosure volume) and damping technics so I'm gittin' braver.
The wife thinks you guys gave me a disease because at times I'm so obsessed..
The wife thinks you guys gave me a disease because at times I'm so obsessed..
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